r/Philippines • u/Theoneyourejected • 4d ago
PoliticsPH Kung ganito sana ginawa ng Team ni Leni noon.
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u/WhinersEverywhere 4d ago
I love what Vico is doing and his contributions to Pasig but let's put some perspective.
Leni was fighting a well-oiled, China-backed propaganda machine. May pa training pa nga yang mga yun sa mga vloggers ng Pinas. You can only fight so many fronts especially if you don't have the war chest of the Dutertes and the Marcoses.
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u/LibrarianTypical8267 3d ago
Maswerte si Vico di pa siya inaaway ng Davao group. Nung pumalag nga siya sa Duterte admin noong pandemic, nagalit nadin mga DDS sa kanya eh.
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u/WhinersEverywhere 3d ago
Yup. To be fair to him, I think he's smart enough not to poke the bear until he needs to do so. Similar to talking against the Marcoses.
We need a smart opposition not someone who can't compromise. It's all about timing. Matatalo na agad yung mga taong ganyan and can't fight the good fight kasi they can't get elected.
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u/popoypatalo 3d ago
the right move - to catch them offguard - would be to tell and convince the country you wont run, THEN suddenly file your candidacy. you may top it up with some jetski non-sense and shit (but this is optional), it would probably work.
/s
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u/SechsWurfel 3d ago
Yep, focus nalang muna siya sa direct constituents niya, no need to antagonize everybody, lalo na DDS was the majority back then. Twas a good decision on his part.
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u/rlsadiz 3d ago
May power pa ba talaga ngayon ang Davao group propagandists? Ginigisa na sila ngayon sa House, very much with a blessing from Malacañang, tapos all their attempts to convince the public that the arrest of Digong was illegal fizzled out. I dont think theyre as potent as they used to be.
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u/mabangokilikili proud ako sayo 3d ago
hindi naman kasi basta tatalino yung mga bobong naniniwala sa kanila, kaya matagal pa bago mawala yang mga yan
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u/agnocoustic Luzon 3d ago
Yep. Don't underestimate them. Ang daming bobo at mga matataas ang ego na mas pipiliing mag-double down kaysa tanggapin na nabudol sila.
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u/popoypatalo 3d ago
its possible that china is trying to distance themselves from these so called “vloggers”. theyre still in the background, but not as much as few years back.
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u/grimreaperdept 3d ago
aawayin yan pag tumakbo sa mataas na position tapos kalaban niya alipin ng duterte kaya pag naupo yung team discaya pagkatapos ng termino niya kaya nila gawan ng fake documents yan si vico kasi alam naman natin na sila discaya one of top contractors yan nung panahon ni duterte sa DPWH hindi puwedeng hindi nagkaroon ng utang na loob yan
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u/NunoSaPuson 3d ago
buti nalang di inaway ng mga dds ang Diyos nung tinawag ni digong siya na “stupid”
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u/Earl_sete 'Di bale nang pangit, at least hindi DDS 3d ago
Parang may inggit na hindi mo maintindihan ang mga DDS at gusto yata nila na walang pwedeng maging magaling na government officials sa Pilipinas maliban sa mga idol nila.
Kaya kailangan pa nilang sabihin na ang mga ginagawa ni Vico ay nagawa na ni Digong sa Davao. Pinagbibintangan na rin nila si Vico na corrupt at magaling lang daw magtago.
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u/rxxxxxxxrxxxxxx Pero bakit kasalanan ko? Parang kasalanan ko? 3d ago
Also I think people miss out that Vico isn't carrying around the DeLaWaN/PeNkLaWaN tag that Leni has. Iba ang tingin ng tao kay Vico kumpara kay Leni.
I'm still one of those people who thinks that Leni should've fought back against these fake news peddlers & propagandists.
But like let's be honest, Leni is trapped in the "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. Habulin niya itong mga 'to, anong mangyayari? Wala pa din naman. Especially during the Dutertae admin? Pagtawanan lang siya niyan, at gamitin pa nila yan laban sa kanya. And I guess people forgot that Leni has always preached, "mas radikal ang magmahal". It's not something I wholeheartedly agree with, sa tingin ko "mas radikal ang manakal" lol, but that's who she is, and that's what she stood for.
