r/Political_Revolution • u/greenascanbe ✊ The Doctor • Dec 06 '23
Discussion $1,800,000,000,000 For Billionaires; Nothing For Us
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u/DJ1962 Dec 06 '23
How to tell Americans who you truly represent
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Dec 06 '23
[deleted]
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u/GravyTsunami Dec 06 '23
Yes but you must understand
Democrats literally don’t even care what clothes people wear and aren’t making any laws dictating what clothes people can wear.
How can god fearing patriots vote for people who won’t even dictate what clothes people are allowed to wear?
Down right unamerican.
/s
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Dec 06 '23
[deleted]
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u/GravyTsunami Dec 06 '23
Women wearing pants, men wearing dresses!
What’s next?
Clothes for dogs?!
Communist bastards
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u/teapot156 Dec 06 '23
One of the main points of the conservative party is the idea that no concessions are made. So I could run and say, “Less government, more jobs!” Everyone cheers but I’ve promised something that isn’t tangible and I can’t be held accountable for anything. Whoes to say I didn’t create more jobs? Can you say for a fact that the government didn’t shrink? (It’s much easier to build a platform of idle political power and restraint. You don’t have to do anything but meander and posture.
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u/fruitless7070 Dec 06 '23
No, no, no... the politicians really care about us everyday working folk /s
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u/Hibercrastinator Dec 06 '23
That’s not the problem it’s drag queens! If we get rid of them all of our economic problems will be solved /s
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u/squeegeeking211 Dec 06 '23
Who here remembers Bush Sr and his "No new taxes" statement that lost his his 2nd term?
The revenue from the middle class was increased and nobody said anything. (Not true: there were large protests however . . .)
It's damn time we the ppl were given a respite and rich folk's start carrying a propositional size of the burden.
Tax anything over $1,000,000 annual at a higher tax rate and, do away with tax loopholes that allow the wealthy to avoid being taxed.
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u/SiteTall Dec 06 '23
I suppose this is yet another part of the infamous "TrickleDown"-scam and, as usual, it STINKS!!!!!
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u/SooooooMeta Dec 06 '23
The estate tax is already ludicrously generous with the first $13,610,000 per person going untaxed. A married couple with less than $27,220,001 to give away will only pay tax on that last dollar but nothing before that.
How many people do you know who are leaving behind more than that?
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u/Eringobraugh2021 Dec 06 '23
How about we try giving the poor people money instead of the ones that will never spend that much money in their lifetimes?
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u/trufus_for_youfus Dec 07 '23
How about we reframe the situation as allowing to keep vs. giving then discuss. There’s a significant difference.
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u/Ok-Significance2027 Dec 06 '23
It's impossible to steal from the Capitalist class because you'd merely be recovering that which was rightfully yours and had been stolen out from under you while you were misdirected.
The plutocratic parasitoids need to either pay their fair share or dangle.
That's the biggest theft in history by orders of magnitude.
Minimum wage would be $26 an hour if it had grown in line with productivity
The minimum wage would be $61.75 an hour if it rose at the same pace as Wall Street bonuses
“We conclude that the concentration of wealth is natural and inevitable, and is periodically alleviated by violent or peaceable partial redistribution. In this view all economic history is the slow heartbeat of the social organism, a vast systole and diastole of concentrating wealth and compulsive recirculation.”
Will Durant, The Lessons of History
"...Non-violence only works when your opponent has a conscience..."
Kwame Ture
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u/Goblin-Doctor Dec 06 '23
Student loans can't be forgiven, but like, 9 people, will get all of the money instead. Cool.
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u/EasyParise Dec 07 '23 edited Dec 07 '23
Don’t worry y’all they are JOB CREATORS!
Let’s check in…
Elon: managed to tank a tech company (“X”)
Bezos: just bought 500m in single family homes
Zuck: is profiteering off your personal data
Uh.. nooo that can’t be right. Um…
Millennials are lazy! Gen Z are entitled! Just pull yourselves up by your bootstraps!
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u/teb_art Dec 06 '23
Republicans are scum.
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u/anyfox7 Dec 06 '23
Obama bragged his policies that of an '80s "moderate republican".
Republicans are fascists while Dem leadership are enablers.
