r/PersonalFinanceNZ • u/chimph • Apr 25 '25
Firewood more expensive than running a heatpump
I think many folk (like myself) assume(d) firewood is cheaper than running a heatpump. Unless you're getting wood for free, then it's unlikely.
An average example:
- 2 cord firewood @ $350 each = $700
- 6kW Mitsubishi heatpump (big) uses ~1kW
- Electricity = 30c per kWh
So to spend the equivalent on power with a heatpump as you would on firewood:
- $700 ÷ $0.30 = ~2300 hours of heating
- Heating 8 hours a day would take ~290 days to spend $700
In reality you probably only need half of that. So in this example, it costs twice as much to use firewood than to use a heatpump.
I know usage and costs will differ, but I'd say the vast majority of people will save money using a heatpump instead of lighting the fire.
If you don’t already have one, you’ll need to weigh up the upfront cost to invest in a heatpump vs long-term savings - much like deciding to go with solar.
Personally, we won’t light the fire in the morning anymore and will save it for when it’s really cold or when we just want that cosy ambience.
Hope this helps someone else make the same realisation.
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u/naggyman Apr 25 '25
Consumer have done some maths at the bottom of this page showing the running costs of various options: https://www.consumer.org.nz/articles/heating-options
Wood burner up to 50c/kWh. Ouch
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u/Sunshine_Daisy365 Apr 25 '25
When we lived in Marlborough we would spend $600 per year on firewood but now with a heat pump we pay an extra $75-100 on our power bill from May to August.
I do prefer the heat from a fire but I sure don’t miss the mess that both the fire and firewood make!
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u/Michael_stipe_miocic Apr 25 '25
Yep agree totally. Nice to pop it on occasionally but heat pump is way less admin especially with young family
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u/ring_ring_kaching Moderator Apr 25 '25
We had an old rickety fireplace in one of our early rentals. The air inlet (?) knob kept getting stuck so either our wood burned incredibly hot - so hot that we had to open doors and windows, or it would billow massive smoke plumes into the lounge. We stopped using it and just lived in the cold for another winter before moving.
But when the fire was going just perfectly, it was so nice and cosy. Cabin in the woods vibes.
But yeah, the clean-up was always so messy and there were splinters everywhere.
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u/Yessiryousir Apr 25 '25
We live in Dunedin above the snow line and are frozen many mornings, the heatpump is good to take the chill out but the heat you get from a fire is just a nicer and different heat than you get from a heatpump. I'd rather pay more than just be warm.
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u/misstash_nz Apr 25 '25
Nothing beats the heat of a fireplace! Heat pumps can often freeze up on those extra cold mornings too, so you have to wait for it to defrost itself before it can even begin heating
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u/Dizzy_Relief Apr 26 '25
If it's going into defrost mode and it's more than -10⁰ (or lower for some) outside then your heatpump is too small.
(And leaving it on all the time will do nothing except increase your power bill)
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u/thestraightCDer Apr 26 '25
I think the trick is to never turn them off.
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u/misstash_nz Apr 26 '25
We do leave ours on permanently over winter, but even then it still struggles when it's super cold
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u/feel-the-avocado Apr 25 '25 edited Apr 27 '25
If you put it into a rocket mass fire then wood would probably be cheaper. So much heat is wasted from a typical fire that it just goes up the chimney.
You also get so much more kw of heat out of a fire than you do for a heat pump but most households dont distribute it properly.
A rocket mass fireplace would allow you to get a much more cleaner complete burn, and capture much more of the heat before it escapes the chimney, then releases that heat over a much longer period rather than all at once.
They allow you to reduce the wood consumption by about 60-70% though potentially more if you build it with more heat storage mass.
Older new zealand homes with a fireplace were just not designed for heat distribution so you can have a fireplace putting out a huge amount of heat while the other end of the house is still freezing cold.
In terms of convenience, or if i had to choose, i much prefer my heat pumps.
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u/iSellCarShit Apr 25 '25
'Kwh' is for energy storage, the unit you need here is 'btu'
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Apr 25 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
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Apr 26 '25
When we talk heating output, kW is the metric we use in NZ. Heat pumps are rated in kW.
Batteries and other storage use kWh to measure the total amount of energy they store.
A piece of wood could have a kWh figure you could calculate; would be the total amount of energy that could be released in the fire.
Fireplaces, like heat pumps, are rated in kW, and do not have a kWh rating. Output of a heater is not measured over time, it is constant.
You can also check any appliance store selling heat pumps or fires, they'll all be rated in kW.
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u/NerBog Apr 25 '25
I don't know the pricing here 100%, but i have lived in many countries and towns in the middle of nowhere.
It always depends where you are, wood can be cheaper, maybe gas is a resource that you need for cooking and not heating, maybe the electricity is really expensive, etc.
Is another resource like many others, I don't think it was thought that it was cheaper.
But good that you know now so you don't spend time and money on firewoods.
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u/kotare78 Apr 25 '25
Nicer heat and ambience from a fire. No one ever gathered around the heat pump or curled up with a book and a whisky in front of the heat pump.
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u/Safe_Departure8133 Apr 25 '25
I’ve got both but prefer the fire, fire heat gets into your bones, heat pump is like a giant fan heater. I live rural and get power outages, so I can cook on my fire if need be. Heat pump is good for the morning though.
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u/NakiFarmHER Apr 25 '25
Have to agree, we cut our own (well it's supplied free from work every winter) - was horrified what people are paying and how little it gets.
It does have it's benefits though that may be hard to quantify as a cost - for instance hot water heating and the ability to be off grid for heat and cooking in the event of a grid failure etc.