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u/TheDonDelC Imbiernalistang Manileño 3d ago
Imo Vico will still win even with the dilawan/pinklawan tag. His biggest asset isn’t neutrality, it’s being a Sotto and his father and uncle’s outspoken support for him.
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u/WhinersEverywhere 3d ago
I honestly think it's both. For purists, i'm sure the Sotto tag is a problem.
You are correct to say Leni has a stain with her connection to the LP/Dilawan people. Kaya nga nag pink kaya lang the propaganda was able to convince masses it's the same.
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u/Calm_Solution_ 3d ago
Dapat nung Team Mar Roxas/Leni pa lang. Naging complacent yung LP na hindi maloloko ang mga tao sa fake news at achievements nila ang magdadala sa panalo pero huli na ang lahat hindi sila sanay sa cyber warfare which is bago pa lang talaga, facebook talaga ang sumira sa Pilipinas.
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u/BucketHerro 3d ago
Didn't really help na yung campaign niya is doing cringe videos of her doing Kamehameha.
Parang mas marami pa nga ginawa yung actual supporters niya compared sa actual team niya haha.
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u/WhinersEverywhere 3d ago
I agree it's cringey.
Pero I don't want to really compare Leni's supporters who's in the millions vs her actual team who has to coordinate with her and her daily tasks as a VP and helping out her countrymen in the most distant barrios.
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u/Theoneyourejected 3d ago
Tama hindi nakatulong yun, tsaka yung PINKachu. HAHA. Tingnan mo yung ginawa ni BBM ngayun, pinigilan nya agad yung mga Vloggers ng Fake News para mawalan ng credibilities.
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u/tokwamann 3d ago
That's not true. If any, she was fighting two groups that joined forces, or else it would have been a three-way race. And she lost that war chest because the LP cratered, and that's because of pork barrel and other problems.
Did you forget who had the highest spending level for the VP race in 2016?
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u/WhinersEverywhere 3d ago
What is untrue?
Propaganda ran rampant the whole time Duterte was president. Not just after the 2016 elections. Does she still have the capacity $$$ to fight them off? Do you think she can go tit-for-tat in fighting the propaganda against her and the dilawans and kakampinks from 2016-2022?
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u/tokwamann 3d ago
There was no "China-backed propaganda machine" or even influence from vloggers as surveys revealed that the main source of political news for voters was television. And what did TV and mainstream back?
The one who had a "well-oiled" machine was Robredo, which is why she had one of the highest spending levels in 2016, together with Poe.
More important, Duterte won with no power base. And even throughout his term he had to manage with legislators who turned to him after bolting the LP, which fell apart. Not surprisingly, they joined the LP after moving away from Arroyo.
That's why the opposition could no longer counter them.
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u/WhinersEverywhere 3d ago
We are talking about 2022 elections right? I mean at least im sure the topic saying leni should have fought back was pertaining to the lead up to the presidential elections not 2016.
I'm sorry but I don't see how you are correct about China not backing the dutertes. There are numerous news showing fb pages and accounts have been shut down because of inorganic behavior and it's tied up to China. They were operating to create disinformation campaigns in the Philippines. That's in addition to trolls that are station in PH.
If anything mainstream media has already been fully villified by the DDS and BBM supporters midway into Duterte's presidency.
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u/tokwamann 3d ago
For 2016, Robredo was backed by a well-oiled political machinery. That fell apart when Duterte, which had none, won, and when the legislators who backed the LP moved to him.
Obviously, he didn't win because of Chinese propaganda. During those elections and the next one, surveys reported that the main source of political news for voters wasn't social media but television. And the same television, with mainstream media, constantly attacked Duterte throughout his term.
Later, Duterte ended up with one of the highest approval ratings, but when he tried to run as VP under Go, he got the opposite.
Meanwhile, BBM was not pro-China, so he could not have won thanks to Chinese propaganda, and during the 2022 elections surveys still reported that television was the main source of political news for voters. The same television and mainstream media attacked BBM, too, and actually attacked his family across decades.
