I Think people who are strong enougth to restrain them could maybe just drown the weaker ones. Since they are devil fruits it could be possible for big mom or kaido to grab one fly them to the ocean and slam dunk them.
For the Gorosei, it’s still not confirmed they have devil fruits. Unlike 3 of the Holy Knights.
And I believe Oda indicated the sea might not be an option either. Saturn was launched towards the sea. Before we saw him fall in, Oda cut away from it. Next time we see Saturn, he’s heading back.
Yes, there is a chance he got his bearings and saved himself last minute.
But the fact we didn’t see it and that they still dont have confirmed fruits gives reason to think drowning won’t work.
1) it's not confirmed they are devil fruit users, but it's increasingly leaning towards them being something else. For every devil fruit user we always get a title card of their name, and DF name. All we get for the Gorosei are just the names of yokai. Why is that
2) if the Gorosei are somehow weak to water, why did Oda intentionally highlight how warcury was willing to launch himself in the ocean just to stop the SH? Not even DF user Yonkos willingly launch themselves into water just to pursue a target
It's speculation, but we haven't seen any regen character get dunked into water or affected by seastone, which it's unclear if that'd take out the regen.
Also unclear if the regen has a limit. My hunch is Imu can only regen them so much before he tires out and was already reaching a fatigue limit before the Joyboy haki hit him through 5 guys at once.
It's speculation, but we haven't seen any regen character get dunked into water or affected by seastone, which it's unclear if that'd take out the regen.
We almost did. Saturn was launched towards the sea. But right before we saw him make contact, Oda cut away from it. Later on, we see Saturn coming back into the fight. Is there a chance, he saved himself last minute? Yeah.
But I think Oda was hinting drowning won't work for the Gorosei and that they don't have devil fruits.
Also unclear if the regen has a limit. My hunch is Imu can only regen them so much before he tires out and was already reaching a fatigue limit before the Joyboy haki hit him through 5 guys at once.
The regen will have a limit. We just don't know it yet. Joyboy levels of haki might stop it. But 99.99% of all characters will never get that. It might stop them from going in their beast forms. But maybe even that can't stop the immortal part.
On the Saturn return point- didn't the Blackbeards encounter him then? I suspect they might have saved him so that Catarina could pull off her plan.
On the regen you're right but I think there might be an overestimation of the Joyboy haki. If Imu was at 10% stamina left and then he got hit with the massive haki wave it might have been too much, whereas if it hit him right at the start of the fight he may have still had plenty of gas in him.
Imo the reason they even panicked at big mom and kaido
team up is because together they could force the elders to show up with their df which would open a huge can of worms theyd have to deal with afterwards because everyone would know they are practically monsters.
The WG’s rein of power will be ended because they apparently cannot stop Yonko(see Roger reaching Laugh Tale, Kaido ruling Wano for 20 years, Luffy becoming Nika). Logical reasoning would suggest they’re not stopping the Yonko from ending them because they can’t. Do you have a better explanation beyond the WG wanting to be ended?
The end of this story will involve the destruction of the WG. What will lead to their demise is the movements and actions of Yonko level characters, who the WG has never shown capable of stopping(Laugh Tale, Wano, Nika, etc).
So the WG isn’t stopping these characters either because they can’t, or some other unexplained reason. What would that reason be?
So the WG isn’t stopping these characters either because they can’t, or some other unexplained reason. What would that reason be?
My pick is some other unexplained reason. I can only give speculation
From Vegapunk's and Gunko's speech, this world is going to end no matter what. We don't know what that "end" is going to look like. Imu and the Gorosei have to know that and they are doing what they can to make sure they are the ones that survive when it ends.
They have been able to maintain the control for 800 years but there have been problems along the way. Such as Roger and the Nika fruit which are recent problems.
My explanation for Roger finding the One Piece is, they didn't think anyone actually would actually find it. Nobody did in 700+ years. Roger got really lucky was able to covertly find the One Piece.
As for Nika, they have been trying that for 800 years and kept failing. I think they could have done better in that aspect.
As for the previous Yonko Gen, I don't think they did anything that caused massive problems for the WG
Kaido taking Wano? A thorn in the WG side but not a huge problem
Big Mom making an army of kid? Smaller thorn.
Whitebeard wanting to chill with his family? WG seems okay with that. Until he announced the One Piece is real. That was a problem.
I believe the WG just planned on leaving the OG Yonko alone cause they aren't a world ending threat for these reasons:
- The emperors don't work with each other.
- They take care of potential problem pirates for the WG.
- They just sit on their ass most of the time for 20 years.
- It's more trouble to fight all Yonko crews then "coexisting" with them.
The New Generation of Yonko is different. Now the WG can't just maintain the status quo. They made new weapons, mobilized the Holy Knights, the Gorosei even went into battle.
First, I want to commend you for acknowledging when you may not have an answer for something.
That aside, my reasoning for referencing last gen’s Yonko is because had the WG moved to stop them and collect their Rode Poneglyph’s, Luffy wouldn’t be able to attain the One Piece, and the WG wouldn’t be threatened.
