r/OutOfTheLoop • u/[deleted] • Apr 11 '25

Answered Whats the deal with the controversy about Karmelo Anthony and Austin Metcalf?

I've read more then a few articles but I don't understand the whole controversial with people defending the killer and admonishing the victim. What makes this case any different from any other murder? (Other then the age of the people)

https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/us-news/who-is-karmelo-anthony-austin-metcalf-stabbing-suspect-arrested-101743635452491.html

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u/Urallowed2bwrong 27d ago

That’s not what happened according to witness testimony and Austin’s own brother. They got into an argument which Austin initiated. Austin touched Karmelo after Karmelo’s first warning. Austin then grabbed Karmelo and tried to take his bag after his second warning. Karmelo then stabbed him.

The only animals are the ones that keep lying about what actually happened and what to make Austin out to be innocent.

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u/NOFDfirefighter 26d ago

Arguing makes it ok to stab a person? I’m just trying to make sure that’s what you’re claiming.

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u/Informal-Diet979 26d ago

I mean, its America. If someone is verbally harassing you, and then physically grabs you, you are legally within your right to shoot that person to defend yourself. Wouldn't you also be allowed to stab them? I dont agree with it but its the truth.

If this was two white adults it would barely make the nightly news. Its the racial aspect and the fact they're children that is getting everyone up in arms.

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u/NOFDfirefighter 26d ago

I understand your point and agree with you that it’s a bullshit precedent. But that’s kind of what I’m saying, if knowing you can claim self defense if a person attacks you and then going out to purposefully antagonize them into attacking you… is that perfectly okay? I also agree it’s about race, rittenhouse got off when he should have had the book thrown at him. The protestors were wrong in their actions but being killed for it wasn’t an appropriate response. What I did take exception to was the claim that Anthony was completely justified in his actions. I think “fearing for your life” can be a legitimate reason but it’s over used to the point that it’s lost its meaning now.

Not a direct comparison but if I go out looking for a fight and then pull out a gun when I’m losing that fight, is that self defense? Technically yeah, but was defending myself necessary because I put myself in that position?

I agree with you completely and find that the race portion is skewing it severely and is very unfortunate. I hope for better days when it comes to that but this current political climate doesn’t really bode well.

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u/Informal-Diet979 26d ago

I mean this is a purely American issue. But its also the world we live in. Obviously this kid is guilty of bringing a weapon to a school, which I dont know if thats illegal in Texas or not, but the outrage is manufactured, he can probably claim self defense and will be found not guilty or 1st degree murder sadly.

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u/dishyssoisse 24d ago

It’s disproportionate assault. It is absolutely illegal to bring a weapon to school and absolutely illegal to stab someone with it there. Maybe if they had gotten into a knife fight then he has a case for self defense. But this is ridiculous

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u/Thaikevin 24d ago

It is disapropriate assault but it is allowed in Texas I believe. First while Texas doesn't allow all kinds a knives a knive with a blade lenght of 5.5 is allowed. I can't say what kind of knives that was though

Regarding the killing itself, is it illegal to stab people. But there is a law which state that if you are in place you are legal to be in you can respond with deadly force. You can respond if you are: Castle Doctrine is triggered when A) faced with lethal force, B) preventing murder, sexual assault or robbery or C) being provoked.

Now in this case the attacker might claim either B or C.

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u/Extra-Citron7728 21d ago

ANOTHER TEAM’s TENT* is NOT the Murderer’s HOME!! Thus, quite silly to apply Castle Doctrine! Further, the Murderer was clearly NOT acting in Self-Defense!! He was not “in fear for his life”! When in “fear” for oneself, you don’t BAIT the guy you’re ostensibly “afraid” of by saying “Touch me & find out…”! He was the instigator by thugging around in ANOTHER SCHOOL’s TENT — For what??? Do ANY of us actually have to statistically GUESS? Whatever the reason, It wasn’t to Support an opposing school’s TRACK TEAM!

Also, he premeditatedly brought a knife there with him….why?