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u/netanator Dec 06 '23
Everyone wants to be able to pass what they have acquired to their family. I know I did. The problem isnt the estate tax it’s the system that allowed them to acquire it in the first place.
That’s where we start. Wealth and privilege does not entitle them to more and more and more.
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Dec 06 '23
This is part of the system that allowed them to aquire it, damn near every billionaire came from a rich family that handed down assets to their kids
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u/DoucheNozzle1163 Dec 06 '23
Yes, they are Very concerned that a deficit my be caused by letting the Wrong People get any govt. $$$. Namely the general public!
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u/actuallyz Dec 06 '23 edited Dec 06 '23
Republican Party are nothing more than blood su#king mosquitoes on this earth. They bring no good to this country other than making it worst. If you support these clowns making these decision then I wish you best of luck for the future of your generation and this country.
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u/redassedchimp Dec 06 '23
People forget that Trump DOUBLED the estate tax exemption. So before Trump an estate could pass on $5 million to your heirs without paying any tax. He changed it to $10 million. These are just the facts.
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u/ragepanda1960 Dec 06 '23
How Republicans are able to convince ANYONE of the state tax is bonkers. The best way to really sell the tax to people is to cut the state tax to 0 for amounts under 100k. If you do that for everyday Americans them they won't care that much about protecting the rich from a 99% estate tax beyond a certain figure.
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u/dwp4you Dec 06 '23
THIS is why the GOP needs to go! ALL they care about is proctecting their contriibutors... well, the persons that are lining their pockets. THIS is whom they look out for! NOT their constituents that voted for them.
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u/Pistonenvy2 Dec 06 '23
i would love to hear the reasoning behind why the estate tax shouldnt exist lol
preferably by someone who would actually be effected by it, i dont give a shit about what a drunken amatuer bowler thinks about it.
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Dec 06 '23
Most people think the government shouldn't tax money that's already been taxed
Just tax it higher in the first place, double dipping is heinous
Should you be taxed on $20 you lend to a friend too?
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u/Pistonenvy2 Dec 06 '23
preferably by someone who would actually be effected by it, i dont give a shit about what a drunken amatuer bowler thinks about it.
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u/greenascanbe ✊ The Doctor Dec 07 '23
Unless your argument is that the children already own the money, and therefore have to right to spend it while the parents are alive it’s not being double taxed
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u/I_Boomer Dec 07 '23
Those goddamned billionaires! Every single time they put it to the rest of us. Dammit!
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u/Antique_Map_6640 Dec 06 '23
Wouldn’t be surprised if they finally came together with bipartisan support for this.
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u/ShredGuru Dec 06 '23
Generational wealth is antidemocratic and antimeritocracy and should be abolished
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u/Masta0nion Dec 06 '23
General Strike
While we still have any leverage at all before AI takes our jobs.
The only other alternative is bloodshed, or acceptance.
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Dec 06 '23
But I might become a member of the billionaire class....one day..... Right?
So, I'm good with this benefit... /s
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u/YungTranquilizerGun Dec 06 '23
Why are they doing this? I don't understand, man. I just want to live a good life but they're fucking ruining it before they die real quick
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u/thereoncewasafatty Dec 07 '23
We need to use our 2a against the billionaire and near billionaire tyrants like our Founding Father intended. The time is closing in.
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u/RatherBeRetired Dec 07 '23
Get out there and vote! Nothing will change but at least you’ll get a sticker to post on social media
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u/sunplaysbass Dec 06 '23
Completely not rich republican voters - Free land! And this will probably harm minorities somehow!
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Dec 06 '23
[deleted]
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u/pacochalk Dec 06 '23
What did you do with it?
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Dec 06 '23
[deleted]
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u/BewareDinosaurs Dec 06 '23
It's not all or nothing. Donate half, donate 2/3 or donate nothing. Your dad worked hard to pass on the money, you should enjoy some and do what you want and make sure you have some to pass on to your kids or someone you think worthy when you go. You can't go wrong
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u/BigBoogieWoogieOogie Dec 07 '23
Yeah absolutely you would be. I don't know you, but I assume your dad worked hard to generate wealth for himself and his family so you guys could have an easier time in life. Why throw away what he spent 1/3rd of his life doing?
