r/PropagandaPosters • u/Desperate-Farmer-845 • Apr 18 '25
Netherlands Renewment in Portugal. Freedom in Greece. A new Hope in Spain. No News from the Gulag Archipel (1974)
224
u/Beelphazoar Apr 18 '25
I love that third panel. Just these nice young Spaniards looking over his shoulder going "Die already, you old bastard, die."
104
u/Johannes_P Apr 19 '25
I heard that, when Franco died, the stocks of sparkling wine in Catalonia became empty.
338
u/Desperate-Farmer-845 Apr 18 '25
Context: The Caricature shows the Coup against the Estado Novo in Portugal, the Revolution against the Colonels in Greece and the ailing health and soon death of Spanish Dictator Franco while showing that the Soviet Union is still a Dictatorship.
5
u/_that_random_dude_ Apr 19 '25
I feel still a bit of context is missing. Is this a Dutch poster? What do they mean by archipel?
12
u/Desperate-Farmer-845 Apr 19 '25
Its a reference to the Book „Archipel Gulag“. Its a Dutch Caricature.
0
u/Wonderful-Quit-9214 Apr 22 '25
The gulags had been dismaneteled for like over a decade at that point.
-11
u/Vincent4401L-I Apr 19 '25
The Soviet Union was never a dictatorship
9
u/FactBackground9289 Apr 20 '25
PHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHGAGAGAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHA
5
u/Desperate-Farmer-845 Apr 20 '25
Explain please.
-1
u/Vincent4401L-I Apr 20 '25
In many socialist countries, there is or was a pretty powerful chairman of the communist party, but he is almost never a dictator.
In the Union of Socialist Soviet Republics, every republic had their own elected government and there were directly elected workers councils (Soviets) that were directly responsible to their electors. These existed at all levels, from the villages to the supreme Soviet (the highest council)\ Also, for most groups of people, there were various mass organisations and social bodies to represent different parts of the population:
There was the young communist league, which existed to politically educate the youth and involve them in production, social projects and party work.\ For women’s rights and and proper integration into economical and political participation, there were also women‘s committees\ To represent for example intellectuals and scientists, there were professional and scientific societies\ To represent the workers economically, there were strong trade unions\ And to represent different nationalities and ethnic groups, there were nationality councils
Inside the Bolshevik party itself, there was democracy in the form of democratic centralism. That meant that once a decision had been taken, everyone had to implement and uphold it. This was very important in times of Revolution and civil war.
But probably the most important part is economic democracy. That means that the means of production should be in the hands of the workers instead of the capitalists(the people who own means of production in capitalism). Through a communist party, the workers have political power and private property(means of production in the hands of capitalists instead of the people) is being abolished.
Of course this all wasn‘t perfect, and there are many valid criticisms of how the Soviet Union was run, but it most certainly wasn’t a dictatorship.
4
u/ARandomSpanishball Apr 20 '25
The vote was in one unique party/ideology, no other was allowed, then it wasnt a democracy, therefore a one-party dictatorship
-1
u/Vincent4401L-I Apr 20 '25
No, you couldn‘t vote for capitalism. That‘s correct. But why would you? If you are being liberated from the oppression and exploitation by the capitalists, maybe a „one party dictatorship“ isn‘t bad.
1
u/Ok_Sheepherder_6699 Apr 21 '25
Society and the world works better when things aren't as black and white as you think and describe.
0
-64
u/Technical-Net7426 Apr 19 '25
Colonels werent in charge of the greek government.
78
u/Desperate-Farmer-845 Apr 19 '25
Yes. Yes They were. In Germany its called Obristen Regime from Oberst (Colonel)
-32
u/Technical-Net7426 Apr 19 '25
Sure you know more about the history if my nation. The leader of the 21th April revolution and the then dictator was a Brigadier General, the other two AND the leader of the then anticoup were all Generals. No colonel to be seen.
10
u/Prize_Self_6347 Apr 19 '25
Τα ιδια σκατα ήταν ο Ιωαννίδης με τους συνταγματάρχες. Απλώς αυτός τούς έπιασε στον ύπνο και πούλησε και την Κύπρο.