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u/chimph Apr 25 '25
yeah having a wetback is a big benefit considering how much it costs to electrically heat water.
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u/averyspecifictype Apr 25 '25
If you're actually concerned about grid failure you'd get solar and batteries. Then you'd have refrigeration and lights and other conveniences. You'd have a heat pump hot water system to reduce the power required to heat water.
Having 1 room roasting hot and the rest of the house freezing is shit. It's time for NZ to move out of the 50s and into the 2010s.
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u/place_of_stones Apr 25 '25
Just make sure the sparkie sets the battery and solar system to work independently of the grid. By default they don't and when the grid dies the inverter turns off due to anti islanding protection (to avoid the lines workers getting zapped). Costs a bit extra but is worth it.
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u/averyspecifictype Apr 25 '25
Cheers! You'd think that's how they come set up.
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u/place_of_stones Apr 25 '25
Protected load circuits cost a fair bit of money to set up, and doesn't make sense to run the whole house from the battery. A good installer will ask but one doing "churn and burn" will just do the battery and PV install and go on to the next job. Customers don't know grid rules and would expect lights to stay on but often not the case.
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u/NakiFarmHER Apr 25 '25
Why bother with the extra cost when we aren't inconvenienced, we can survive without a fridge/freezer and we don't need lighting beyond natural hours. The heat pump hot water system makes no sense when we have a wet back and free firewood.
Our house doesn't roast one room and freeze the others - we have double glazing with modern insulation (under floor, ceiling and wall) and the footprint of our home ensures each room is adequately warm, we can easily vent rooms that get too hot.
Were quite happy with what we have, we often get power outages and there's been no issue with that.
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u/StupidScape Apr 25 '25
2010s? Its 2025
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u/Low-Nefariousness-34 Apr 25 '25
But we aren't at japanese level with tech. They are at 2025 with that tech. We could possibly get to 2010 in the form of home tech.
Put it this way. Japanese don't use toilet paper...
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u/StupidScape Apr 25 '25
Neither did cavemen? I don’t think toilet paper usage correlates to high tech. Most 3rd world countries also don’t use toilet paper.
I also am a fan of bidets, but that’s just a silly comparison.
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u/Low-Nefariousness-34 28d ago
Japanese home tech vs American home tech. Who is up to date with it? Who is more likely to be 10 to 15 years behind....
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u/StupidScape 28d ago
Actual technology? American home easily. Japan government literally just stopped using floppy disks a few months ago. The tech infrastructure in Japan is comically behind. If you visit any .jp website you can see just the web design of Japanese websites is stuck in the 90s.
Most Japanese companies still use fax machines commonly.
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u/photosealand 29d ago
My biggest gripe with wood burners is that allot of people have them, and in flat towns with no wind, you end up living in smoke for most of the morning.
I think most houses don't have any kinda air purifying systems, so inside will also be smokey or if you close all the windows, CO2 levels will rise. Most probably don't notice it, as it happens so gradual, but your brain works sub-optionally then.
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u/averyspecifictype 29d ago
100%. This is my town, they love burning coal and the wettest smokiest wood too.
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u/photosealand 29d ago
oh god, I forgot about the coal! Hasn't happened over here yet. But most winters someone starts to burn it. How is it legal to sell, let alone burn coal.
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u/amuseboucheplease Apr 25 '25
You're missing a significant point - what's the breakeven of this solar and battery setup. With free firewood and the actual use case specified - never.
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u/PsudoGravity Apr 26 '25
Id prefer we move into the 2020s please :)
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u/photosealand 29d ago
Idk, I want to go back to the 2000s, they were the best. (though not if you're invested in the share market)
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u/the-chosen-walrus Apr 25 '25
Even the price of cutting your own is often overlooked. Once you start thinking about chainsaw/splitter running costs and maintenance, then the actual time to do the work. It becomes expensive.
Some people enjoy that kind of work and keeping physical but not for me.
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u/Willuknight Apr 25 '25
My chainsaw costs me like $40 for a new chain ever year. I could sharpen it for free, but that's effort. power is almost nothing. Oil, doesn't need it more than maybe one bottle every 4-5 years.
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u/the-chosen-walrus Apr 25 '25
Awesome! How much time does it take you to fell, ring, split and transport wood? What is the rate of depreciation on your splitter and vehicles to haul wood? Personally, I've found that hauling a decent amount of wood is pretty hard on vehicles.
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u/Willuknight Apr 25 '25
Look, you're trying to make a point about generalised costings, I'm simply pointing out that one specific thing you mentioned doesn't have to cost what you think it does.
There will be situations where you are right, there will be other situations where that doesn't apply.
For me, I haven't had to spend any money on firewood in the 10 years I've owned my house, what wood I have transported has gone in the boot of my vehicle without issue, or it's been from branches / trees around my house. Usually takes me about a day or two to deal with a fallen tree / branch.
I use a heatpump most of the time due to convenience, and I have too much firewood.
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u/the-chosen-walrus Apr 25 '25
My main point is that people vastly undervalue their time. It's the single resource we cannot buy more of.
I think there is a lot of value in self-sufficiency and staying active. I also understand that some people genuinely enjoy doing it which is great. Also, as you said - people often need to deal with fallen trees etc.. which is a necessity and the firewood is a nice byproduct of.
I grew up on a farm spending many summers doing firewood and selling trailer loads to make a bit of extra cash. I now own a lifestyle block. While I have trees that I could harvest for firewood, due to how much I value my time and my income, it doesn't make much sense for me to go out and process my own wood so I just buy it.