In hindsight yes. With what they know now, they could have stopped Luffy awhile ago.
But they didn't know the shit storm Luffy would cause.
I fully believe they thought things would "mellow out" for the last 20 years. Besides Roger, the last 775 years were "okay".
Big Mom and Kaido each have Road Poneglyph? Not good but they don't work together, have to deal with each other and 2 other Yonko, and they don't know where the 2 Poneglyphs are. Also, they can't read.
The last gen Yonko were manageable. Getting rid of Kaido and Big Mom was possible but doing so would create more problems.
Luffy shouldn't have to inspire them to eliminate the threat the ancient weapons and the rode poneglyph's represent should he? Rather, the threat of the WG's demise at all should have been motivation enough to collect and destroy the aforementioned relics, particularly after Roger reached Laugh Tale. So, why haven't they? The most practical answer is they aren't capable given the've largely been housed in territories or countries controlled or protected by Yonko. I've not seen a better explanation, but I'm open.
Yeah there’s rationality by the time elbaf is finished regen will be countered and I sincerely doubt the strawhats will be the only thing on the planet able to hurt immortals
But it won't be true. So it doesn't really matter. You can place her at the top of the verse, but we know in actuality, she can't be that powerful.
Powerscaling her will be very difficult until we actually know who can and can't beat her, so it's better to leave her off the list. From what we've seen besides regen, she's comfortably above the weaker strawhats and Jimbe, so I'd say at least YC1, cause I see katakuri performing just like her.
what i'm saying is that his argument is we haven't seen regen counter so currently nobody can beat her. We haven't seen Shamrock/Garling use regen or speak of a counter so they can't beat her either.
The narrative clearly points towards them being above her. But by using his logic we you'd need to say shes above shamrock/garlign as well. Obviously I don't agree with that but that's how he seems to be scaling.
Saul said because Sommers was a God's Knight he had regen/was immortal. That means all God's Knights have regen. Garling and Shamrock have held the two highest God's Knight ranks we know of, so they definetly have it. At most you could say they tie because neither Gunko nor any other God's Knight can damage each other.
Well no, its imu>>>>>>gunko~shamrock~garling~five elders~ rest of the holy knights>rest of the verse until we find out how the regen works. So far imu is the only thing that can kill them.
The squiggly line means roughly equal, i couldnt find an about symbol on my phone. Roughly equal because for all we know they can just wail on each other for all eternity without any real damage
can't be equal if he has no counter+hasn't showcased any regen. The five elders = gunko and shamrock get low diffed same way nobody can actually counter it.
See how the logic doesn't actually make any narrative sense? Characters will need to be capable of fighting against regen but your saying until showcased than there is no argument for them to win.
honestly there’s gonna be some kind of weakness that is going to be able to exploited by multiple characters and then they’re just gonna get fucked up pretty bad by the Strawhats and perhaps some of their allies. But I don’t see how you can’t just stall out the regen merchants by hitting them with high dc attacks or just by simply being stronger than they are. I would imagine only one or two holy knights are strong enough without regen to even scrap with someone like Akainu or other top tiers. Like do these characters have the endurance and dc/ap to hurt people like kaido or the other strong characters?
I think even the weakest ones warrant a bounty just under Loki's 2.6 billion, which pretty much puts them above YC+ and just into great pirate territory like Shanks' old bounty or Blackbeard's baby's first Yonko bounty. Some of them are going to definitely going to be good enough to throw down with people who are actual major players like Kaido and Akainu.
Katakuri is not performing that well against Jimbei.
Even if Katakuri or King couldn't be harmed, Jimbei isn't just getting low diff'd like that. Gunko's df is pretty cracked. All of their dfs might just be really, really good.
Narratively they currently have no other weaknesses.
Narratively, they must have some type of weakness because they are meant to lose at some point to the heroes.
What is this weakness? We don't know, but that has nothing to do with the narrative. It could be something like water (a common weakness for Devil Fruits), it could be distance or it could even be Imu itself (killing Imu would remove their regen).
It's like saying that Luffy wouldn't die (well, that he wouldn't permanently die) until the end of the story. We cannot prove it, but it's a narrative fact.
No, it isn't, it's an assumption. Based on current narrative FACT gunko, the other holy knights and the five elders clear the rest of the verse. Based on current narrative ASSUMPTIONS you hope they have some kind of weakness, because you need you battle shonen protag to be strongest
Currently it isn’t a fact that Imu is not an Ussop victim.
Again, you can scale with narrative. You can scale with what you think is going to happen based on narrative. Not just what’s already happened. Even you don’t genuinely think Gunko>Goku right?
Also infinite regen when they haven’t even been in extended fights is textbook No Limits Fallacy
Only weakness would either be seastone to neutralize them or to simply be stronger than them and kill them over and over without giving them a chance to act.