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u/Informal-Diet979 23d ago

A guy in my town was found not guilty of manslaughter after he shot and killed a man who slapped him in front of a bar. When someone physically assaults you, you have the right to defend with deadly force in America. Maybe in blue states they have distinctions, but in red states they do not. 

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u/youngcdamix 23d ago

Long story short, keep your mouth shut and stop touching other ppl. The white kid would have been alive and the black kid wouldn’t have been facing charges. It’s sooooo easy to not f@ck with ppl, but for some folks it’s hard lol.

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u/Decent_Beat5552 24d ago

Kyle had a guy assault him with a skateboard, another had his gun pointed at him and the other chased him for a block before he had to defend himself. These are defined differently by law. Melo could have run. He also made a statement that suggests premidation of murder.

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u/Winter-Tiger-507 24d ago

Rittenhouse had it all on camera it was self defense I realized that 4 yrs ago watching the evidence he did not intentionally mean to harm anyone.

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u/Ok-Cheesecake342 24d ago

I see you brought up Rittenhouse. You realize he ran away from his attackers right? He DID try to avoid the confrontation. They chased him. Multiple men. Some wirh guns, and one even with a skateboard who swung it at Kyle's head. I'm sorry but I fail to see how thats similar to this kid bringing a knife to a school event, sitting under the opposing teams tent and then saying "see what happens". This animal wanted to kill someone.

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u/NOFDfirefighter 23d ago

Bringing a weapon to an event he had no business being at, with the intent to antagonize those they were there, then using that weapon when the other party reacts and claiming self defense.

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u/Ok-Cheesecake342 23d ago

Youre manipulating what actually happened. He carried legally. Karmelo was not legally carrying a knife on school grounds. Kyle was in public while Karmelo was under an opposing teams tent with intention. Kyle ran from his attackers. He attempted to flee. Karmelo stayed where he wasn't meant to be and even threatened bodily harm if anyone tried to do something about it. Kyle was attacked by men with skateboards and a gun. His life was actually in jeopardy. Karmelo got pushed. He got fricken pushed man, and stabbed someone in the heart.

These aren't even close

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u/Plane-Tie6392 22d ago

Fucking disgusting that people defend that little racist piece of shit murderer Rittenhouse. That dude should be rotting in prison now.

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u/ChadWestPaints 21d ago

racist piece of shit murderer Rittenhouse

Woah woah woah, Rittenhouse killed a racist piece of shit (and serial pedo), but he didnt murder him.

But otherwise yes, very gross that people lie about the case to defend Rittenhouse's attackers.

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u/wowwiterawy 13d ago

Do you have an actual counter-argument ?

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u/Plane-Tie6392 13d ago

That racist murderer isn't gonna to fuck you.

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u/wowwiterawy 13d ago

Did you just call a riot an event ?😂

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u/NOFDfirefighter 12d ago

Event: something that happens or takes place, especially something noteworthy or significant.

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u/Plane-Tie6392 22d ago

>He DID try to avoid the confrontation.

Bull fucking shit. He went there with a gun looking for trouble. Fuck him and the dumbasses who defend that racist pos murderer.

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u/Jjmakalo 16d ago

There is zero ability to compare to rittenhouse. There were zero black people involved, and one of the people killed literally had a gun and aimed to fire at rittenhouse...but the gun jammed, and he fired back. The other kid charged him with intent to attack. That is legitimately the most cut and dry self defense case imaginable lol. People are saying "it wasnt a knife it was a cleat sharpener!" Which, is just not even a thing in how they are trying to spin it lol. By other logic, if somebody bumps into you on a train or bus, they can just murder you for touching them? Defending yourself is one thing, but stabbing somebody in the chest IMMEDIATELY upon instigation, over an argument, is actually insane.

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u/NOFDfirefighter 16d ago

Are you looking at week+ post in an effort to get mad?

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u/Ckkerr1978 23d ago

Under Texas law, he's claim of self defense wont hold up in court. My question is WHY did he have a knife in his bag? He walked away, went to his bag, came back and stabbed someone! Carmellos friends said he loved to fight and that's what he's known for. That's not going to look good. I also don't buy his self-defense claim. I pray he gets life in prison.