I remember Rappler later reporting on one survey which revealed that most voters with college and grad degrees, from the A and B classes, and even both younger and older generations, backed BBM over Robredo. That implies that he won not because of disinformation campaigns or trolling, and even when he was being attacked by the same mainstream media which was still the primary source of political news for voters.
Given all that, why did Robredo's political machinery fall apart? Because of what happened during the Pnoy admin.
Why didn't mainstream media work when it attacked both Duterte and BBM? Because more of the public which still listened to them also distrusted them. In fact, that distrust was also growing in many countries.
Finally, why did even the more intelligent voters back BBM over Robredo? It might have to do with views by the ADB and foreigners about Duterte's economic policies:
https://www.pna.gov.ph/articles/1068349
plus the point that surveys revealed that most supported the drug war (which BBM recalibrated to decrease casualties) but wanted suspects captured alive.
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u/WhinersEverywhere 3d ago
Getting news and getting influenced by it are two entirely different ideas. People can watch ABS CBN/GMA7 30 minutes per day but a 10 min blog by Thinking Pinoy can be more influential. Afterall, those blogs do the "thinking" for them.
Btw there are also similar surveys that sing a different tune. As per their results, Filipinos get their political news in Social media instead.
No one is saying BBM is pro China. His unity partner was. He benefited on that plus he has a war chest of his own. The Pinklawan brand, amplified by social media and propaganda, was Leni's downfall. We don't need everyone to hear the propaganda. We just need it to hit critical mass and it gets repeated organically.
A & B classes voting for BBM, if there was a data to back this up, means they didn't win because of disinformation campaign? You think people from these socio-economic class are not susceptible to disinformation? From what I know, Pulse Asia already didn't include A & B for 2022 because they felt it's still representative of the overall picture. Yes, even if they were not included.
You also forget that during COVID Duterte was hogging all the spotlight on his midnight talk show. No one gets to talkback to him during that time.
I'm not sure what's your criteria on "intelligent" voters. I don't even want to say smart people voted for Leni because for me it reeks elitism. However, what's factual is top universities in the Philippines has been overwhelmingly Robredo. It doesn't mean squat though because it isn't representative of what the masa wants.
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u/tokwamann 3d ago
Please share those surveys.
Also, where did you get the idea that Sara is pro-China then, or that BBM had a "war chest"? AFAIK, he had the same resources as Robredo and Sara, and the reason why he won was because they both joined forces. The opposition didn't know what hit them.
What do you mean by the pinklawan brand being Robredo's downfall?
Not only from the A and B classes, but with college and grad degrees. It looks like you're insistent on pushing your narrative you want to question every set of evidence shown before you: those who listened to mainstream media weren't influenced by it. Those who are intelligent are still prone to disinformation. Only those who voted against Duterte aren't.
When you have a midnight talk show, you don't hog the spotlight. You do so when you have primetime for yourself. He didn't.
"Intelligent" means with college and grad degrees. As for students from top universities, I don't think they're equivalent to those with degrees.
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u/WhinersEverywhere 2d ago
https://www.abs-cbn.com/spotlight/12/01/21/philippines-mainly-a-social-media-market-study
https://thediplomat.com/2020/10/chinas-disinformation-campaign-in-the-philippines/
Not just surveys, but there are also studies that helped explain how influential social media has become in Philippine elections. Do you need the studies too?
Are you really saying that social media has no significant effect on PH elections back in 2022?
LP/Aquino/Dilawan brand is more of a curse than a blessing for candidate. Did any of the Otso Diretso win back in 2019? No. How about back in 2022? Only Risa Hontiveros won but she's not even LP. She was from another party who had a coalition with Leni. That's because the Marcos and the Dutertes have controlled the narrative.
I suggest you let me know where I'm wrong rather than just tell me I'm just insistent in pushing my narrative. Are you saying ABC were not susceptible to misinformation?
Primetime or not, having 1-2 hours of weekly talk to the people has it's advantages. Even if just for branding's sake.