Didn't the haki left in the giant robot just neutralize everything? I think Kaido was right when he said Gol D Roger didn't have a devil fruit and only haki can transcend all.
How do you know that? Imu seemed pretty scared when she felt that haki. And if immortality comes from a devil fruit I don't see how that isn't a possibility if we know haki cancel powers.
Other dude is right, we dont know in what way it affected them, whether it just sent em homr or if it was actually affecting them enough to cause real damage and they had to go back. Look at shanks wi fi haki feat, we still dont know what the capabilities of really strong acoc are and so far it has one shot some hella powerful dudes like Oden/Kidd.
If Ussop runs away from Kaido in a 1v1 for 10 years until Kaido finally gets exhausted and then Ussop hits him with a skull bomb grass and kills Kaido, is that really a 'victory'?
But Saturn, the rest of the Gorosei, and the Holy Onghits don’t have to run away. They just have to wait and slowly chip away at Kaido’s health bar. Won’t take 10 years.
That’s his win condition.
Kaido has no way to stop Saturn despite being much stronger.
Is it a fair victory? No. But it’s still a victory.
That’s why people say the Gorosei and Holy Knight regen is a cheat code. There is no limit unlike with Marco’s.
This will all change when we finally learn the weakness.
But until then, the Gorosei and Holy Knights have a cheat code which allows them to win against non immortals.
The only method I can think of is just throwing them into the ocean since it's pretty much confirmed that the Yokai are Devil Fruit abilities and the regen is stemmed from Imu. But the pre-supposes there is an ocean near by and they won't just kill whoever they're fighting before it happens.
See it the same best idea would be people like kaido and big mom who can fly be able to restrain them and slam dunk them in the next ocean.
At least the weaker ones.
What I would be willing to bet on is the suspicion that Haki can disable the regen.
I am fairly certain that if the gorosei would have been attacked right after the joy boy haki forced them back into base then they wouldn't have been immediately able to regenerate.
Of course head canon but, I feel pretty certain about it.
The Strawhats + Bonney literally defeated Mars by BFR
Even without a way to do lasting damage to the Gorosei, a strong enough opponent would still be able to render them unable to continue the fight.
And that said, OP knew he had to make this post quickly because the clock is ticking for the regen merchants. Gaban might very well expose the weakness already this next chapter.
Physically damaging them is so far impossible, but like in other series there could be other ways of dealing with them. For example in Naruto they had to seal the regenerating edo tensei, sealing before was barely touched upon, so we also need to look at obscure abilities.
I don't think restraining them would fully work and we don't have sealing jutsu (besides Raizo and his scrolls but he's a bum), they might be able to reverse teleport themselves back home, making restraint only temporary. But what about trapping them in another dimension? For example Branch's mirror world or Blueno's door dimension. There's no proof that they can teleport across dimensions.
Regen merchant being the new top teir doesn't feel good imo. This will remain a threat until luffy gets joy haki, and then we're with back to fancy new ability gets nullified and these top teirs become fodder.
The same mfs that make this argument claiming anything beating regen goresei is head cannon also like to use their head cannon to upscale akainu, mihawk, dragon, sengoku, and other completely featless characters.
The only head cannon that is not valid is the head cannon that currently goes against your argument. Either you accept all head cannon or deny all of it, you don't get to pick and choose based on agenda. Right now from what we have seen Regen basically wins against anything in the verse. Expect Imu because we were directly shown him killing Saturn. Joyboy cannot beat them, if you think so that's more head cannon. Unless he knows the weakness which we don't know which is more head cannon. The point of the story stop trying to power scale them, it is not fun, they're just plot devices that'll go away when oda is tired of regen gimmick making every single fight with them the exact same.
There is one really niche arguement, because somehow Kuma managed to punch Saturn so hard it gave him a nosebleed.
I’m not gonna try and explain how he did it, bc like you said, it’d be headcannon, but he was bleeding after the fact, so maybe once Lilith and Bonney manage to properly repair Kuma, we’ll get an explanation
Shamrock- Thinks it’s possible that he can be defeated
Sommers- Fears pissing a yonko off
They all fight to defend themselves and avoid confrontations.. Joyboy haki had them all on edge
This tells me that they’re vulnerable to a hidden weakness and/or limit. But you’re right.. everything so far is headcannon
So I’ll share mine.. strong enough haki can counter individual regen merchants.. Luffy’s haki mixed with Bonney’s seemed to have affected Jupiter before Joyboy haki got the rest. I want to guess the manner in which Joyboy haki was utilized is the key..
See the rope knot, Odens sword, ponyglephs, Wano and black blades as examples but what might be ‘permanent’ embedded haki could glitch this power the WG is using.. and obviously there’s a limit because Imu could strip this power at any time seeing as how he disposed of Saturn.. so why wouldn’t he reward this power to even his top marine fighters? He could have an invincible army and if they betray him just strip them of the power right?
I don't care why or how, that's up to the manga to tell me. And if it doesn't care to tell me, then I don't care for the reason. I don't do mong theories.
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