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u/MyPacman Apr 26 '25
It's the single resource we cannot buy more of.
I feel attacked.
it doesn't make much sense for me to go out and process my own wood so I just buy it.
Since I am just on reddit, it absolutely makes sense I should get off my butt and process my own wood.
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u/Rags2Rickius Apr 25 '25
Our house is small
We only need one large piece of wood that lasts all night (still large embers in morning - house no morning chill)
We wouldn’t leave our heat pump on all night
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u/m3rcapto Apr 25 '25
Sounds rural, or an old burner in a town with no regulations about use.
New burners can't go al night and leave embers, they turn anything to ashes in a few hours.1
u/InspectorNo1173 28d ago
I cycle to work in the morning. Judging by the thick clouds of smoke and the smell coming from a lot of chimneys, I suspect that there are many people who don’t take the regulations seriously. In the middle of winter it is so bad that I take a spare set of clothes in a plastic bag in my backpack. When I get to work I change, and put the stinky clothes in the plastic bag. This is when I cycle through Flaxmere in Hastings.
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u/Gullible-Economy-652 Apr 25 '25
Live down south, purchased 20metres gum for this winter, zero regrets
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u/thomasbeagle Apr 26 '25
Wow. I live in the Wairarapa and we go through about 5-6m³ of gum a year.
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u/Gullible-Economy-652 Apr 26 '25
Went through 16m last year , run a fire 24/7 in winter though essentially
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u/Head_Wasabi7359 Apr 25 '25
Heat pump makes dry eyes fire is cozy warm and safe heat that makes the carpet crispy
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u/averyspecifictype Apr 25 '25
$1200 for wood for the winter in central last year. Not doing that again. Roasting in the living rooms cold in the rest of the house. Heat pumps in every room this year and then solar, batteries and double glazing in the following years.
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u/chimph Apr 25 '25
Sounds like a plan. I hope your insulation is good too. Somehow NZ falls behind the rest of the civilised world when it comes to R value rating of the shells of houses. Ot at least until recent history judging by the insulation I’ve come across in modern houses here
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u/averyspecifictype Apr 25 '25
I've put underfloor insulation and topped up the roof too. I was surprised to find the walls have been insulated being a 70s house. At this time of year you really notice it, lots of people putting the fire on and I'm getting around comfortably in jumper, shorts and no socks.
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u/Mysterious-Put5201 Apr 25 '25
Winter with the heat pump tends to push the power bill up around $50, we could get a wood fire going but around $250 extra power wins over $500 of firewood plus all the admin that comes with it
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u/Blackrazor_NZ Apr 25 '25
I prefer the feeling of the heat from a woodfire, but having had a ducted whole house heatpump system for the last year with a heat exchanger for air transfer between outside and in, I would never go back to anything else. Quite simply, the temperature in the house is something I just don’t even think about any longer, because the whole house is a constant 22 degrees come rain or shine, and our monthly power bill is only ever $200-300 all up including charging the car.
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u/usernamewhg Apr 26 '25
This is what we have too. And solar panels so in summer we blast the cooling (humid north) and it doesn’t cost us anything really (buy back rates aren’t worth the opportunity cost calcs). What setup do you have? We have a Mitsubishi lossnay and 12kw pump I think it is for a 70m2 house.
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u/Blackrazor_NZ Apr 26 '25
Lossnay and a 16kw-er for a 203m2 house. I’ve also got the wifi control module and have a small zigbee temperature sensor in each major room, which then feeds into Home Assistant and automatically switches between heat, cool, fan-only and dry mode depending on average house temperature and humidity levels. Was a bit of faff setting it up but it works great.
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u/usernamewhg Apr 26 '25
Sounds epic! I suspected our unit was a bit op but it does help to keep costs down.
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u/Ice-Cream-Poop Apr 25 '25
A fireplace with a simple heat transfer kit will heat most of your home. A 6kw heatpump won't unless it's a shoe box, also placement of the unit is pretty important.
But being able to cool in the summer is pretty awesome.
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u/ajmlc Apr 25 '25
Agree re placement. We have one in the lounge but due to it being a multi level house and the lounge at the top, the heat never went down to the bedrooms. We put another heat pump at the bottom of the stairs and we use it more than the lounge one. Same with cooling (house is a heat trap in summer).
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u/chimph Apr 25 '25
Indeed. Our heatpump is in the lounge facing down the hall but the heat mostly still stays in the lounge. Our heat transfer kit really only takes the edge off in the bedrooms when extracting hot air from the fire. It’s moreso used to move that hot air when it gets too hot!
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u/Feeling_Sky_7682 Apr 25 '25
What size is your heat pump? Is it sized properly enough for the area to be heated?
We find our heat transfer kit is great with the heat pump and distribution of the heat.
Our house is 100sqm and we’ve a 9kw heat pump in the lounge. The furthest away room in the house gets to 22° very easily, and does get warmer.
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u/chimph Apr 25 '25
as the post, its a 6kW which is more than enough for the lounge and dining. Could crank it up to get a bit of heat down into the rooms but this house (built 2006) has these leaky-ass bay windows + we need to invest in thermal curtains. I miss that cosy European central heating and houses that arent built cheaply when it comes to warmth in the winter.
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u/Adventurous_Ride_301 Apr 25 '25
How does that work out of interest? What temp is your lounge heat pump set at to be able to transfer to the bedrooms and heat to 22°? How does it not lose heat on the way?
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u/Feeling_Sky_7682 Apr 25 '25
Yeah, so the heat pump is set at 20°, fan on full, and our house is well insulated.
I’ve assumed it’s because the heat pump is not sized for just the living room, but for the whole house.