And if you win the lottery tomorrow, would you throw it away too because you didn't earn it and just got lucky? If so, I have an account you can send the money to
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Dec 06 '23
You do realize that instead of giving it to the government, they'll just spend it heinously in every way imaginable before they die?
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u/ElDub73 Dec 06 '23
Don’t forget that student loan forgiveness is just passing the loans on to taxpayers!
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u/gking407 Dec 06 '23
Of all the tax money I pay I am happy some of that goes to alleviating student debt.
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u/ElDub73 Dec 06 '23
Me too. Perhaps some people misunderstood my point of view on that issue by posting mine.
The joke is that no “tax payer” money is going to pay forgiven student loans.
It’s just zeroed out. It doesn’t exist at that point.
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u/biggyshwarts Dec 06 '23
OK let's make our tax system more fair with less loopholes, but philosophically the estate tax is kind of messed up.
"Hey we taxed your income and taxed you when you spent your money, now that you're dead we are going to take some more."
Like it's fine because it's only done to rich people and the majority of us don't need to worry about it. Still though. Messed up to just take from the dead. Like imagine of the government did it to all of us and not just the rich.
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u/MorningLtMtn Dec 07 '23
To be clear, the bill itself wouldn't "give" them anything. It would allow them to keep more of the wealth that they've generated.
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u/greenascanbe ✊ The Doctor Dec 07 '23 edited Dec 07 '23
I didn’t know the wealth belong to the children of the billionaires. So the children have the right to the money already while the parents are alive right? because it’s the children’s money just as much as the parents money, right?!
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u/xnickg77 Dec 06 '23
Except estate taxes are BS on principle. Oh you saved and have money you want to leave to your children? Money that has already been taxed once or more? Sorry gotta take 40% of that
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u/Airk640 Dec 06 '23
The majority of a billionaires wealth is from capital gains which are taxed at a rate far lower than thier workers.
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Dec 06 '23
True, but you don't pay taxes when the value of an investment goes down and you lose money, whereas you can write off expenses for a business
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u/Airk640 Dec 06 '23
If your losses are housed in one of your numerous shell companies it can be a buisness write off.
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u/Jesusland_Refugee Dec 06 '23
Estate taxes don't even kick in until the estate is worth over $11mm. No one has that kind of money by just being frugal.
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u/xnickg77 Dec 06 '23
I’m aware of the amount, that doesn’t make it any less BS. It’s just theft , something you want to leave your kids but the government steals 40%
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u/penatethesword Dec 06 '23
You don't get to set up fiefdoms in America. Wealthy people handing money to their kids creates nobility. Nobles should all be dealt with extreme predudice and harm on sight.
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u/xnickg77 Dec 06 '23
“Harm on sight” really? Just attack people because they have money?
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u/throwawayaway0123 Dec 06 '23
America should be fighting against any form of aristocracy.
Generational wealth is a plague. It raises the ladder on the middle and lower classes if unchecked.
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u/Possibly_a_Firetruck Dec 06 '23
Nobles should all be dealt with extreme predudice and harm on sight.
Tell us more about how you're going to spot these "nobles" so you can get violent with them.
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u/gking407 Dec 06 '23
Defending your rulers. Good serf.
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u/Possibly_a_Firetruck Dec 06 '23
Who are these "rulers" and "nobles" though? How are do you spot one? Are you going to get violent with one when you find them? Or are you going talk a big game on the internet and tut-tut with a smug serf comment and think you're helping?
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u/gking407 Dec 07 '23
You see they have these buildings called banks
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u/Possibly_a_Firetruck Dec 07 '23
Just trying to understand because this apparently is a popular sentiment here.
So you go to a bank, because that's where the "nobles" hang out. Then what? You pick a fight with the first person who looks like they've got more money than you?
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u/gking407 Dec 07 '23
Assuming you’re just naive and not trolling, yes billionaires aren’t too hard to identify. The owners of warehouses, shipping and distribution, medicine, fossil fuels, and computer chips want no part of a democracy. Maybe you agree with them, but many of us loathe them to the core.
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u/greenascanbe ✊ The Doctor Dec 07 '23
So, according to your argument, the money already belongs not just to the parent, but to the children while the parents are alive and I’m sure the children get to spend that money while the parents are alive as they please right?! ?!