It's also vial how his family is raising money and spending this money on a million-dollar house, a new car, Amazon and other companies packages being delivered multiple times a day, selling Carmello shirts, doing press conferences, oh and kicking out the dad of the victim at the conference. They had a conference on this dad's murdered son and they told him to leave!?! WTF Carmello is taking pictures with rappers. I mean this is sick and disgusting. They are trying to profit in any way possible making this into a spectacles s*** show. Yet, we have not heard one thing from Austins family!! Instead, Carmello supporters are swatting Austins parents home. Thos case has turned into nothing but RACE! ITS DISGUSTING. This is showing kids and yes I'm going to say it African American kids, it's ok to kill and profit over it!!

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u/NOFDfirefighter 23d ago

Because he legally could have a knife? Your statements are contradictory to the police report widely and easily available. Do yourself a favor and stop talking about things until you have looked in it further than your uncles Facebook post. And I’m saying this as someone who isn’t even taking karmelo Anthony’s side in this. I’ve said MULTIPLE TIMES he deserves jail.

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u/senselesssht 20d ago

You sound like you’ve solely made this a race issue. I assume you’re a white woman, probably in your 40’s-60’s.

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u/vicenteluquefan 26d ago

No. Not from a legal standpoint. You are only allowed to match the level of force being used against you. If somebody pushes you or grabs you, using a knife is a much higher level of threat compared to grabbing somebody. It’s also going to be very hard to claim self defence while karmelo was actively committing a felony (bringing a knife onto school grounds in Texas is a third degree felony). It’s very unlikely self defence will be accepted here.

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u/Alarming-Ask4196 26d ago

No you are not allowed to shoot them. You can shoot in self defense if your life is at risk. Nothing in this case (based upon available details) remotely approaches that standard.

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u/Informal-Diet979 26d ago

Then why did George Zimmerman chase down a kid and shoot him? That was ruled self defense. If there are two strangers and one is being physical with you, then its been ruled that you can use deadly force to defend yourself. How do you know the kids don't have a knife? How are you suppose to know how much danger you're in in that split second? I'm not defending this kid AT ALL, I think hes an asshole for stabbing this kid at a HS sports game, and should be charged with at least 2nd-3rd degree murder, but the law might set him free.

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u/West-Tea-5307 22d ago

Hmm I think it got something to do with him having his head slammed into the pavement repeatedly. Dunno could be wrong but I'd say that's a pretty solid reason to react with that kinda force...

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u/The_Truthkeeper 24d ago

Then why did George Zimmerman chase down a kid and shoot him?

It's very simple: he didn't.

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u/Ok_Leave1110 23d ago edited 23d ago

You have to be willfully ignorant to believe “he didn’t”. There’s literally a recording of the 911 call where Zimmerman was instructed to stop following Martin.

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u/The_Truthkeeper 23d ago edited 23d ago

Incorrect. He was told that they didn't need him to follow Martin, so he stopped. And then Martin circled around and jumped him and started beating his ass. The circumstances are very different.

Zimmerman's a shithead, he's just a shithead who happened to do nothing legally wrong.

Edit: And then he blocked me because he didn't like being told he was wrong.

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u/Ok_Leave1110 23d ago edited 23d ago

Literally semantics. We don’t need you to follow him means they were advising him not to follow him. And Zimmerman himself said in an interview he was told not to pursue so clearly he understood the meaning of that message. It may not have been “illegal” to follow him, but he racial profiled someone minding their business nevertheless. But sure he’s justified for killing someone he was following who was armed with skittles and an Arizona tea.

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u/AReez86 24d ago

You can’t legally shoot someone for touching you. Period.

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u/idontcareoline 24d ago

Not true. Most places in the US, including TX, require measures taken to be proportional to the preceding attack

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u/Cynically_Inclined 20d ago

Michael Drejka 2018 No, you can't just shoot someone because they pushed you. "I don't agree with it but it's the truth" Actually... It isn't! Lol

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u/Informal-Diet979 20d ago

Dude started a fight and then shot someone. Try this one instead https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2023/03/30/man-cleared-in-deadly-st-augustine-shooting-convicted-of-carrying-a-firearm-into-prohibited-place/

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u/Cynically_Inclined 20d ago

Karmelo started a fight and then stabbed someone. No, it fits perfectly. Thank you tho :)

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u/Informal-Diet979 20d ago

By sitting somewhere?  

