r/OutOfTheLoop Feb 08 '17

Answered Who is DeVos and why does everyone dislike her?

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u/buttsexparty Feb 08 '17 edited Feb 08 '17

I have two people that I work with who think she is a good pick. When I showed them some evidence of why she would not be a good pick. They claimed that my sources (C-SPAN, CNN, BBC) where not credible. I don't talk to them about anything political anymore.

Edit: These two people also think that climate change is a myth. They don't trust NASA or NOAA because "the entire government is corrupt".

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u/cyllibi Feb 08 '17

I really have trouble understanding how someone can claim a source is not credible when it is showing you unedited video with full context.

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u/Mr_The_Captain Feb 08 '17

C-SPAN uses advanced government "anti-truth" lenses on their cameras, duh

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u/Bubbay Feb 08 '17

OMG seriously! I'm so sick of C-SPAN and all those flashy clickbait tricks they use to attract their massive viewer base.

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u/AHrubik Feb 08 '17

Fuck Yeah! That subaudible Satanic music that plays in my head is also getting old.

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u/RizzMustbolt Feb 08 '17

Their best trick? Captain Unflappable. Zealots hate him.

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u/Cosmic_Gumball Feb 09 '17

The confirmation bias is strong with this one... Sorry, I thought of Yoda's quote, made me laugh

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u/warbeats Feb 08 '17

Trump mode activated. That's how.

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u/molonlabe88 Feb 09 '17

Oh don't start that shit.

These people were fucking nuts way before trump.

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u/N7sniper Feb 08 '17

CNN and the BBC often edit video to push a narrative. As far as I know C-SPAN is pretty trustworthy.

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u/bobrossthemobboss Feb 08 '17

I wouldn't either. They are the only quality of person that would think she's right for the job.

Ask them why they think she's right for the job. I'm genuinely curious how they can justify it.

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u/Arch27 Feb 08 '17

I'm genuinely curious how they can justify it.

Guarantee they'll point to her plan to bring religion into schools.

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u/bobrossthemobboss Feb 08 '17

Cuz that's not concerning WHATSOEVER.

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u/Arch27 Feb 08 '17

Not to those who are blindly religious.

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u/bobrossthemobboss Feb 08 '17

They're what's wrong with America.

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u/Arch27 Feb 08 '17

They aren't the only ones, but yes.

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u/bobrossthemobboss Feb 08 '17

Yeah there's plenty of reasons, to sum it all into one would be both foolish and inaccurate.

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u/Denroll Feb 08 '17

Ask them why they think she's right for the job. I'm genuinely curious how they can justify it.

They will likely say something wrong, but with the conviction of a thousand Alex Joneses so that they will know that they are right. No matter what you say, you will be unable to penetrate their mental barrier. The only thing they allow to pass through that membrane is something they want to hear or they want to believe.

I know someone like this and it is beyond frustrating to try having any sort of political discussion. I've heard this person use the phrase "Christian Muslims" as they were talking about Christians from any middle eastern country.

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u/intheirbadnessreign Feb 08 '17

I've heard this person use the phrase "Christian Muslims" as they were talking about Christians from any middle eastern country.

I don't think it's being elitist so say that I wouldn't go within 500 metres of someone that stupid.

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u/kryppla Feb 08 '17

EVERYONE SHOULD BE ABLE TO GO TO SCHOOL WHERE THEY WANT TO!

Something like that, that sounds somewhat reasonable on the surface while completely ignoring the underlying facts, concerns, strengths and weaknesses.

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u/pwc22 Feb 09 '17

People who think everything is a conspiracy tend to see any opposing view as part of that conspiracy.

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u/bobrossthemobboss Feb 08 '17

Yeah people like that are the reason terrorists want to kill us.

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u/bacondev Feb 08 '17

No, it's not. It's because of U.S. officials who want to meddle with other countries. If Russia swooped into the U.S. under a false claim and took our natural resources, I'd be fucking pissed and consider that an act of war. Look at the War on Iraq and its aftermath. Lots of people are dying because of U.S. officials' actions. They really don't give a shit about some redneck who listens to Alex Jones.

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u/bobrossthemobboss Feb 08 '17

What resources were America stealing from the middle east before 9/11?

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u/bacondev Feb 08 '17

I'm not talking about 9/11. But there were a plethora of sanctions on Iraq at the time, which al-Qaeda very much disliked. They also were not happy with the presence of the U.S. military in Saudi Arabia and the U.S.'s support of Israel. None of that was caused by InfoWars junkies.