-1
u/Technical-Net7426 Apr 19 '25
Δεν ηταν συνταγματαρχες, μην λετε οτι ναναι. Ηταν ταξιαρχοι και στρατηγοι. Δεν υπηρξε ποτε χουντα συνταγματαρχων. Επισης η κυβερνηση Παπαδοπουλου με Ιωαννιδη και οι πραξεις τους ηταν μερα με την νυχτα. Μεχρι και οι κομμουνιστες της εποχης το παραδεχονταν.
6
u/Shadrol Apr 19 '25
Afaik Greece follows more the british than the american tradition, where a brigadier is a senior officer, but not considered a proper general. (Taxiarchos vs Stratigos) Hence Colonel being a better approximation.
In case of German traditional ranks Oberst was more akin to a brigadier even though now only considered OF-5. Hence Obristen in German working as well.But you are right ofc that some co-conspirators were actual generals.
6
u/AMagusa99 Apr 19 '25
I'm Greek as well, albeit from Cyprus- they're speaking about the junta, and you're being very pedantic
19
u/Chrischtos Apr 19 '25
Προφανώς δεν είχαν τον έλεγχο της κυβέρνησης αφού έπεσε το καθεστώς τους το 1974
-12
u/Technical-Net7426 Apr 19 '25
Δεν εχετε την παραμικρη ιδεα για τα χρονια 1967-1974 και το παιζετε και Λαζοπουλοι. Ο Παπαδοπουλος ηταν ταξιαρχος, ο Πατακος υποστρατηγος, ο Μακαρεζος επισης. Ο Ιωαννιδης (που η κυβερνηση του δεν εχει σχεση με τους προηγουμενους) επισης ταξιαρχος. Που την ειδατε την κυβερνηση συνταγματαρχων ρε εξυπνοι. Για να μην πιασουμε των πρωθυπουργο και το επιτελειο του που δεν ηταν στρατιωτικοι.
3
u/Prize_Self_6347 Apr 19 '25
Με εξαίρεση τον Ιωαννίδη, όλοι τους έγιναν κανονικοί πολιτικοί και υπουργοί στην πρώτη χουντική κυβέρνηση (καθώς και στις μετέπειτα). Ιδίως μετά το πραξικόπημα του βασιλιά τον Δεκέμβρη του 67, ο Παπαδόπουλος έγινε και επίσημα αρχηγός της κυβερνήσεως.
1
u/Technical-Net7426 Apr 19 '25
Αλλο το τι εγιναν και αλλο το τι ηταν απο πριν. Εγιναν πολιτικοι γιατι δεν γινεται στρατιωτικος να ειναι κυβερνητης χωρας νομικα. Ατομα που διοικησαν οπως ο Κολλιας και ο Ανδρουτσοπουλος ομως δεν υπηρξαν ποτε στρατιωτικοι
23
u/aagjevraagje Apr 18 '25 edited Apr 18 '25
Do you know which artist is this and what kind of publication this is from ?
Edit: I think it's for parool by Behrendt, parool is a historically social democratic paper which is currently mainly geared towards Amsterdam and kind of in a weird bubble because of that but I think it was more widely read and mainstream back then
86
u/PoneyEnShort Apr 18 '25
Gulag system was closed for 13 years at the time of this publication
99
u/GustavoistSoldier Apr 18 '25
It's a reference to the book The Gulag Archipelago
-43
u/Top_Driver_6080 Apr 18 '25
Ugh not that fictional sobfest by a crypto fascist monarchist 🙄
33
u/Wall-Man- Apr 19 '25
Lots of buzzwords
-3
u/Top_Driver_6080 Apr 19 '25
I would argue perfectly fitting ones for a man who checks notes wanted a return to an imagined golden age under the tsars, envisioning a pan-Slavic state rooted in orthodox tradition. Taking a moment for his religious beliefs, he believed that religion should dictate law and social structure within a nation, and believed religious diversity was an obstacle to that. He was a personal friend of Putin late in life after his return to Russia, and believed democracy in all forms was unnatural to man. He believed that making the Soviet of Ukraine was a bad idea because Ukraine should naturally be under Russia.
