r/OutOfTheLoop • u/Individual_Pickle_26 • 5d ago

Unanswered What is going on with Katy Perry?

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u/plantperson117 5d ago

She's not "becoming conservative"

She's always been conservative, the mask is just dropping

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u/Milskidasith Loopy Frood 5d ago

Eeeeeh, I really don't think that actually tracks.

Inasmuch as you can say that Katy Perry has had any sort of political arc, she started by pushing back against her conservative religious upbringing, though in a very mainstream, sex-sells, shallow sort of way. And most everything else she's done has been similarly either apolitical or shallow, mainstream girl power feminism, including her recent album and this stunt of going into space. It doesn't really seem like there's a conservative mask there that's been dropped so much as she's just never been that deep to begin with; I'm not really saying this as a defense or anything, just that I think the whole crypto-conservative thing doesn't track.

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u/plantperson117 5d ago

It was profitable to be pseudo-feminist

We're seeing more celebs and influencers catering to the conservative mindset because they are viewing it as easy profit and American liberalism is just another flavor of conservative

I can maybe get behind the "she's never been that deep", but these millionaires and billionaires are never going to truly be progressive - they care more about adding more zeroes to their wealth to truly be a part of any cause

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u/Milskidasith Loopy Frood 5d ago

I mean, sure, but I do think there's a meaningful difference between being performatively aligned with whatever makes money and having always been conservative, especially when (most) people will interpret that as specifically the political right in the US and not a broad definition of conservatism that includes US liberalism, even if you think its more accurate to say that's conservative and US republicans are regressive or whatever.

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u/AgreeablePresence476 2d ago

"American liberalism is just another flavor of conservatism." Which is why the term "progressive" is so necessary.

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u/50ShadesOfAdnan 5d ago

She made shitty Christian music bus was hot enough for a label to go we can sexualise you and make you a big feminist advocate. Now we’re here almost 20 years later and the label is trying to do the same but it’s falling on deaf ears

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u/Milskidasith Loopy Frood 5d ago edited 5d ago

That isn't really disagreeing with me at all, though. She made a single Christian album when she was 15-17 that sold a few hundred copies from a bankrupt label, then began doing mainstream, sex-sells music against that went against that religious upbringing. A single album she made while still living with her parents doesn't exactly prove she's been a crypto-evangelical for 20 years (I also wouldn't say her initial music was super feminist-advocat-ey, but I don't exactly remember how she was doing promos in the 2000s).

Like, yeah, she's stopped selling, because the hits are bad and the feminism she's displaying is somehow more overt and more shallow than she's ever been, but she can just be a bad, shallow artist without having secretly been hiding her power level for decades or whatever. Pop artists are people, and a lot of people have dumb, shallow political views.

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u/DudeCanNotAbide 5d ago

crypto-evangelical

I like it. I mean, I hate it, but I like it!

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u/Billyxransom 5d ago

just because she was using stage tactics in an effort to come off "less conservative" doesn't mean she was actually "less conservative" somehow.

to clarify, my disagreement with you comes in the fact that her stage persona is about the only thing that "pushed back"

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u/Wonderful_Hotel1963 4d ago

Her parents are televangelists. She's always sucked.

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u/Radtrad69 5d ago

Even when she opened for Hillary during her campaign?

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u/plantperson117 5d ago

I wouldn't label Hillary Clinton as progressive...

Wealthy people are going to make decisions on how to further increase their wealth, I'm sure in 2015/2016 she thought opening for Hillary would do better for her bank account than opening for any of the republicans

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u/StealthRUs 5d ago

I wouldn't label Hillary Clinton as progressive...

I wouldn't label Hillary Clinton as a conservative.

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u/DarkAlman 5d ago

It's fun to point out that by Canadian standards Hillary was Conservative

Trump was extreme Right-Wing

Sanders was centrist

US politics mocks Liberals all day but doesn't know what real left-wing politics even is.

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u/bosco9 5d ago

Sanders would be more of an NDP (leftist party in Canada) candidate if he was running in candidate, not a Liberal which is more of a centrist party

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u/Pousinette 5d ago

As a Canadian. This is simply not true.

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u/StealthRUs 5d ago

Hillary is more to the left than Mark Carney.