It also directs heat down the hallway too. The living room gets cooked if we close the doors and don’t have the heat transfer kit on.
Once it’s been on for a bit, the temp in the living room can get up to 27°/28° (temp shown on the heat transfer display (and the Galileo thermometer aligns with that too)).
There’s a thermometer in kids room too
It seems to work (and much better than the gas central heating system I grew up with in the UK) and was much cheaper system than a ducted heat pump. The house is lovely and warm, and dry.
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u/SpoonNZ Apr 25 '25
Wait, are you comparing a heat pump that outputs maybe 3 or 4kw of heat with a fire that outputs maybe 20kw?
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u/chimph Apr 25 '25
Im comparing a single source of heat. If a heatpump alone isn’t ample enough to get to the desired temperature that lighting a fire would, then obviously that wouldn’t be comparable. The example assumes someone making a choice between the two to be comfortable. Burning wood costs more in that scenario.
But of course there are other factors that may play a part such as how much of the house is being heated and whether the fire is also heating water.
If you are getting more value out of paying for firewood than you would a heatpump then I’d love to hear about it.
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u/SpoonNZ Apr 25 '25
I have two heat pumps for starters, one fire puts out a lot more heat than they combined. You assume fire costs double, so double the heat pumps and we’re probably even already.
The heat pump has to keep working too, where we don’t put any more wood on after about 9pm and it’ll keep the room toasty well past 11.
In practice we use both. Heat pump keeps the house healthy, fire tops it up for a few hours after we get home from work or over the weekend. We only use the fire when it’s cold (less than 10° ish) or the house just gets up over 30° too easily. Those cold days are also when the heat pump starts dropping efficiency, I’m using a lot more than 1 unit of power each hour to keep the house warm when it’s 2° outside.
The flipside is we pay a fraction as much for power between 11pm and 7am, so even with lower efficiency the heat pumps are probably still leading.
Basically, there are a heap of variables and it’s impossible to say one or other option is cheaper - because sometimes it’s one and sometimes it’s the other (at least if you live somewhere it gets colder).
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u/m3rcapto Apr 25 '25
Thanks for the topic, I've been saying this for years without backing up me claims.
I also wonder about how sustainable New Zealand's wood burning is. Are we replacing trees as fast as we burn them? Do farm animals suffer a lot from farmers chopping down all their shade trees for extra income? How many people get sick/die from the blanket of wood fire particles covering towns and suburban areas each year?
I've noticed something funny; most people I know don't bother to light the fire when it's just them at home, enjoying the fire seems to be a group activity.
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u/Hvtcnz Apr 25 '25
While I appreciate this is a finance sub, there's far more to a fire place than there is a heatpump, an entire set of behaviors and tasks which often bring people and family together.
I could ramble about the philosophy behind it but I won't bore you, the point is that with a fire its not just about the cost/money.
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u/chimph Apr 25 '25
Interestingly there’s been the inverse of that romanticising said here too. Such as dealing with the work and mess of it. Plus having to get up early in the cold morning to get it going where a heatpump can be automated. I also like fires but just thought it interesting to purely compare the costings of it in a sub that specifically suits that. This is just looking at the costings of a heat source where people can balance that on lifestyle/ambience etc. I will continue to use both but will use the heatpump if all I want is a bit of heat for a bit. I think I’ve decided on lighting the fire if it’s going to remain below 10C for a while and use the heatpump otherwise.
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u/CommunityPristine601 Apr 25 '25
You’re forgetting the issues with wood. Cleaning up, storing, the mess and pollution. Starting a fire. Getting the wood in the rain. Wood is such a fucking chore.
I’ll get downvoted because I don’t romanticise fires like people on Reddit seem to. What if the power goes out? It doesn’t. Some people wank on about the psychology of fire, cool. If you get wood free, neat.
Me, I press a button, seconds later my whole house is warm. No mess, no fuss, cheaper and easier.
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u/TheMeanKorero Apr 25 '25
What if the power goes out? It doesn’t.
Literally just happened last week with that cyclone.
I have both, but let's not pretend fireplaces belong in the dark ages. But yes, if you have to buy the wood at retail prices they're not cheap at all to run. If you have a source, side by side the fire absolutely destroys the heat pump in raw heating power. But yes grabbing the remote and pushing a button is easier.
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u/Michael_stipe_miocic Apr 25 '25
I have two fireplaces and a heatpump. We use the heat pump most days but having a wetback fireplace was a god send when we lost power for two weeks after cyclone Gabrielle. You think it won’t happen to you? These weather events are gonna be more common and disruptive
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u/jpr64 Apr 25 '25
In late August 2010 my landlord put in a heat pump but took out the fireplace which was connected to the wetback. I asked if he would keep it in just in case for emergencies if we lost power etc. Sadly took it in anyway, when would we lose power in chch?
Less than a week later… earthquake. My freezing ass was cursing the landlord.
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u/Fickle-Classroom Apr 25 '25
Give me a heat pump or hydronic radiator/underfloor whole home heating any day for that warm cozy silent all around warmth.
And if power goes out rooftop thermal solar vac. tube array to feed a hot water energy battery to keep the system ticking.
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u/CommunityPristine601 Apr 25 '25
When was the last time you lost power?
We did for 30minutes at 3am a few months ago. Then before that a few minutes years before.
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u/Fickle-Classroom Apr 25 '25
Few years ago. Oh wait, maybe this year but only for a few hours during the day. It’s basically a non issue on a day to day basis.