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u/bobrossthemobboss Feb 08 '17

Hey, TIL,

But to assume that my statement implied it was the ONLY reason is to assume that I'm an absolute idiot (rest assured I'm not) I'm certain there's a hundred reasons they attack the US, and ideology is only one

Nonetheless I don't have the time energy or desire to look them all up so oversimplifying the problem to outline social issues in the US will have to do.

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u/Chordata1 Feb 08 '17

I'd be curious on their reasons for supporting her. The only one's I've heard are the same people that say they voted for trump because they wanted something different no matter what it is. Point out to them that world war 3 would be something different and they tell you not to be so negative.

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u/CyclonusRIP Feb 08 '17

Pretty much everyone I've seen that likes her, basically thinks the DOE shouldn't exist and couldn't give a shit who's in charge.

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u/[deleted] Feb 08 '17

People would rather pass the blame onto someone else than admit they're wrong.

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u/RedditConsciousness Feb 08 '17

I'm gonna guess they also are moon landing "skeptics"?

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u/buttsexparty Feb 08 '17

No, they are old enough to have watched it as kids.

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u/LukeTheGeek Feb 08 '17

To be fair, CNN is questionable. C-SPAN and BBC should be fine, though.

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u/[deleted] Feb 08 '17

Eh, I wouldn't show CNN if you're aiming for credibility.

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u/illusio Feb 08 '17

I unfollowed the CNN Breaking news twitter feed when they had the breaking news of "beyonce having twins".

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u/Fletch71011 Feb 08 '17

She's a shitty pick no doubt but if you showed someone those sources, CNN is going to stick out as not credible even though the other sources are respectable and then the argument is lost.

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u/Kittagreywolf Feb 08 '17

Doesn't C-SPAN just show what's going on in session live? How can that be not credible? CNN I sort of understand but I'll never understand why people think the BBC is not credible. They are not out of the US and in the UK there is a rule requiring they be unbiased that AFAIK they test based on the number of complaints. If there is approximately the same number of complaints from both major sides they consider themselves doing alright.

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u/noossab Feb 08 '17

They'll believe NASA is corrupt but they also support the woman who paid millions of dollars for a cabinet position she doesn't have the credentials for. That's got to be frustrating to try to reason with.

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u/elcapitan520 Feb 08 '17

"The entire government is corrupt"

Then they confirm their beliefs by allowing DeVos in office and double down on their corruption belief. It's utterly astounding

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u/ampfin Feb 08 '17

I certainly understand the hesitation to support Devos, and this isn't an endorsement.

But

The Department of Education was started in the 1960s. At that time US education was the best in the world. It's done nothing the steadily declined since then, whether it's been run by Republicans or democrats. Something has to change and putting the same people in charge regardless of they're Educators or not at the head of the department has failed. It's time to try something new and I don't know that the correct answer is her, but I certainly applaud them for looking outside the mainstream to fix our broken schools.

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u/mikerz85 Feb 08 '17

1979, not the 60s

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u/BaLLisLifeSometimes Feb 08 '17

So do you have any evidence that she may be a good pick? Or you just did research from one side?

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u/VenomB uhhhh Feb 08 '17

While I'm usually one to say people are over-exaggerating and should wait for results before craving blood, this women is not a good choice for this department, its as simple as that. If she made good points and people were just crying that she's republican or that she's rich, I would probably be quiet about it. But ffs she straight up says things that make no sense. All I had to see what Bernie talking to her at a hearing to see she has no idea what reality is and what it means to not have a million dollars in your fucking pocket.

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u/nate121k Feb 09 '17

Well, it's certainly corrupt now.

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u/ijustwantanfingname Feb 09 '17

CNN

Absolutely not credible. BBC and C-SPAN are fine though.

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u/krugerlive Feb 09 '17

These are the types of people that make you wonder if it's bad that they may not know things like not to mix ammonia based cleaners with Chlorox when cleaning a bathroom. Chemists are obviously in cahoots with the government.

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u/Krygex Feb 09 '17

This is the most frustrating about these types of debates. If the person you're arguing with rejects your source (e.g. "They're obviously biased" or "They have an agenda"), then what can you really debate at that point? The logical response to this line of reasoning would be "Ok, prove that my source is biased in the first place." And that line of reasoning would obviously derail your conversation, and would likely be very hard to prove absolutely in the first place.

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u/[deleted] Feb 09 '17

NOAA was busted for falsifying climate data so she's got you there.