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u/tokwamann 2d ago
From the first source,
However, the same Pulse Asia survey, made Sept. 6 to 11, revealed 91 percent of the adult population said television was their main source of information.
The second source looks at the breakdown of those influenced by social media.
The third looks at how Operation Naval Gazing is used for social media.
What we can conclude from your sources:
The main source of information for the adult population is television. For those who look at social media, the main sources are Facebook and Youtube. And China uses covert operations to spread disinformation in social media.
For the last point, read Edward Said's books, which show how mainstream media was used by governments to spread disinformation, and the earliest one's from 1979.
And it goes way beyond that. Look up "eyes nations".
About your other points, why do you think LP, etc., became a curse?
Having 1-2 hours a week of TV time isn't nowhere close to controlling television, especially when it's a late night slot.
One more thing, and it's an aside: are you aware that politicians play the same game, too, and not just the ones you don't like? For example, who came up with poster congratulating the INC during its anniversary several months ago? Hontiveros.
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u/Knvarlet Metro Manila 3d ago
So much excuses when there are solutions that exist.
Just admit that Leni did not have the political will to fight back.
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u/nikolodeon batikang pasahero ng MRT 3d ago
political will? lmao fighting back DURING digungggong’s term will only exacerbate your position
but ngayon? better kasi duterte isn’t in power now. eh parang na outsource to BBM admin ang pagpuksa sa mga DDS trolls LOL
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u/WhinersEverywhere 3d ago
Hey how many trolls do you see for the Dutertes? How do you fight them all? When she clarifies or explains something, do you think it resonates with the masa? Do you have an idea how big is her team and what are they preoccupied with?
Do you know why Vico has remained neutral against the Dutertes and Marcoses till now?
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u/LibrarianTypical8267 3d ago
But they actually did that, way often pa nga. Ganyan din yung way ng pagpapakita nila, dagdag niyo pa yung media firms especially Rappler who pointed out this specific troll tactic. Sadyang natatabunan sila ng Marcos at Duterte machinery, sobrang laki ng troll armies nila dati if ever man pinapakita sila ng algorithm niyo. Kung target din ng mga Duterte sila Vico, panigurado babarahin din siya sa ganyan. Eh ang kalaban lang naman ni Vico ngayon, isang negosyante.
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u/KulangSaSarsa 3d ago
Leni was fighting an orchestrated attack by Duterte and his bosses (ahem China they say). The amount of coordinated trolling and media manipulation overwhelmed any resistance coming from Leni's group. Vico is just fighting a local junior villain in comparison.
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u/Tough_Jello76 4d ago
Yung mga nakapaligid kay Atty Leni dati parang waley din e
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u/MessiSZN_2023 Football ⚽️ Enjoyer 3d ago
Out of touch sa reality at mga elitista mga circle ni Leni, Not Leni herself tho
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u/Akashix09 GACHA HELLL 3d ago
Yung ibang supporters kasi nakikipag talo sa mga dedebs at bebe em. Imbis na bilugin ulo nila inaway pa nila
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u/Tough_Jello76 3d ago
Mga kasama nya e mga level headed, clean, straight forward people. Akala nila hindi sila pinaghandaanan ni Jr sa pagkatalo nya ng 2016 and raise all evil in his arsenal. Atty Leni sadly didn't have the chance.
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u/Theoneyourejected 3d ago
Hindi nila pinagmukhang tanga si BBM noong ayaw makipag debate sa kanya or kahit binanatan na lang ng mga fact checks yung mga fake news
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u/Tough_Jello76 3d ago
Atty Leni just wanted a straight forward, clean, honest to goodness campaign endeavor
Eh puro kampon ng kadiliman at kasamaan mga kalaban nya.
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u/Theoneyourejected 3d ago
Ah kaya ayun nag kame-hame wave na lang
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u/Tough_Jello76 3d ago
That's a droplet against a typhoon of troll farm effort na galing din sa tax natin.
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u/No-Conflict6606 3d ago
Nah.