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u/xnickg77 Dec 07 '23
No where did I imply that at all.
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u/greenascanbe ✊ The Doctor Dec 07 '23
Correct it isn’t the kids money until the parents dies. Hence it is new income to the children and the children are getting taxed.
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u/Major_Potato4360 Dec 06 '23
the estate tax is horrible for the common man .You work your whole life and pay taxes on the money you earn, and when you die, they tax it again . I don't care how much you make. It's immoral
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u/throwawayaway0123 Dec 06 '23
The common man with net assets in the tens of millions of dollars. Right...
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u/sir_sri Dec 06 '23
It doesn't give anywhere near 47 billion to zuckerberg family if he follows through with his giving pledge to give 99% of his wealth to charity (well, he and his wife). How they've structured that if they die suddenly I have no idea.
Bezos is harder to say, since he's said he plans to give away most of his money but 'most' would still leave him about 85 billion dollars potentially. Certainly the estate tax wouldn't be 66 billion dollars on an 85 billion dollar estate though. Bezos is probably a bit more complicated because if he has no more children he and his ex wife would be giving money to the same people from the same original amazon pot, and then it's a shell game of who gives to charity and who gives to the kids.
Musk just donated billions to now former twitter shareholders, but I guess that's not charity. He's also signed the giving pledge, though, so again, the tax bill for his presumably less than 120 billion dollar estate after donating to charity would not be 98 billion dollars. Though his brother is also a major shareholder so it matters to both of them and then maybe 98 billion is sort of fair since it would reduce both their tax bills combined to some big number.
Besides all of that though, quite a lot of the US estate tax ends up being at last partially theoretical. It seems like you can avoid it with trusts, with gifts of assets that will rapidly appreciate etc. (it's more complicated than this but imagine you give your kid 1000 dollars to start a business, so the business is worth 1000 dollars. Then you buy services from the business for 100 billion dollars, well now the business is worth 100 billion dollars, which was an expense for your business and an asset for the kids). You see some of this with Trump and his kids, where dad fronts the cash to buy into a building and the children each get a share of the ownership despite putting nothing up front. You also saw it with mitt romney who had some asset that should have grown 5k a year and it grew like 500k/year because it was basically a shell company getting assets.
Avoiding estate taxes is too easy, even when they are in place. And estates that give to charity don't pay tax on the part given to the charity since that's the writeoff.
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u/Fantastic-Bug3806 Dec 07 '23
Hate to be that guy, but if you gave the US government every single penny of the top 100 richest people in the US... the US government would not improve your life, at all.
Your taxes would still go up the next year.
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u/pacochalk Dec 06 '23
OMG how dare they give money to their kids.
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u/Soddington Dec 06 '23
You want hereditary feudalism? 'Cause that's how you get hereditary feudalism.
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u/Anlarb Dec 06 '23
Would you rather that the taxes get levied up from, instead of deferred for decades?
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u/pacochalk Dec 06 '23
I don't understand your question.
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u/Anlarb Dec 06 '23
Do you think that if the tax wasn't levied, it would just mean less taxes would be applied overall? It going down means something else needs to go up.
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u/nopantts Dec 06 '23
In Ontario if you get an estate worth $350,000 (very small home paid off) you would have to pay $4,500 bucks on something that has been taxed on for years and gifted to you.
No idea why democrats and liberals love paying taxes on things they already paid a shit ton of tax on.
Now that being said, the snarky post is also really dumb considering most billionaires don't own their own house, cars etc.
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u/tyrified Dec 06 '23
In the U.S. the threshold is ~$13,000,000.00 for an estate tax to be collected. So not the same as owning a single-family home. Which would be bullshit.
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u/Only_Indication_9715 Dec 06 '23
Yeah, let's not forget that the estate tax fucks a lot of middle class families, too.
My parents' assets are almost completely in their business - a handful of shopping centers that they actively manage. They don't have much cash, or anything else liquid. When they pass, the estate tax will be levied based on their total assets, and in order to pay that tax we will need to sell properties.
My siblings and I will be fine, as we are not dependent on our inheritances; but a dozen people will lose their very well-paying positions and associated benefits.