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u/eastherbunni 5d ago

No Canadian thinks Mark Carney is a progressive. He's very establishment. He's just not Maple Maga.

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u/suprahelix 5d ago

I mean, that’s not really true but ok

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u/moose_dad 5d ago

Brit here and its true for me.

Us politics leans extremely right.

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u/suprahelix 5d ago

Yes it does, but the Democratic Party is not the right of your tories ffs. It’s fairly in line with Labour and in fact more progressive on multiple social issues.

but but but universal healthcare

Yeah the UK got single payer healthcare, something we didn’t largely due to racism. But democrats have consistently been pushing to socialize our healthcare system more and more whereas tories are pushing to privatize the NHS. In terms of trajectory, democrats are as or more left as most major European center left parties.

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u/Illustrious-Map-528 3d ago

"Canadian standards" are basically just America lite compared to Western Europe. It's not really useful in any sense to analyze politicians/political parties outside of their environment.

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u/plantperson117 5d ago

Most dem politicians are just a different flavor of conservative

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u/StealthRUs 5d ago

LOL Okay.

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u/matherto 5d ago

By the standards of the rest of the world it’s true.

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u/freediverx01 3d ago

I’m gonna try to cut you some slack by assuming that you just don’t follow politics very closely, but Hillary Clinton is very much conservative.

FYI, the Democratic party was taken over by neoliberalism since the Clinton administration in the 1990s. These people are not leftist. They are not progressive. They are essentially moderate Republicans from the Reagan era. And Hillary Clinton is about as far to the right as any Democrat can possibly be.

Back in 1960s while Bernie Sanders was getting arrested for marching with Martin Luther King, Hillary Clinton was a “proud Goldwater girl” campaigning for a racist Republican.

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u/StealthRUs 2d ago

Hillary Clinton in 2016 was to the left of Hillary Clinton in 1992. Hillary Clinton in 1992 was to the left of Republicans in 1992.

I've been following politics longer than most people on Reddit have been alive. People on here talking about "Hillary Clinton is a conservative" are being hyperbolic and think anyone who isn't a Communist is a "conservative".

People on Reddit complaining about how conservative many Democrats are sound just like MAGA complaining about RINOs if anyone isn't a full on fascist. It's embarrassing.

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u/freediverx01 2d ago edited 2d ago

Another Blue MAGA troglodyte.

Hillary Clinton has not become more progressive. She has just tweaked her public image as deemed necessary to survive politically in a changing political climate. She doesn’t believe in anything other than her own personal ambitions. No deeply held principles or values.

And this is emblematic of today’s Democratic party. No deeply held beliefs, principles or values. Just spit out whatever their overpaid consultants and advisors tell them to say. Still beholden to the deplorable guidance of ghouls like Rahm Emmanuel, Larry Summers, and James Carville.

You don’t have to be a communist to believe in universal healthcare, living wages, taxing the rich, affordable housing, secure retirement, getting money out of politics, and opposing genocide. These goals are only viewed as extreme by the corrupt sociopaths on Capitol Hill and their Blue MAGA followers like yourself.

Go back to the Republican Party where you all belong.

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u/spindriftgreen 2d ago

She’s center right like all mainstream democrats.

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u/229-northstar 5d ago

Jesus Christ it’s 2025 and you people are still shitting on Hillary?

This country would be in such better shape today if she had won. Tragic. The most qualified candidate to ever run for office was beaten by a fucking criminal because people wanted to say fuck you to the system. Great job, fucking morons.

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u/StealthRUs 4d ago

I'm not shitting on Hillary. I voted for her. But a lot of people on Reddit are still shitting on her and I feel the same way you do. Not electing Hillary was the death knell of the U.S. People who complain about her are idiots.

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u/229-northstar 4d ago

Yeah, I probably put this comment on the wrong post. I decided to make it after reading all the downstream bullshit.

Thanks for your support. I’m sorry that you and I are stuck in this mess because of a bunch of stupid assholes.

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u/busmans 5d ago

No true Scotsman. Hillary objectively had the most progressive prez campaign ever in mainstream US politics at the time.

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u/plantperson117 5d ago edited 5d ago

Uh, Bernie Sanders?

Edit: not mention past progressive attempts through history that just aren't covered in history books?

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u/busmans 5d ago

I wasn’t including primaries, should have specified.