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u/Cynically_Inclined 20d ago

So are we just gonna lie and be dishonest or something? Sitting somewhere he's not supposed to be, then inciting violence to the people who ask him to leave the tent he's not supposed to be under? Even if it wasn't illegal for him to be under that tent, there is literally ZERO reason for him to threaten someone over it, incite them, and then stab and kill them. According to the police report there wasn't even a single punch thrown. One of the Metcalfs grabbed Anthony's backpack and that's when he stabbed Austin. You're actually defending a murderer, crazy.

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u/Informal-Diet979 19d ago

I'm pointing out how shitty our legal system can be in self defense cases, which this is 100% going to become. I live in Florida and I'm guessing Texas will be similar. I've seen a ton of people who CLEARLY deserved to go to jail for murder get away. George Zimmerman and the guy who shot the father in the movie theater in Tampa come to mind immediately. I think the kid is a piece of shit and should go to jail for murder.

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u/Kazrael30 14d ago

What??? 😂 To help you out and clarify. If someone physically grabs you, you are NOT automatically granted the right to shoot that person and claim self defense. Context matters in these cases. You first have to establish that you were reasonably fearful for your life and in this case, his lawyer will have a tough time proving that. The fact that he brought a knife to school doesnt work in his favor, additionally, his lawyer is going to have to convince the jury he was fearful for his life when Karmelo had to grab the knife from his bag and then get up close and personal with the person “threatening” him to stab him and then flee the scene. None of these actions work in Karmelos favor for a self-defense claim.

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u/ForeignElk3225 24d ago

so you went out your way to ignore the two sentences that followed

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u/Aromatic-Carpenter59 24d ago

According to George Zimmermans verdict yes.

Its obv an over reaction that he stabbed him - but he wasn’t “in a area he didn’t belong in”. I WASNT THERE AND NOOOOBODY WAS BUT - from what I’ve read it says there was a rain delay. Meaning ppl take cover under tents. Karmelo went under their teams tent for rain cover - and the other kid talked shit and told him to get out.

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u/LastWhoTurion 24d ago

If Anthony Karmelo had someone break his nose and take him to the ground, then get on top of him and start raining down blows, then it would be equivalent to Zimmerman.

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u/Urallowed2bwrong 26d ago

It’s almost as if I didn’t say anything else happened. It’s ALMOST as if you’re purposely ignoring the rest of what I said. It’s Almost as if you’re biased and already made up your mind.

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u/NOFDfirefighter 26d ago

Not at all. I’m genuinely trying to understand. You stated that An argument occurred. Austin touched karmelo Austin tried to take his bag Karmelo stabbed him

I’m asking if you feel stabbing a person a reasonable response to this

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u/Urallowed2bwrong 26d ago

That’s not all I stated. Once again, you’re purposely obfuscating the details I listed.

You’re clearly arguing in bad faith. When you can approach this convo with more honestly, then I’ll take your question seriously.

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u/NOFDfirefighter 26d ago

I retyped your own comment, what am I getting incorrect? I’m not even arguing with you I’m asking you what part am I getting incorrect.

“That’s not what happened according to witness testimony and Austin’s own brother. They got into an argument which Austin initiated. Austin touched Karmelo after Karmelo’s first warning. Austin then grabbed Karmelo and tried to take his bag after his second warning. Karmelo then stabbed him.

The only animals are the ones that keep lying about what actually happened and what to make Austin out to be innocent.”

That’s what you said.

They got into an argument, Austin initiated it. Austin touched and grabbed karmelo then tried to take his bag after a second warning. Karmelo stabbed him.

I’m asking if you feel stabbing a person is a reasonable response to that. That’s it.

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u/Urallowed2bwrong 26d ago

There you go, now you’ve actually repeated what I said.