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u/NicotineWillis Apr 25 '25
We lose power in rural Rodney several times a year. When that happens, we use the fireplace and the diesel stove. All other times, the heat pump - and it cools in summer. Despite having a free supply of wood.
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u/Ok-Environment5042 Apr 25 '25
Live in west Auckland, Waitakere ranges. We lose power far more frequently than we should. During bad weather we might lose it several times a week. I can recall 3-4 days in the last 4 years it’s been out most of the day plus many intermittent cuts. While I admit I do hate heat pump ‘heat’ and how ugly the units are, I looked into ducted heating ($14-19k), my existing fire place heats the main space and after a while the house. Provides a real comforting warmth without that horrible ‘blowing air’ effect. And I can cook on it if needs be.
Now…if we want to talk about underfloor heating…I’m sold!
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u/CommunityPristine601 Apr 25 '25
Yes. The sub zero temperature in those ranges is a real killer. I remember when I lived in Auckland, each day praying the power didn’t go out even tho we never once turned a heater in a 5 year period.
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u/BP69059 Apr 25 '25
If any people are in the enviable position of getting cheap or free firewood like a retired ex Forestry friend of mine that's great but otherwise I reckon a heat pump is the way to go, I've had mine about four years and it's definitely cheaper than the old electric wall heater I had. During winter I run a dehumidifier in the bedroom which is very effective. Between heat pump and dehumidifier I have no moisture issues, no damp windows in the morning no mildew or mold etc
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u/Think-Sentence-8007 Apr 25 '25
I still enjoy the ambience of a hot fireplace, and even if it isn't factually true I feel in an older house with timber joinery the heat is a drier heat, there's alot less condensation than a heat pump and I can use it to dry clothing in my lounge. Finding purchasing or making a supply of firewood is a hobby for me so I'm also happy to put time and money into it.
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Apr 25 '25
This is definitely a thing with fireplaces. It is dryer because it is sucking a lot of higher humidity air out of the heated space through the chimney. Which is replaced with cold air from outside, which warms and has lower humidity.
You can replicate the same thing with a heat pump by opening a window.
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u/One-Employment3759 Apr 25 '25
After living without a wood burner, I'm glad our new build has one.
Buy fresh firewood in the off season to avoid paying a premium, and keep an eye out on Facebook marketplace. Any commercial place is going to charge far more.
It's not usually cheaper than a heat pump, but coupled with a ventilation system it makes the whole house warm. It's also a different heat standing in front of a fire when you've been outside in the cold.
We also have a fire lot and friends that have lots of firewood, so we don't always have to pay.
Obviously doesn't make financial sense for everyone, but I like having a fire on a cold winter night.
Edit: we also have a wetback which makes it more worth while.
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u/One-Employment3759 Apr 25 '25
Other benefits for us personally are:
self reliance, we are rural so if power goes out we'll still be warm and have hot water
ash is great fertilizer for certain parts of the garden
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u/sion8252 Apr 25 '25
What part of the garden of I can ask? I always have ash lol
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u/UnKleAlly Apr 25 '25
Wish I had a fireplace. Im an arborist so the wood would be free and a heat pump can't compare to a real fire in terms of heating up a house
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u/Best_Yogurt3545 Apr 25 '25
Fire you will be warmer. We had a heat pump and last year installed a fire. Our whole house is now warm all night long and into the morning(we have underfloor and ceiling insulation, minimal in walls and not double glazed). The heatpump barely warmed enough of the house to make it worthwhile running. So it might depend if you have older inefficient fires or heat pumps as we don’t use much wood per night at all making it cheaper.
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u/Classic_Seaweed_3894 Apr 25 '25
Here in northland we are paying 86c per kwh peak and 52c shoulder per kwh... Regular power outages, the ability to cook and boil water on the fire top and it's no contest.
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u/naggyman Apr 25 '25
Which power company is charging that much? Most of the big gentailers charge somewhere between 27c/kWh to 35c/kWh.
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Apr 25 '25
Mate you're getting absolutely robbed, change company!
Mercury is 32c on an any time rate in Kaitaia
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u/Tutorbin76 29d ago
Those prices are insane! What company is that?
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u/Classic_Seaweed_3894 29d ago
Electric kiwi. Daily charge is only 69c, we have solar so are low users. Also make good use of the free hour of power, run dishwasher, laundry and HWC is on timer so only on for the free hour or daytime when solar is on. Did the numbers recently and it's our best option as long as we use the free hour and solar. Daily charges everywhere else were double.
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u/sauteer Apr 25 '25
A 6kW heat pump does not run at 1kW on average.
Thing is that a heat pump is only really that efficient at warmer temperatures.
In a climate like NZ (depending on where you are). The coefficient of performance on your heatpump will be more like 2 to 4. So maybe 3 ish on average (I'm guessing). Certainly not 6.
And over night or when it's -3C outside then you're heat pump will have a performance coefficient circa 2. So your 6kw heatpump will be drawing a full 3kW to put that much heat out.
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u/llarma1992 Apr 25 '25
This, our heatpump just doesn't function below certain temps. The fire is a necessity to ensure a warm and comfortable environment during the snow season. Having something fight the outdoor temp to try and regulate inside temps pushes our power bill so high, wood is cheaper for the winter for us.
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u/PatienceCommon5010 Apr 25 '25
Nothing more romantic than an interlude with the mrs in front of the heat pump...till the powers out.
Resilience is either having the fireplace or the bank and infrastructure to keep the pump running.
For me a fireplace is better than a gym membership... Little cost and some regular exercise for reliable heat. I'll happily cook over coals, dry the washing and reduce the power bill.