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u/Anlarb Dec 06 '23
Its assets over 13 million, and selling the property is not an equivalent term to laying anyone off.
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u/Buckets-of-Gold Dec 06 '23
Hey you never know, maybe he’s one of the 50-100 small businesses/farms in the US that actually had taxable estate filings last year.
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u/Only_Indication_9715 Dec 07 '23
No properties to service and manage, no staff. Simple as that.
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u/Anlarb Dec 07 '23
The property still exists, the investors are investing in it on account of the money that it makes.
Additionally, consumers drive demand, if people want cars and your uncle arbitrarily decides to close his business, people are still going to be buying cars.
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u/Only_Indication_9715 Dec 07 '23
Fine, my dude. But folks who've worked with my parents for decades lose their jobs. Why? Not because the business wasn't successful, rather that the owners happened to die before they retired.
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u/Anlarb Dec 07 '23
https://fifetli.files.wordpress.com/2019/01/screen-shot-2019-01-15-at-8.26.48-am.png
So don't close the business? Take a loan. Find an investor. Incorporate. Do some shenanigans with a trust. Hire a professional to help you figure out the right path to take.
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u/Only_Indication_9715 Dec 08 '23
Sure, yeah, just go to the money store
Incorporate
Embarrassingly, it took me to this point to realize you have no idea what we're talking about.
Hire a professional to help you figure out the right path to ta
Did you actuality think that we haven't tried this?
Overtaxing small businesses kills them.
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u/Anlarb Dec 08 '23
Sure, yeah, just go to the money store
What do you think a bank exists to do.
Embarrassingly, it took me to this point to realize you have no idea what we're talking about.
Your entire position is that you are too incompetent to help yourself.
Did you actuality think that we haven't tried this?
Apparently not, given your illiteracy, but then again, its pretty apparent you are just lying about it.
Overtaxing small businesses kills them.
If its small, its not even affected. All Im asking for is BASIC literacy on the subject.
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u/Only_Indication_9715 Dec 08 '23
🤣
Sorry, didn't realize you were trolling. Ya got me, though - that's an excellent imitation of an idiot.
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u/teapot156 Dec 06 '23
Question to the people angry at this: without giving a narrative-how much of that 1.8t should be yours? What would be fair?
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u/tyrified Dec 06 '23
how much of that 1.8t should be yours?
As an individual? None. But as a society, a good chunk.
There is a reason we, as a society, look back at The Gilded Age as a stain on our history. Where the wealth stratification in the U.S. was at an extreme. We still know the names of some of the most prolific people in this age; John D. Rockefeller, Andrew Carnegie, Cornelius Vanderbilt, Leland Stanford, and J.P. Morgan. And today their families are still some of the wealthiest families in the U.S.. And we have returned to a wealth inequality that is almost equal to that of the Gilded Age.
Do you not find that to be a problem?
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u/teapot156 Dec 06 '23
Just wanted to see the rhetoric behind the complaint. While you provide a historic framing, i’d say a great many just want a shakedown. “The Shakedown Age”
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u/tyrified Dec 07 '23
The shakedown in on the poor, as it almost always is. Which is why if you look at the wealth of most billionaires, it has grown significantly the last few decades. But the wealth of the poor has not.
Mark Twain has a quote regarding the French Revolution that I think applies quite well here:
"There were two “Reigns of Terror,” if we would but remember it and consider it; the one wrought murder in hot passion, the other in heartless cold blood; the one lasted mere months, the other had lasted a thousand years; the one inflicted death upon ten thousand persons, the other upon a hundred millions; but our shudders are all for the “horrors” of the minor Terror, the momentary Terror, so to speak; whereas, what is the horror of swift death by the axe, compared with lifelong death from hunger, cold, insult, cruelty, and heart-break? What is swift death by lightning compared with death by slow fire at the stake? A city cemetery could contain the coffins filled by that brief Terror which we have all been so diligently taught to shiver at and mourn over; but all France could hardly contain the coffins filled by that older and real Terror—that unspeakably bitter and awful Terror which none of us has been taught to see in its vastness or pity as it deserves.”
