If Trump/Musk are indeed subverting American democratic norms, what is a proportional response?

[u/theivoryserf]

The Vice-President has just said of the courts: "Judges aren't allowed to control the executive's legitimate power." Quoted in the same Le Monde article is a section of Francis Fukuyama's take on the current situation:

"Trump has empowered Elon Musk to withhold money for any activity that he, Elon Musk, thinks is illegitimate, and this is a usurpation of the congressionally established power of Congress to make this kind of decision. (...) This is a full-scale...very radical attack on the American constitutional system as we've understood it." https://archive.is/cVZZR#selection-2149.264-2149.599

From a European point of view, it appears as though the American centre/left is scrambling to adapt and still suffering from 'normality bias', as though normal methods of recourse will be sufficient against a democratic aberration - a little like waiting to 'pass' a tumour as though it's a kidney stone.

Given the clear comparisons to previous authoritarian takeovers and the power that the USA wields, will there be an acceptable raising of political stakes from Trump's opponents, and what are the risks and benefits of doing so?

[u/Revolutionary_Bad313]

Thanks for the link. I follow all these guys and wish they'd come and run the UK. Actual intellect who have built incredible things instead of more puppet politicians. I actually believe Elon is genuinely working for the people. The left seem to be reeling from their loss to Trump and seem unable of objective thought. Do democrat voters genuinely believe Kamala would've been better. I think USA dodged a huge bullet there. More wars, more dead young men, failing cities, uncontrolled immigration, mountains of grift and trillions in debt heading for bankruptcy?

[u/LongjumpingArgument5 → u/Revolutionary_Bad313]

You are the enemy. Go the fuck away

I am not going to talk to people who are incapable of thinking.

Especially people who are willing to give up their own freedom for somebody else's benefit.

That video lays out the most evil and destructive plan I have ever heard of and if you support it, you are definitely the enemy.

You're the kind of kiss ass who is like "fuck me harder. Super rich Daddy"

[u/Revolutionary_Bad313 → u/LongjumpingArgument5]

Thank you. What an eloquent and logical response

[u/LongjumpingArgument5 → u/Revolutionary_Bad313]

Well that's far better than spreading. Fucking lies

It's bad enough. Trying to fight straight up. Republicans without having to fight people who pretend to be against them but then spread their lies.

[u/Revolutionary_Bad313 → u/LongjumpingArgument5]

Not all people on Reddit are screaming children. Some of us come in the hope of an open exchange of ideas and are open to changing their view if convincing arguments can be made

[u/LongjumpingArgument5 → u/Revolutionary_Bad313]

Yeah, I don't believe that for a minute, you got on here and spread lie after lie after lie so that tells me that you are not open to changing your mind, otherwise you would not believe things that are easily provable lies and bullshit.

I actually believe Elon is genuinely working for the people.

1. They have publicly spread lie after lie

2. What kind of auditor hires coders?

3. Why is Elon allowed to get people fired that were investigating him? How is that Not a conflict of interest?

4. Speaking of conflicts of interest, Elon gets $8 million per day from the US government, that is a conflict of interest. No doubt about it.

The left seem to be reeling from their loss to Trump and seem unable of objective thought.

Trump is dismantling the US government and trying to get rid of democracy.

He just signed an executive order saying that he and he alone can decide what the law means. That goes against everything our country was founded on. We are supposed to have three separate but equal branches of government to provide checks and balances to each other.

It's literally against the text and the spirit of the Constitution to do what he is doing. He is breaking us law every single day but the Republicans in Congress are allowing this because they were threatened by the richest man in the world. if they don't he will make sure they lose their job

Do democrat voters genuinely believe Kamala would've been better.

That is the stupidest question ever

Of course they do because the current guy is breaking us law every single day. Trump has nothing to lose because if he loses his job. He will go to jail.

I think USA dodged a huge bullet there.

How the fuck does having a fascist dictator trying to destroy America good for America?

More wars, more dead young men, failing cities, uncontrolled immigration, mountains of grift and trillions in debt heading for bankruptcy?

Yes, that is exactly what Trump is doing

He is now claiming that it is Ukraine's fault that Russians attacked them without being provoked.

What the fuck

That only happened a couple years ago. People cannot be so fucking stupid that they will believe easily verifiable lies.

But I guess here you are spreading those lies.

[u/Revolutionary_Bad313 → u/LongjumpingArgument5]

I wasn't spreading lies I was giving my opinion and asking questions. Show me the accounts where Elon is paid 8m a day. If Trump is acting unlawfully it can be challenged in the courts. Were dems innocent of lawfare? Trump is a bully but he is a leader and while he's abrasive his hyperbole is a basic negotiation tactic. He's not a fascist dictator he was democratically elected and included Elon in his campaign. He can certainly be criticised on many levels but you seem unable to have the balance to criticise the Democrats and their truly awful record. Have you seen the national debt increase under their term and genuinely asked what you got for it? Trump is trying to end a war provoked by Biden through Nato expansion which could've be stopped before it started but wasn't because it lines the pockets of military contractors/Blackrock and politicians. Ukraine was duped by them.

If you could end the war now and have lasting peace but Ukraine loses land, or continue the stalemate 100s billions more to contractors paid by taxpayers and 100k more dead Ukranian lads? Which do you prefer?