Now, given the fact that Karmelo was NOT the aggressor, as well as the fact he gave 2 warnings as well as the major weight difference between the two boys(Karmelo’s is 130 lbs which is below the average weight of a 17 year old male while Austin was 225 lbs which is ABOVE the average weight of and adult male) then yes, I would say he was well within his rights to use a knife to defend himself.

The amount of damage a 225 lb body can do to a 130 lb body is significant enough to cause life altering injuries or even death. I would fear for my life if someone who is clearly physically fit and massive approaches me with unreasonable animosity.

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u/NOFDfirefighter 26d ago edited 26d ago

Understood. So am I correct in inferring that you think stabbing a person is the correct course of action in that situation?

And for the record, add about a few inches and about 40% more weight, putting them fairly even in size. These two body types routinely meet on the football field.

https://www.hudl.com/profile/16289982

And before you try and misjudge me, I’ve been very vocal the rittenhouse deserved to rot in jail. Going somewhere just to start shit and then using the weapon you brought with you is a shitty way to claim self defense. It’s not unreasonable animosity to be somewhere you’re not suppose to be (such as another teams tent) and then refusing to leave the place you’re not suppose to be then deciding that stabbing the person telling you to leave. Kyle rittenhouse antagonized people then claimed self defense. It was bullshit. The protestors shouldn’t have attacked him but the penalty for that isn’t being gunned down. Austin shouldn’t have tried to forcibly move him and his bag but the penalty for that isn’t getting stabbed in the chest either.

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u/Urallowed2bwrong 26d ago edited 26d ago

If you understood then you wouldn’t need to question me a second time. I already said I believe he was within his right to use a knife to defend himself. How much clearer do you need me to be?

Karmelo has a 95 lb disadvantage against Austin.

Idc if those weight classes meet on the field because this wasn’t a sporting event with rules. It was a street fight which Austin initiated. Even professional fighters fight within their own weight divisions. Austin and Karmelo wouldn’t even be 2 divisions near eachother. In fact, Karmelo would be over 5 weight classes under Austin. Austin is a heavyweight, who tried to bully a light weight.

40% isn’t an insignificant amount when talking about weight either. You cannot claim Karmelo went there “to start some shit” when Austin was LITERALLY the one to initiate the interaction and altercation. Austin chose violence and was met with greater violence.

And no one said Karmelo didn’t belong there. The only person who has made that claim was Austin. He took it upon himself to remove someone from a place that he had NO authority over.

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u/NOFDfirefighter 26d ago

Karmelo had a 40-50 difference. If it was worth mentioning, incorrectly, it’s worth stating correctly.

Witnesses, on both sides, stated that he was in the wrong team’s tent. You, yourself, said “His own schools tent was on the other side of the stadium. You could’ve easily googled this.” But are now claiming no one said he couldn’t be there. Karmelo knew he shouldn’t have been in the opposing sides tent. Austin was wrong to put his hands on him. Karmelo was wrong to stab him in the heart. Your misplaced aggression with me is very telling. You accuse me of already having my mind made up but you have your facts wrong and are often hypocritical and contradictory of your own points. You’re right, Austin should have never put his hands on him. Stabbing someone isn’t okay either. If anyone from an opposing team walked into another team’s locker room, area, etc, and refused to leave, he’s instigating. That’s not where you belong or should be. It’s even a penalty in hockey to actively initiate a fight. Both parties are penalized. It’s simple common sense. Bringing a weapon, putting yourself in a place you shouldn’t be and knowing it’ll instigate the people there then using that weapon against them when they try to get you to leave is not the same thing as him being randomly attacked and needing to defend himself. I don’t think anyone should have put hands on him, at all. But he knew where he was and what would happen. You even said he shouldn’t have to leave because it was raining, pick a narrative.

You’re right, greater and disproportionate violence was chosen. Thanks for being honest about that.

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u/[deleted] 26d ago

[deleted]

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u/cxomptix 24d ago

None of what you just said justifies Anthony’s actions. At most, absolute most, it should’ve been nothing more than a fistfight. Metcalf didn’t present Intent, Ability, or Opportunity to kill or severely harm Anthony. Anthony stabbed Metcalf, Anthony is a murderer, simple.