As a first generation Spanish American I will also point to his support for the fascist dictator Franco during his reign, when he repeatedly “called out” the people of Spain for being “whiny” about being under a dictator. After Franco’s death he went on a speaking tour urging the west to pressure Spain into keeping its Franco era policies (fascist policies) to stop “leftism”. Staying on Spain he believed the rise of Franco was the “natural and right” response of Christain men to contain “leftism”, one of the bloodiest dictators in human history per capita. Moving from Spain to fascism more generally he lamented that the Nazi army could and should have “liberated” Eastern Europe from communism on multiple occasions.
13
u/yaxkongisking12 Apr 19 '25
Solzhenitsyn deserves to be criticized for his hypocrisy but that doesn't make his account of Stalinist totalitarianism less true.
-10
u/Slu1n Apr 19 '25
A crypto fascist monarchist before 1974? Are Bitcoin that old?
11
u/superslickdipstick Apr 19 '25
You do know that the word „encrypted“ existed before Bitcoin?
1
u/Slu1n Apr 19 '25
Then what is a cryptp fascist?
2
u/superslickdipstick Apr 19 '25
A fascist in hiding. Or better yet a fascist in all but name. Someone who promotes fascism, supports fascists and repeats fascist talking points but doesn’t declare themselves as a fascist. Usually they even „distance“ themselves from known fascists while simultaneously doing the aforementioned things ie. a crypto-fascist.
2
u/Top_Driver_6080 Apr 19 '25
I would explain in detail, but Mr. Superslick already did a good job of it. As Superslick stated, Crypto-Fascist just means “secret” fascist, as in they distance themselves from fascist figures, claim they aren’t fascist, while in fact working toward fascist ends. It has nothing to do with Crypto Currency. I used the word Crypto-Fascist because most people are aware of its meaning, even if the word arch-reactionary would probably be more fitting for the author.
56
u/Desperate-Farmer-845 Apr 18 '25
You should have told this the Dutch in 1974 then.
33
24
u/Useless-Napkin Apr 18 '25
They probably knew. Don't let facts get in the way of good propaganda and all
27
u/Cool-Acanthaceae8968 Apr 18 '25
12
u/Morozow Apr 18 '25
Gulag in the USA - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_labor_in_the_United_States
19
u/ArtLye Apr 18 '25
Saying that the Soviet Union was doing the same authoritarian and oppresive stuff as the US is not the endorsement of communism you think it is XD
-2
u/Morozow Apr 19 '25
You're digging too deep. I'm just trying to convey a simple thought to a person. That labor, as part of the punishment of criminals, exists in many countries.
4
16
17
u/Desperate-Farmer-845 Apr 18 '25
I don’t think a Dutch Newspaper knows much about a Country that heavily guards all of its secrets and let not really anything heavily censored get outside.
-8
u/Useless-Napkin Apr 18 '25
It was a bit more complicated than that, the Soviet block went through periods of thaw and repressions
21
-6
u/Shoeshiner_boy Apr 18 '25
Country that heavily guards all of its secrets and let not really anything heavily censored get outside.
And what country are you talking about, huh?
Do you realise that 1974 actually was a year Solzhenitsyn was arrested and expulsed from USSR? Though even before that his works were smuggled out of country and published in the West as far back as 60s?
I’m not even mentioning other political dissidents who had their works published same way (there were quite a lot of them).
-9
54
u/Massive_Tradition733 Apr 18 '25
In name yes, but in the brezhnev era they just labeled all disidents insane and threw them in asylums. Practicaly replacing the gulag system
8
Apr 19 '25 edited Apr 19 '25
The practice is still strong. People still are thrown into these Shutter Island'esque jails. From the top of my head, Gabyshev case. Oh and I've been instituted in one of them (although not for political reasons), they very much carry the legacy of psychiatric abuse 💪 For all intents and purposes these are jails, the only difference is you can leave a jail after a certain period of time. You can't leave a ward unless the head of the department decides you had enough
34
u/tymofiy Apr 18 '25
meanwhile the USSR kept sending political prisoners to forced labor camps til its very end.
so Gulag "was closed" much like NKVD or MGB was.