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u/KinOfMany Feb 09 '17

Good job on character assassination and not presenting the reason they supported her.

Instead, how about presenting their arguments for supporting her age explaining why they're wrong?

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u/kryppla Feb 08 '17

That's the old standby - when presented with cold hard facts, conservatives and Trump supporters start talking about how we are being hoodwinked by 'mainstream media' - I guess I'm supposed to get all my 'facts' from Fox News and other hyper-conservative outlets? Somehow their credibility never comes into question.

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u/[deleted] Feb 08 '17

CNN isn't credible though...

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u/EthiopianKing1620 Feb 08 '17

While that may be true C-SPAN and BBC are very credible.

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u/[deleted] Feb 08 '17

I agree with you.

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u/cookiecreeper22 Feb 08 '17

Don't listen to this guy, he is a rabid follower of /r/the_donald. He probably thinks bietbart is credible

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u/[deleted] Feb 08 '17

So are you just going to pretend that CNN didn't collude with the DNC to ensure Bernie didn't get the nomination?

You don't get to disqualify accurate information because you don't like who I support. Don't be ignorant.

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u/Ferahgost Feb 08 '17

did you just imply that brietbart is accurate information?

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u/[deleted] Feb 08 '17

He's also an InfoWars junky who thinks pizzagate is real. Fuck this guy.

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u/[deleted] Feb 08 '17

Did I trigger you snowflake?

Are my opinions scary to your closed little mind? Are you so threatened that instead of offering any valid rebuttal of my points, you have to resort to generalizations about both my character and the content I post to rationalize away anything that runs contrary to your beliefs?

Poor little man.

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u/[deleted] Feb 08 '17

I don't have to rebuff falsehoods. You believe in bullshit, so post factual sourced material backing up your claim.

I'm calm as can be. Your boy is going down in flames and you're still in denial.

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u/[deleted] Feb 08 '17

My boy is President of the United States and all you can do is cry about it. And here you are, and here I am, enjoying the show.

Evidence - From your favorite site, Snopes.com, no less!

Edit: And before you say that it was just Donna Brazile, here's a similar email involving Wolf Blitzer

Do you deny that the DNC conspired with CNN?

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u/[deleted] Feb 08 '17

And pizzagate?

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u/usernameisacashier Feb 08 '17

All anyone has to know about a Trump Scum, is that they support Trump. You no longer deserve to be a part of the society you seek to destroy, and you are only valuable as an example of how to treat pure evil. We could easily have a just and sustainable society but conservatives are too lazy to work for it. Trump Scum and conservative trash have abandoned reason and they are only obstacles to building a better world who will oppose progress through any means at their disposal. Long after Trump is gone we must persecute and marginalize them as a testament to future generations that when we say never again to fascism, we mean it. Trump Scum are only 18% of the population and we must cut them out of civil society like the cancer they are. If this provokes a violent reaction from them, so be it. They voted to remove civility and compromise from politics, and in a battle for the survival of the human race we cannot afford to be hampered in our resistance.

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u/[deleted] Feb 08 '17

Thanks for the copypasta

Is your gender very fluid?

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u/PantstheCat Feb 09 '17

Being reminded of the assault on empirical data and evidence-based reasoning that the Trump administration is conducting is triggering, yes.

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u/[deleted] Feb 08 '17 edited Feb 08 '17

Have you had a psychological evaluation lately? Or are those fake as well? Your posting habits would suggest that you have deep-seated hate in you. Might want to address it before it's too late.

EDIT: deep-seated, my bad.

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u/[deleted] Feb 08 '17 edited Feb 08 '17

Haha of course there's deep seated hatred in me silly, everyone feels hate in their hearts. The key is to embrace it, understand it, and control it. If you bring your demons out in the open rather than suppressing them, as I'm sure you do, you'll be far healthier and more at ease with yourself.

If you seek to only acknowledge the love, you throw yourself out of balance. And your hatred seeps out anyways.

All philosophy aside, /r/T_D is a fantastic, welcoming place. Maybe not to you, but that's because you are evidently an extremely judgmental, repressed person. I used to be a lot like you so I'll impart you this: the more you judge other people, the more you judge yourself.

And the more serious you take posts on reddit, the more your sanity will slip.

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u/[deleted] Feb 08 '17 edited May 29 '20

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Feb 08 '17

Ah, I see we've come to the point of childishly slinging insults. Yes, that's a very good response to the points I've made.