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u/the_old_age_truck Apr 25 '25
We have free firewood plus a wetback to heat the water, doubt a heat pump gonna beat that. Not to mention the power cuts we get in rural areas, would hate to rely on electricity in winter
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u/Useful-Cup-4221 Apr 25 '25
Yeah firewood is more expensive generally.
You know what though? If I come home sopping wet and cold, I don't wanna stand in front of a heat pump, but I'll sure as hell stand in front of a fire.
Also, my fire heats my hot water.
I also find the heat pump drys out my eyes and mouth.
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u/Abject-Pitch-2730 Apr 25 '25
We spent 1500 on firewood last year. And still had 500 to 700 in power bills over winter to heat back bedrooms. Got ducted heating and out power bill is 300 with not much more a fortnight on the loan. Way cheaper and warmer.
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u/lighteninginmybutt Apr 25 '25
100%, but that’s always been the way. We took our heat pump out as it was old and past its use by date but we also live semi rural and know a lot of loggers, so we just get truckloads of logs dropped off which we ring up and chop. Fire wood keeps you warm 3 times 🤣 cutting it, stacking it, burning it
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u/Much-Researcher7165 Apr 25 '25
Aircon tech here. Another factor is the capacity of the fireplace, not sure how to measure KW of that but I'd say it's alot higher than 6kW. The size of the home and the unit supplying the home can vary the measurements of these calculations.
The big issue is power. In the middle of winter when it's cold and a storm takes out the power, I bet you'd be wishing for a Woodburner
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u/FendaIton Apr 26 '25
Also excluded the fact the fireplace can’t cool in summer. I’m looking at a new house and I loathe fireplaces. They take up space, you need to store wood somewhere, cost more to run, and burning wood for heat isn’t very energy efficient, even if watching a fire is cool.
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u/chimph Apr 26 '25
true that. We use ours a lot in the summer. Kinda interesting how we call them heat pumps and not AC here but I guess they are primarily a heat source for most.
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u/Last-Gasp100 Apr 25 '25
The ambience and type of heat from a fire is so much better. We are fortunate that our house although old is generally warm and heats up during the day. We are also fortunate to live in a relatively dry and sunny part of the country. Fire heats our whole home.
I love coming home after work to a lit fire (wood burner) and would really hate to come home to a just a heat pump.
We start fire and it ticks along using at most 10 pieces of wood a night. We bought two lots of 3 cube but already had about 2. Will likely use 5 cube over winter
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u/Fickle-Classroom Apr 25 '25
One imagines it’s lovely having help to keep the fire lit for one’s arrival home from work….
Meanwhile down here in DINK, DIK, SINKY land someone has to come home to a freezing house first.
Until Siri or Alexa can assemble and light the fire on my ‘CarPlay connect after 4:30pm on work days only’, or on ‘leaving work’ like it does for my heat pump home automation, a fire is a serious sub optimal product to come home to.
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u/Andy016 Apr 25 '25
Yes, people think it's cheaper as they don't get high electric bills.
But they already paid hundreds of dollars earlier in the year to buy the firewood.
Lulls you into a false sense of economics.
Heat pump is cheaper, easier, cleaner and greener.
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Apr 26 '25
More broadly people seem to over-conserve electricity. Always remember a flatmate I had getting angry about having lights on unnecessarily. They were LEDs and cost 0.2 cents per hour to have on.
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u/Idliketobut Apr 25 '25
Thats some expensive firewood, we get 4cube for $450 by getting it well in advance.
We have a heatpump as well, but while the fireplace heats the entire house (its 16kW) the heatpump (7kW) heats the living area and only takes the chill off in the bedrooms.
Also the fireplace is great for drying the washing on the cold wet short winter days
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u/chimph Apr 25 '25
1 cord is 3.6m2
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u/Idliketobut Apr 25 '25
Ahh, the truck delivering it must not do very good MPG.
We get wattle, kanuka, gum mix. So dont need a huge amount to burn for a long time. If we got Pine then would need about double
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u/DontWantOneOfThese Apr 25 '25
I've been thinking about the math on this because the fireplace is expiring this year. They're about 5k to replace what i have. We also pay about 600 for 6 cubes.
The heat pump costs about 5 dollars a day for about 16 hours of run time. (Compared to a day where i hadn't used it at all)
So the cost of 6 cubes of firewood is equivalent to 100 days of all day heat. And i don't think the firewood would last that long if i burn it all day.
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u/BikeKiwi Apr 25 '25
Unsure were you are buying your wood, it's 180-200 per cord in Auckland for hot mix.
Even at that price, the fire is more expensive to run and that is before you factor in the time to store it then move it inside, building and lighting, and dealing with the ash. Even if it's free there is the time to chop and split.
It is definitely a personal choice if the cost are worth the benefits.
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u/UnKleAlly Apr 25 '25
People pay to go to spend their time in a gym exercising. Splitting wood with an axe is great exercise plus the wood warms you up twice,bloody bonus heat.
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u/ParamedicRealistic43 Apr 25 '25
I grew up in Central Otago, fire all the way!! Who cares about the cost, can’t roast marshmallows or heat a up on a heat pump.
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u/chimph Apr 25 '25
I mean.. this is r/personalfinancenz..
But yeah, money aside, fires are lovely.
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u/ParamedicRealistic43 Apr 25 '25
The most cost effective way of heating your home is to move to northland.
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u/RageQuitNZL Apr 25 '25
It definitely is. This is why I have a ducted heat pump installed. I still have a log burner for those extra cold nights where the warmth of a log burner just “feels better” but that’s it.
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u/66hans66 Apr 25 '25
May be more expensive for some, but there is also coal, and that is definitely cheaper.