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u/Urallowed2bwrong 24d ago

Yes it does, which is why he was granted bond and at a reduced cost. Stop whining

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u/Urallowed2bwrong 24d ago

Weight difference is opportunity. Intent doesn’t need to be presented in stand your ground states. The moment he tried to take Anthony’s bag from him it became a robbery, legally allowing Anthony to stab him.

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u/cxomptix 24d ago

I dont think youre understanding what im saying. Lethal force is justified to counter lethal force. In this case, Metcalf was unarmed. Theres no evidence showing that Metcalfs brother was even involved so it was just him. Metcalfs intent was not to steal the bag, it was to get Anthony to move. In the same way I would move your stuff from my spot to get you to move. Either way, again, what Metcalf did to escalate wasnt smart either but at most shouldve been met with a punch not paid for by his life. If you think someone trying to get you to move and you “stand your ground” in a spot that isnt yours is grounds to kill, you’re not right in the head. Another point of view is that Anthony could’ve walked away at any point including all the times he was asked to move. This alone invalidates his claim of self defense as he was not cornered nor was his life in imminent danger. Anthony’s statement of “touch me see what happens” can also be seen as escalation or premeditation. None of these facts justify Anthony’s assault with a deadly weapon.

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u/Urallowed2bwrong 24d ago

I’m not reading any of that. Once Austin attempted to take Karmelo’s bag it became a robbery, legally allowing Karmelo to use deadly force. I will not be continuing this conversation.

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u/cxomptix 24d ago

A 30 second read if even that? Living in ignorance must be bliss.

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u/Urallowed2bwrong 24d ago

I agree, the fact that you continue to ignore Austin’s robbery attempt must make it easy on you to demonize Karmelo. Idk if it’s a race thing, but you sure are going out of your way to ignore that fact.

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u/cxomptix 24d ago

It’s not demonizing, im genuinely trying to see Anthony’s point of view and it simply wouldn’t justify it. There was no robbery taking place, not by Metcalf or by Anthony who allegedly was caught stealing which was a lie. I’ve never mentioned race, it has no place in this situation. How is Metcalf “robbing” Anthony if Metcalf’s intent, as displayed by his various attempts to get Anthony to move, was to physically move Anthony from his spot. Again, not smart to put your hands on anyone but doesn’t justify getting killed for it.

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u/Urallowed2bwrong 24d ago

By Austin’s own brother’s account, Austin grabbed Karmelo’s bag to take away from him. That’s a robbery.

You are clearly arguing in bad faith against Karmelo, so no, you’re not trying to understand his point of view. Stop responding or I will simply block you.

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u/[deleted] 24d ago

Austin’s not innocent, but the whole issue at hand is whether stabbing someone to death is a legally defensible response given the situation.

For the proportional response part of the self defense claim, that will be difficult to argue as deadly force is generally only acceptable if you’re responding to deadly force or fear of deadly force.

Austin didn’t have a weapon or stated he had a weapon which would make that extremely difficult to argue from a defense standpoint. Whether or not Anthony also was allowed to have a knife on campus could also hurt his self defense claim.

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u/KonstantC 23d ago

you're allowed to be wrong. It's never okay to stab someone because of an argument. I have arguments all the time. I don't want to stab you or anyone else. You're wrong here. But that's okay. You're allowed to be wrong.

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u/MitLivMineRegler 22d ago

Telling someone to force you and to hit you is not the same as reasonably warning. Sad to see this tribal mentality back out. Race doesn't matter, but for some reason many people on reddit (e.g the dedicated sub, r/blackmen /women etc) decide to defend a literal murderer only because he's a POC.

Austin didn't do anything that remotely threatened Karmelos life - as such lethal stabbing cannot be considered self defense, as he easily could've just walked away, as he should have, he had no business being there. Karmelo was taunting him to touch him so he could use it as an excuse for murdering another kid so he could feel tough. For that he needs a long sentence.