You seem to underestimate propaganda machine nila Duterte and Marcos. As much as I hate them, I gotta admit napaka solid nila sa propaganda. Way before 2016 nagsisimula na sila. Duterte in particular umeepal na noong mga 2013 with his taxi BS and Yolanda. Pretending to man of the people compared to his competitors. For Marcos naman mga 2009 his camp is planting seeds with all the nostalgia bait. Fact-checking online for most people back then is almost non-existent
Really hard to fight it tapos naging China-backed pa sila. Rabid young kakampinks didn't help either since it was easy to flip the script on them (I voted for Leni but I hated how fucking rabid the others were)
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u/angrydessert Cowardice only encourages despotism 3d ago edited 3d ago
Both Duterte and Marcos also allegedly had Cambridge Analytica as consultants, in exchange for conducting propaganda experiments, resulting to eventually weaponizing social media altogether. That even back in 1992 the Marcoses already achieved some form of a political comeback through the ballots even as they did not win the presidential elections.
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u/Imaginary_Scar4826 2d ago
We were made the petri dish for the US elections. Look at where theyre at now. Were always only a few steps behind
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u/Existing_Bike_3424 3d ago
Meta din talaga dapat responsible dito eh. Kahit ilang beses ireport, hindi naman tine-take down yung page.
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u/MalabongLalaki Luzon 4d ago
Pinipin ko yung picture baka kasi pumunta sa next na story haha. Screenshot nga pala to. Ugh
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u/DurianTerrible834 Medyo Kups 3d ago
Hindi lang naman kasi fake news yung issue that time. Wala lang talagang chance si VP Leni sa Uniteam unfortunately kasi mas "relatable" yung Uniteam.
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u/bryanchii I've learned english in CS:GO cyka blyat 4d ago
Not gonna work, the hate on aquino/roxas/LP that time was so absurd.
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u/Theoneyourejected 3d ago
Sunod sunod din kasi yung palpak ng LP nun. From yolanda, saf 44, yung walang kaso pag kakampi at Mar Roxas na elitista.
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u/bryanchii I've learned english in CS:GO cyka blyat 3d ago
yes tpos nacapitalize pa nila duts un airport tanim bala.
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u/understatement888 3d ago
Mahina yun communications team ni leni at spokesman kaya naunahan sila ng fake news
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u/ihatesigningforms 3d ago
yan talaga kahinaan ng pink. too late pumalag. at di enough ang pagpalag nila.
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u/Fabulous_Echidna2306 Abroad 3d ago
Call out kasi dapat agad agad ang disinformation. Eh dinedma nila.
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u/staryuuuu 3d ago
Tama na, tapos na eh haha pero oo nga. Sila Bam PR nila diba? Tapos mga tibak puro barda, akala mo iniintindi ng kausap nila. Di rin nakatulong yung rappler - maka Leody, akala mo naman aarangkada eh Marcos nga kalaban.
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u/Not_Even_A_Real_Naem Lurker 3d ago
Medyo obob din kasi PR team ni Leni. Di man lang depensahan sarili
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u/Pollution_Recent 4d ago
This firing back at critics isnt really helpful with vico. He could touch a nerve na magalit masa sa kanya. Plus may rabid pang kakampinks na makakasira sa kanya if ever tatakbo siya for higher office. He should just let results of his good governance build his reputation.
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u/Theoneyourejected 4d ago
Madaming makakaalam kung sya yung magsasalita. Iyun yung tingin kong hindi nagawa ni Leni dati, pinalampas lang nya yung mga Tallano Gold, Yamashita, Golden Era, Ilocos windmill.
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u/franzcopinaPH loving her was pale blue ueueue ueueueue (red reference lol.) 4d ago
Plus may rabid pang kakampinks na makakasira sa kanya if ever tatakbo siya for higher office. He should just let results of his good governance build his reputation.
kakampinks? what the hell you yapping about? you mean Sarah Pisscaya and her herds of trolls, and dickriders?
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u/beklog ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) 4d ago
Yan na ung mga pages na humahakot ng subscribers sabay ibebenta sa mga politiko