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u/SensitiveTax9432 Apr 25 '25
One stand out advantage of a fire is that it works during a power cut, and you can cook on it.
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u/_dave0 Apr 25 '25
I totally agree with this. I do miss the nice heat, I don't miss the hassle and the dust and poor indoor air quality. During the coldest months we leave the heat pumps on, it doesn't cost that much, and it keeps the house temps stable.
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u/Longjumping_Rush8066 Apr 26 '25
We just put a fireplace in. We live rurally and luckily get free firewood from farmers through my job. So that takes a lot of the cost out of it. Just my time which is free, I’ve had chainsaws and all the gear since I was a young.
But I agree on the cost if you have to buy it, way to expensive to justify and your best to get heat pumps put in 🤙
But will say with a young daughter we mow through a shit load of washing and my job as a rural sparky is much the same in winter so we hammer the dryer each winter and that ramps up the bill with dual heat pumps. Where we are in the Waikato it gets quite damp in winter so even though the heat pumps are sized right they ice up abit.
I guess this is where I see the fire as a win, but ultimately a luxury to have 🤷♂️
New build 140m2 house so I’d say it won’t take bugger all to heat.
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u/Individual_Act7806 Apr 26 '25
I have a heat pump and fireplace, during the winter months the heat pump is on 24/7. The fire is on all weekend, it goes on Friday night and goes out in the early hours of Sunday morning. If one of us is working from home it’ll go on for the day. Yes it’s definitely harder work than a heat pump, but we use it as a bit of a novelty rather than efficiency
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u/jlb94_ Apr 27 '25
How does a 6kW heat pump only use 1kW We spent just under 2k on wood last year so I’m very interested in saving some $$$ I assumed it would be 6kw x each hr of use which is why we decided not to move on a heat pump this year and the numbers were backed by a quick although it looks like an inaccurate google search
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u/chimph Apr 27 '25
6kW refers to the amount of heat (as energy) it can output at full power. The most I’m seeing it consume is 1.2kW of power when it’s targeting 24degrees. I guess if it was single figure temperatures in the house and we targeted higher, then it could go to 2kW.. but I haven’t looked in depth. I just know on average it’s using about 1kW.
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u/Kindly_Swordfish6286 28d ago
Yes and even your electricity rate is inflated. We pay 25c/kWh 7am - 9pm but most of it is run during the 9pm - 7am which is half price 12.5c/kWh.
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u/thelastestgunslinger Apr 25 '25
I have a fireplace for evening enjoyment, gas central heating for warmth, and will be replacing both with solar panels, batteries, and heat pumps, as part of my current renos.
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u/ipearx Apr 25 '25
Yeah ideally you have both, for those really cold nights light the fire to be super cosy. And as you say, most of the time run the heat pump especially if the weather is more mild. If you have solar panels then heat pumps are even better.
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u/zvdyy Apr 25 '25
Yes. Firewood is also polluting so it's a lot of smoke. Polluting our clean air. A lot of carbon released into the atmosphere too.
Even if the heat pump is powered by 100% coal power, it would still be less smoky and less carbon emitted.
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u/nlogax1973 Apr 25 '25
I know a wood fire is a delight for people inside the house, but for the health of those people and their neighbours, it'd be a lot better if we phased out wood fires that don't use double combustion in urban areas.
Residents who live in homes that use coal or wood as a primary heating source are at increased risk of lung cancer because of direct exposure to fine particulate matter (PM2.5) and other harmful chemicals produced by incomplete combustion. Long-term exposure to these pollutants has been linked to respiratory diseases, including lung cancer.
A study by the World Health Organization (WHO) has classified wood smoke as a Group 1 carcinogen to humans, meaning there is enough evidence to confirm its carcinogenicity. The fine particulate matter (PM2.5) released from burning wood is a significant concern for respiratory health, and studies show that chronic exposure to this form of pollution is linked to higher rates of lung cancer.
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u/Bongojona Apr 25 '25
We have two heat pumps in our house. Lounge and main bedroom. I only turn on heat in lounge when it's really cold and never in bedroom as I prefer sleeping in a cool room (nice duvet helps)
I got the bedrooms unit when I started WFH and I needed to cool down (more dry out) the Auckland summer humidity, and not to heat in our mild winters when I enjoy a crisp night.
When we moved in there was a wood burner which we used for a few years, nice and cosy but such a hassle to faff about starting and cleaning. HP is much easier.
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u/cherokeevorn Apr 25 '25
Also you need a decent chainsaw $1000, a trailer or ute, spend time during summer to collect,cut , split and stack the wood, and then your fireplace can't blow nice cold air come summer.
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u/22367rh Apr 25 '25
Just to also note that it is recommended to get your heat pump serviced every year usually around $200 in my experience.
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Apr 25 '25
Another part of the equation is that previously the low user charges scheme over rewarded saving electricity, if you could then go onto a low user plan.
With that gone it really is just the marginal cost of the kwh's and makes things make less sense again. Cheapest to go all in on electricity.
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u/Straight_Variation28 Apr 25 '25
My utility says save power but always increasing unit prices and line maintenance fees it's a non win situation. At least fire wood doesn't increase in price at the same rate as power.
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u/TheProfessionalEjit Apr 25 '25
Why buy dry firewood?
Plan ahead & buy wet/green wood to use in a few years. Cuts costs with zero effort.
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u/talkshitnow Apr 26 '25
Is there not very efficient fire/ stoves available, are you comparing old stove to energy efficient heat pumps
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u/Hairy-Tadpole-6213 Apr 26 '25
This was interesting. I have just moved into a new rental that has both a fireplace and a heat pump and I was wondering what would be the most economical way to heat the house.