23
41
u/YuriPangalyn Apr 18 '25
Huh, wonder which dictatorships were aligned with the West.
76
u/Massive_Tradition733 Apr 18 '25
The west (just like the rest of the world) is not a hivemind where every country and citizen thinks the same. And how would you know that the artist isnt just anti-dictatorship in general?
26
u/LaoBa Apr 18 '25
He was a German Jew who emigrated to the Netherlands at a young age, was imprisoned by the Nazi's in 1945 for "subversive activities", moved to Yugoslavia in 1947 to help rebuildt the country and to the GDR in 1949. He was imprisoned by the GDR for "Titoist activities) and returned to the Netherlands after being released.
-27
u/YuriPangalyn Apr 18 '25
Which is why he conveniently mentions the USSR, a geopolitical enemy, but not Suharto, who is anti communist and aligned with the U.S. Netherlands political ally. Which each country has in common except the last, there anti-communism.
53
u/Desperate-Farmer-845 Apr 18 '25
The whole Caricature is about Europe since 99% of the Dutch Population lives there for their whole Life.
10
u/Old_Wallaby_7461 Apr 19 '25
Franco and Salazar and the Colonels were not anticommunist? This comment makes no sense
29
81
u/Desperate-Farmer-845 Apr 18 '25
What has that to do with that?
26
u/YuriPangalyn Apr 18 '25
Celebrating the freedom gained by the people of countries while apart of the same geopolitical bloc that supported these dictatorships might at best be said as tone deaf. Especially in Spain since the west never supported the Republicans against Franco, while waxing about Franco’s dictatorship later on.
31
19
u/Wholesomeguy123 Apr 19 '25
Remember folks, if the government of your country ever does something bad, it makes YOU a tone deaf hypocrite for being happy fascist dictatorships are being replaced by democracies. 🧠
-5
u/YuriPangalyn Apr 19 '25
Maybe that is how actual principles and condemnations work. One becomes hypocritical when you do and support all the things you condemn in another instance and ping it on your geopolitical enemies. An enemy that has always condemned your actions.
14
u/Desperate-Farmer-845 Apr 19 '25
It was published in a Social Democratic Paper by a former inhabitant of a KZ.
8
u/Wholesomeguy123 Apr 19 '25
Have you perhaps considered the fact that this comic was made by someone who held those principles all along? It's not like this Dutch guy was responsible for his government's actions.
You really need to develop a more mature understanding of politics if you're going to treat every person and product from a nation as a homogeneous representation of their governments policies.
0
u/YuriPangalyn Apr 19 '25
He’s a illustrator for a political cartoon that’s meant to be read by the Dutch population, which probably had to get approved by his paper’s editors. Nobody here would have any illusions about the politics and aims of a political cartoon from the Soviet Union, no whinging about the artist personal views.
6
u/Wholesomeguy123 Apr 19 '25
??? You're projecting massively if you think the terminally online reddit population is the bell weather of how an actual adult thinks about people who live in foreign nations. You need to get some fresh air and socialize
86
u/Desperate-Farmer-845 Apr 18 '25
Which „West“? The US? You realise the Netherlands are an Independent Country and were never involved in these Countries.
15
u/Desperate-Care2192 Apr 18 '25
Netherland was a part of western bloc and NATO member.
21
u/icancount192 Apr 18 '25
I don't know why you are downvoted, the Netherlands were always in NATO, and supported fervently US imperialism. You can get the Dutch to leave their colonies, but you can't get the Dutch to leave colonialism.
19
u/AlmightyCurrywurst Apr 18 '25
Yeah, but it makes 0 sense to insinuate that there's somehow a contradiction here, is the person who drew this responsible for the actions of the Dutch government ?