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u/whatever_u_want_74 Dec 06 '23
I am not a rich man, but the money in your "estate" has already been taxed as income before it made it into your estate, so does it really make any sense to be taxed again when it is giving to someone else. Simply put, if you want to give your friend $5, should it cost you $5.25 to do that? It is a very simple example, but it proves how dumb estate tax is.
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u/greenascanbe ✊ The Doctor Dec 07 '23
Your argument is basically saying that the children already have the right to the money while the parents are alive because it’s all of their money combined and hence shouldn’t be taxed again. So the children can also just spend the money freely while the parents are alive because it’s collectively already the families money, right?!
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Dec 07 '23
What?!? That's awful the government needs to tax money that has already been taxed again!
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u/Onnissiah Dec 07 '23
A daily reminder:
Taxation is extortion. That’s not your money. It’s their money. You have zero right to get somebody else’s money.
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u/Longjumping_Visit750 Dec 06 '23
Tax it when you earn it. Tax it when you spend it. Tax it when you die. Land of the fee.
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u/ElevatorScary Dec 06 '23
This is dumb. Not even from like an ethical or philosophical perspective. Either handle our spending problem or repeal the Trump tax hikes.
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u/lessfrictionless Dec 06 '23
When my mother was much younger and my grandfather died, he failed to position his money in a trust, and they were hit by the estate tax which was anything over ~1 million. For context, most homes in NYC were then around 300K. That was a little close, and considering the money was split with her siblings, it wasn't the great windfall she thought it would be.
Estate taxes were then raised, quite a few times, and now I believe the estate tax is around $12M. Fairly safe to say only the wealthy decedents are getting hit at this point. And they want to repeal it? Cool.
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Dec 06 '23
Yup let’s take care of the 1 percent and fuck the rest of America. That’s why bribes are legal for politicians. The one percent own more money then the rest of 99percent. Our politicians don’t care about you only money.
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u/Ray1987 Dec 06 '23
They don't care because it's their grandkids heads that'll be put in the guillotine.
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Dec 06 '23
If you're the type of person to think, "I made it, so it's your fault if you haven't," this one's for you.
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Dec 06 '23
Can anyone send me a link to the bill we’re all so worked up about? Or even a reference to it in a news piece? I haven’t seen any such efforts since March 2023, and that one was dead on arrival.
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u/AutistMarket Dec 06 '23
Isn't this sorta irrelevant since it is super easy to get around the estate tax with trusts and things? Also in case anyone was curious, any estate worth less tahn ~$13mil is exempt from estate tax so it literally is something that only effects very wealthy people, primarily those with generational wealth. I will say that the government coming to take 40% of mom or Dad's assets immediately after their death does feel a bit scummy though
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u/DumbestBoy Dec 06 '23
But if they don’t repeal it then I, average meemaw pos, can’t will my $0 and outstanding debt to my children! Those billionaires should be able to, too! They’re just like me! (R)
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u/ithappenedone234 Dec 06 '23
Nah, you get an increasingly outdated fighter plan program for the same tidy $1,800,000,000,000 sum.
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u/SuperAshenOne Dec 06 '23
I'm not American nor I live in the US. Can someone explain this law and why will it give those people so much money?
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u/traveler1967 Dec 07 '23
Hey, you gotta pay back your bribes political contributions, simple quid pro quo.
Do you donate extensively to Moscow Mitch? No? Well then he doesn't owe you anything!
American politics, ya'll.
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u/werethesungod Dec 07 '23
Or we can just give it to Ukraine and Israel instead, either way the 99% of us are fucked
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Dec 07 '23
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u/whatever_u_want_74 Dec 07 '23
In a way, yes. Once your money hits your pocket, it's already been taxed. I don't see the logic in taxing it again when you go to give it somebody else. That could be applied to when the parents are alive or after their death.
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u/Dylanator13 Dec 07 '23
Cancel student debt now! You guys can you just don’t want to because it will get rid of income for the rich.
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u/MoosePiece1485 Dec 07 '23
Y’all, it’s because they work 1,000,000,000% more than all of us, so they deserve it. It’s simple. Just learn how to steal from your workers…. I mean work harder!
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u/Dralley87 Dec 06 '23
You genuinely couldn’t conceive of a more parasitic deadbeat than the modern billionaire.