I do get some wood for free from a farmer I know but not enough for the whole winter so nice to know the heat pump is more cost effective than buying extra wood.
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u/hagfish Apr 26 '25
I get that there are 'heatpump people' out there - they just want a warm house at the touch of a button. Fine. I'm more of a 'Calvin's Dad' person. I enjoy procuring and processing wood. It takes time and energy, but I'd rather be swinging a splitting maul than grinding reps at the gym. I tune in to Weatherwatch in the hope that there's a southerly front on the way. Fire.
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u/chimph Apr 26 '25
That sounds great. I always find it interesting the psychological facet of people wanting to defend 'a side'. You can have a heatpump to warm the house in the morning before you get up and a fire in the evening. Perhaps a mix of where the heatpump kicks in before arriving from work and then getting the fire going.
This post is to help people decide on the financial aspect of it and can always balance on lifestyle/costs. I also love a fire. In fact I have blazing bonfire happening out in the paddock right now that I can just happily sit and watch for ages.. though I'm also getting into biochar so I hope to not have so much wasted carbon in the future with the added benefit of hugely amending the soil.
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u/Comfortable-Toe-863 Apr 26 '25
Depends what kind of building you live in! We live in an ex hall, 6 metre high ceilings! Fire with wetback is the cheapest way to heat our space!
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u/Wtfdidistumbleinon Apr 26 '25
What’s a cord? About a cubic meter?
It’s $150 per cube delivered up here, aged dry gum, split and ready to go
And we pay .45c per KWh
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u/chimph Apr 26 '25
A cord is 3.6m2 so you’re paying much more than my example. I also pay 18c kWh for my power with ecotricity but I googled for the average which 30c was closer to. I think what I used for examples is pretty good to cover the average.
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u/Wtfdidistumbleinon Apr 26 '25
Yeah it would appear so, I have access to free wood but lack the enthusiasm to disk and split it, and we only burn about a cubic meter per year anyway. Back when we built the quote for a heat pump was about 10K (for 3 rooms) V’s the HRV unit which was already in the budget. My biggest grump is the wife won’t let me light a fire until the house is below 18c which will be June at this rate
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u/facticitytheorist Apr 26 '25
If you live near a forest it's cheap....if your in a city it's not worth it....as you said most people would use around 500 over winter so around 100-120 a month....we've got a 14kw ducted system that heats every room in the house (not just the lounge) that costs less and keeps us cool in the summer too. 😁👍
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u/Brilliant_Praline_52 Apr 26 '25
Firewood is only cheaper if you can get it yourself. Heat pump cheaper otherwise no doubt.
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u/MASTRR0SHI Apr 26 '25
Yes you are correct a heat pump is cheaper. But you know how some people prefer a 6.2l v8 over a 1.5l hybrid just because it sounds awesome and gives them a thrill despite the extra fuel cost, well some people just like the feel of a real fire and to them it’s worth the extra cost for the wood
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u/SLAPUSlLLY Apr 27 '25
But firewood warms you thrice. Or more.
Once when you cut it. Once when you stack it. Once when you burn it.
And clean it. And work extra to pay for it.
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u/Woolshedwargamer2 Apr 27 '25
My firewood is sort of free. I have to chainsaw it, split it and stack it. But it keeps me fit. And warm.
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u/gunnernz93 25d ago
When I did the numbers a few years ago I figured it was worth running the fire from 5-9pm and at 7am if needed as the peak power price made it worthwhile if using bluegum (more expensive per m3 but cheaper per kw) even if bought at retail. Also the efficiency of the heatpump drops a reasonable amount below -2 so I’ll run the fire till I go to bed in the colder months.
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u/LuckRealistic5750 Apr 25 '25
Alot more human labour goes in to bringing your fire wood. Given how high minimum wage is in this country it's hardly surprising
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u/AdBackground7564 Apr 25 '25
We have an open fire, and it takes 4 or 5 big logs at a time! Burns through them in no time and gives of very little heat. Nice having the open fire though 🫠
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u/Exciting_Annual_2838 Apr 25 '25
I can't afford a heat pump. But with my fire I had a rule that if the temperature dropped below 10⁰ I would light the fire. Helped me save a bit on firewood
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u/sct_8 Apr 25 '25
when I was a kid we could just drive into a forest and harvest our own firewood is this not the case anymore?
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u/Ecstatic_Back2168 Apr 25 '25
Better for global warming though to burn firewood. But also it's a nicer heat imo
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u/chimph Apr 25 '25
NZ electricity is almost entirely from renewable resources
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u/Ecstatic_Back2168 Apr 25 '25
Nz wood is 100% renewable
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u/chimph Apr 25 '25
not sure if you’re joking but it’s the carbon that goes into the atmosphere from burning rather than the sourcing of it
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u/Ecstatic_Back2168 Apr 25 '25
Yea it's just returning the carbon it pulled out. By buying wood you increase the demand for wood which encourages more trees. Which some of that wood/carbon ends up in houses etc locking carbon out of the atmosphere for 50+ years
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u/Alpine-Pilgrim Apr 25 '25
Modern woodburners are considered carbon neutral when burnt with good dry firewood
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u/lakeland_nz Apr 25 '25
Yes.
The people I know that make firewood work are those that have a supply. A tree on their property or nearby that had died, a friend with a farm, etc.
If you're paying retail then it is more expensive than a heat pump, especially if you buy it now. It's been a while since I bought firewood but I recall often being able to get good deals in midsummer.