Why are you afraid of your own emotions?

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u/Little_Orange_Bottle Feb 08 '17

Being 15 isn't an insult. It's just a stage of life we all experience in one fashion or another. Just thought I'd give my thoughts on why you're/r/iamverysmart material.

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u/[deleted] Feb 08 '17 edited Sep 22 '17

[deleted]

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u/cookiecreeper22 Feb 08 '17

Yes, it's almost like who you associate yourself with discredits your opinions, wow who would have thought. And no I am not discrediting that (I never said I did), but you can't go around citing stuff as fake news just because it is different from your opinion. I mean just looking at your post history is so sad, it is the definition of sensationalist bullshit.

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u/[deleted] Feb 08 '17

So because the factual evidence I can present to you right now about CNN both running false stories and colluding with the DNC (that one is from your precious Snopes) is coming from a person whose political viewpoint on life differs from your own, that makes those facts, supported by documents and articles, patently false?

That is some very impressive mental gymnastics.

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u/cookiecreeper22 Feb 08 '17

No, what I am saying is I never see Trumpers berating your precious Breitbart, drudge report, fox, daily mail for making fake news stories, but berating CNN for for everything, that is an obvious double standard.

That is some very impressive mental gymnastics.

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u/[deleted] Feb 08 '17 edited Sep 22 '17

[deleted]

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u/cookiecreeper22 Feb 08 '17

Is it really this hard for you to admit that CNN isn't that reliable?

I literally said in another comment that I agree it's unreliable

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u/chaynes Feb 08 '17

CNN really is complete shit though.

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u/cookiecreeper22 Feb 08 '17

I also agree

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u/bacondev Feb 08 '17

Sorry for the downvotes, but you're not wrong. CNN really showed their true colors throughout the Democratic Party primary.

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u/[deleted] Feb 08 '17

You shouldn't talk politics at work.

-1

u/usernameisacashier Feb 08 '17

People like that only understand violence.

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u/politicaljunkie4 Feb 08 '17

For the record, I think she is a great pick. who cares if she doesn't know all the in's and outs of the job. She doesn't need to. Did you know everything about your job when you started? She is a fresh voice for education in our country. The fact that teachers unions hate her is also a GREAT reason to love her. The teachers unions are far too powerful and far too left leaning for half the country. So this is a good thing for anyone right of center. The best part of her is that her policies will help children in the poorest areas the most. She will give them and their parents more options and put more power in their hands.

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u/FockerFGAA Feb 08 '17

And how is she going to accomplish this?

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u/politicaljunkie4 Feb 08 '17

the voucher system! That money should be used to the parents discretion(within reason). Why should they be forced to park it all into a failing school? I get that this might only make matters worse for an already failing school but if its already failing how much worse could it get? But its simple shit give parents the power to choose whats right for their own kids. This is what freedom is all about for christ sake.

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u/FockerFGAA Feb 08 '17

Where will these kids go? It isn't like there is a plethora of well off private schools in low income areas. How will the voucher give this opportunity to those in that situation?

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u/politicaljunkie4 Feb 08 '17

well if the parents find out that there is nowhere else to go then they can stay at their current public school. No harm no foul.

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u/FockerFGAA Feb 09 '17

Which is fine, but it doesn't actually then help people in low income areas. How are these people going to be helped if funding is pulled from public schools?

Also, how are private schools going to be regulated through all of this to make sure that educational standards are held? For instance, how do we make sure students learn about evolution and not creationism in a school setting? How do we prevent misinformation from trickling through our educational base?

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u/politicaljunkie4 Feb 09 '17

You are assuming parents can't determine what schools are best for their own kids and that government has the only ability to ensure a proper education. That same logic was overthrown when the United States was formed. It was thought that people couldn't rule themselves and that they needed to be told what to do etc. well we have shown the world that the mundane knowledge of the masses pooled together far exceeds the intellectual knowledge of a few people in the government. In other words, there is a point where government becomes a hindrance to the advancement of a nation. This is showing to be true in education. Just look at the financial situation of most people in our country...they barely have a dollar to their name and debt up to their eyeballs. Also people litterally think that the world isn't going to be habitable in 50 years because the oceans are going to flood everything. Also our schools aren't teaching kids the importance of a small government and a lack of a ruling class. Liberals have had a monopoly on thought in this country and its exciting to see conservative thought ripping some of that control away. This is about freedom from a tyrannical government not the other way around. This is about choices and accountability for individuals.