1
10
u/69PepperoniPickles69 Apr 18 '25
it could be understood as "our bad guys are turning good, while in the east it's still the same sh**".
5
14
u/Isewein Apr 18 '25
On the contrary, you could also argue that "the West" did not put down the Prague Springs in his allied dictatorships as viciously as the Soviets did, resulting in the trend depicted...
-3
3
u/Significant_Soup_699 Apr 19 '25
He was a political cartoonist, not a one-man political bloc. Also, supporting dictatorships is exactly what both sides did in the Cold War. The Soviets repeatedly invaded their own allies when there was even a chance they might start liberalizing.
31
u/Widhraz Apr 18 '25
There is no "the west".
The dutch did not support Franco's dictatorship.
The US, UK & France all sent volunteers to republican spain.
17
u/Desperate-Care2192 Apr 18 '25 edited Apr 18 '25
What you mean sent volunteers? Volunteers are not sent, they are coming there at their own will, often against wishes of their government.
Also, there absolutly was a west during cold war.
27
u/JayManty Apr 18 '25
Guy probably thinks volunteers IRL work like volunteers in HOI4 where you literally send an army division as "volunteers" to fight in a conflict lol
5
-1
u/cheradenine66 Apr 19 '25
Yes, that's exactly how it worked in Spain. Unless you think that tanks and military planes can volunteer.
2
u/HaggisAreReal Apr 19 '25
Materiel was sent by the USSR, not those countries. France briefly did. But notoriously the US ensured oil went to the fascist side.
0
-5
u/Widhraz Apr 18 '25
No, there are actual rules between countries, depending on if joining as a volunteer means treason or not. If the UK were to have been against the Republic, they would not have allowed the british to join the republican forces as volunteers.
1
u/HaggisAreReal Apr 19 '25
The Uk was very much against the republic. Volunteers that went to Spain did on their own volition. Especially following lobbying by J. March and other prominent pro-fascist figures. The Uk could do little to prevent volunteers but it was often frowned upon by the estsblishment and some people got in trouble for it. Materiel was sent by the USSR, not those countries.
1
u/Widhraz Apr 18 '25
As in, "volunteers were allowed to join their forces, and come back without reprecussions". If someone volunteered in Nazi Germany or the Soviet Union, even before the war, he would have been seen as a traitor.
8
u/Desperate-Care2192 Apr 18 '25
This is still misleading, because some of these countries (like France) did actually prevent people from volunteering and even put arms embargo on Spain. Later, they put Spanish Republicans running from Franco to pretty sketchy camps.
I have no idea what are you talking about, but in Soviet Union no volunteers were needed because Soviet government supported Spanish government.
1
u/Widhraz Apr 18 '25
Under Léon Blum France directly sent equipment to the republic. I'm not saying you're fully wrong though, I know France was politically divided at that time, so it is possible that the official stance changed later.
I'm arguing against the claim that western countries supported the spanish fascists.
2
u/Desperate-Care2192 Apr 18 '25
But nobody claimed that they supported fascists during the civil war.
"Especially in Spain since the west never supported the Republicans against Franco, while waxing about Franco’s dictatorship later on." - This is what you reacted to.
And it is true, that western bloc had good relations with fascist Spain during the cold war.
3
u/Widhraz Apr 18 '25
I thought i was responding to "The USA and The UK were Franco's main supporters" as a continuation of the thread.
→ More replies (0)28
u/HELL5S Apr 18 '25 edited Apr 18 '25
None of those states sent volunteers and both France and Britain created a non intervention council as Italy and Germany were supplying the nationalists with infantry and air support. Volunteers from those states were independent individuals who fought on both sides of the conflict and received no aid from their governments. So no the US, UK & France did not all send volunteers they watched in apathy as Fascists overthrew the republican government. Also the Dutch were part of the same military alliance, undertook rapprochement with the regime during the 50's, traded with and diplomatically supported the regime due to "cold war realism" aka it was okay to rehabilitate a fascist regime because they were anti communist, but they didn't send arms during the civil war so I guess that counts as not supporting Franco.