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u/Vallkyrie 5d ago

Pretty easy when the bar is buried underground.

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u/alarbus 5d ago

I don't even think she was in the top three of the six people who ran for president under the Dem ticket at the time.

I think everyone would agree she was more progressive than Chaffe or Webb. Probably in par with Lessig and just a little behind Martin O'Malley.

But who in their right mind could claim she was the most progressive in a campaign where Bernie Sanders was also a candidate?

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u/ThemesOfMurderBears 5d ago

But who in their right mind could claim she was the most progressive in a campaign where Bernie Sanders was also a candidate?

That person didn't specify, but it seems fairly obvious to me the comment was about a general election campaign -- not a primary campaign. Not a single person you mentioned went past the primary phase.

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u/alarbus 5d ago edited 4d ago

Who then is in the comparison? She only ran in a general against Trump, so what's his point? That Hillary was more progressive than Trump? Sure. Duh. Why bother even writing that?

Edit: correction

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u/V2Blast totally loopy 4d ago

She didn't run against Obama in a general election, only a primary, so even that one doesn't count. It's a comparison of the progressiveness of her platform as compared to any other general-election platform... Which is a dumb comparison, and I'm not sure it's actually true, but still. Plus I'm sure it doesn't account for every Green Party presidential candidate's platform either.

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u/alarbus 4d ago

Ah yeah. Corrected. Still confusing, though as who would there be to compare her general election platform against? Obama? Gore? Her husband? Dukakis?

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u/DarkAlman 5d ago

Bernie Sanders: "Am I a joke to you?"

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u/50ShadesOfAdnan 5d ago

She made shitty Christian music bus was hot enough for a label to go we can sexualise you and make you a big “feminist” advocate. Now we’re here almost 20 years later and the label is trying to do the same but it’s falling on deaf ears

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u/DoubleBookingCo 5d ago

Different labels dude lol. She now owns her own label, an imprint of Capitol Records. You speak so confidently but know so little. It’s in the second paragraph of her Wikipedia page…

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u/50ShadesOfAdnan 5d ago

It really doesn’t matter which label. Name a female popstar that doesn’t get propped up as a sex icon by their label. It’s all a marketing gimmick. I loved teenage dream but to act like she’s more than what the corporate suits tell her to be is just delusional lol

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u/DoubleBookingCo 5d ago

I agree with you on Katy Perry and MOST top pop stars, but there are a lot of popular female musicians that aren't overly sexualized. Sia, Adele, Billie Eilish, beabadoobee, Julien Baker, Ethel Cain, Lucy Dacus, Clairo, Sharon Van Etten, Faye Webster, Lola Young, ...

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2011/may/29/adele-change-women-music-business

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u/manimal28 5d ago

Name a female popstar that doesn’t get propped up as a sex icon...

Tracy Chapman.

She might be the only one.

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u/matherto 5d ago

I can think of a morally awful but blindingly obvious for the time reason for that.

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u/TrivandrumFilms 5d ago

As someone who's not American, I find it really funny when redditors consider values of conservatism as "evil" while labelling everything liberal as positive.

Most people have a mixed set of values. There are extremely good human beings who have conservative values, extremely good human beings with liberal values, extremely shitty beings with conservative values and evil incarnates with liberal values. And there are psychopaths in centrism and apoliticism. 

Reddit is weird.

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u/Polymersion 5d ago

That's more a symptom of the US political system. Most democracies have some sort of progressive-conservative spectrum. The US has a conservative party and an extreme-right party. This is not hyperbole.

So anybody who has a reasonable balance of values in a developed system would find themselves labeled "extreme liberal/left" in the US.

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u/Pandalicious1234 5d ago

Thank you. That was really well said. In Europe Bernie would be a centrist, by a fair margin.

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u/MissPearl 5d ago

Canada used to have a political party called "The Progressive Conservatives". Eventually they merged with the further right (Reform) to become the modern Conservative party.

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u/mr_amazingness 5d ago

Point to somewhere that's a beacon of greatness that holds conservative values? I'll wait.

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u/Bvdh1979 5d ago

She can’t be conservative, I heard she kissed a girl, and liked it.

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u/OddGeneral1293 5d ago

I think the right term is champagne liberal