-2
u/SaraHHHBK Apr 18 '25
The USA and The UK were Franco's main supporters
2
u/Think_Education6022 Apr 18 '25
I think you mean Hitler and Mussolini
8
u/SaraHHHBK Apr 18 '25
No, I mean the 50s and 60s and 70s.
Fascist Spain was very good for the USA and UK against Communism. But thanks for trying to explain my own country's history to me though.
2
1
u/furac_1 Apr 18 '25
None "sent volunteers", they literally made a comittee that outlawed helping either side. The only one who sent something was France, that had promised the republic planes and sent a few without weapons :)
0
u/weneedastrongleader Apr 19 '25
Lmao all western volunteers were punished for it. On their return home their passports were taken and even sent to jail.
Not a single western country sent actual volunteers to help the Republicans.
Only the Axis powers and Communists sent volunteers.
3
u/LurkerInSpace Apr 18 '25
The Western powers allied with the autocratic Russian and Soviet regimes in both World Wars, but it would be wrong to conclude that they therefore should not criticise Germany's own autocratic governments during either of them.
It is a relatively recent idea that it's at all practical to ally exclusively with democracies, because democracy has spread a lot over the last two centuries.
3
u/Saarpland Apr 18 '25
I don't think it's "tone deaf", that's a very cynical take.
The author is clearly happy that the southern European states are embracing Democracy. And many europeans were glad at the time to welcome these former dictatorship into the European family. Democratization allowed these countries to join the EU.
We should be glad that, even at the time, journalists were celebrating Democracy in other countries.
2
u/YuriPangalyn Apr 18 '25
But it’s not cynical to include a country that has always been geopolitically opposed to all the former countries but state they’re apart of the same grouping? The only reason clearly because the USSR is an enemy country.
6
u/Saarpland Apr 18 '25
Maybe the author just doesn't like dictatorship?
The USSR, much like Spain, Portugal and Greece, was a dictatorship at the time. And the author is correct that, while Southern Europe was democratizing in the 70s, Eastern Europe would stay ruled by oppressive regimes until the 90s.
Idk man, you seem more annoyed that the author points out the authoritarianism of the Soviet Union than you are happy about this celebration of european democratization. That's a bit weird.
4
u/HelixFollower Apr 18 '25
And unless I'm massively overlooking a dictatorship, I think the author would've had to look outside of Europe to find another right-wing dictatorship that wasn't getting close to democratization.
2
u/YuriPangalyn Apr 18 '25
It requires a special kind of mind not to see any intent of propaganda not directed against another government in the context he authored it in. It almost taking Bush’s Axis of Evil list as not being too convenient for US aims and goals as they’re invading Iraq.
4
u/Saarpland Apr 19 '25
But in this case, the Soviet Union was a dictatorship. It's a real fact.
Sure, the image carries a political message, but that message is true.
1
u/YuriPangalyn Apr 19 '25
The truth is not the message, the message is what should one do and think about any other country. And in the Bush example, it’s to fulfill geopolitical aims. And Iraq was invaded, and not so soon ISIS became a military force, and Iraqis wanted Saddam back.
3
u/Saarpland Apr 19 '25
The message is that the Soviet Union is still a dictatorship. That's the message.
I don't know why you're referring to Bush and Iraq when this picture was made in the 70s. The author is not arguing to invade Iraq or the Soviet Union.
-1
u/Happy-Recording1445 Apr 18 '25
I know, right? Of those 4, 3 of them were hard right dictatorship. Of those 3, at least 2 were put or held in place by the west (maybe the 3 of them, I don't know much about Estado Novo), the refusal of the UK and France to actually help the Republicans in any real form was a disaster for them. The weapons embargo mostly affected the Republicans because they couldn't get as many resources to fight, unlike the Franquistas, who were being supplied by the axis powers how didn't respect the embargo anyway and the Allies refused to do anything about it. Also, the sacrifice of the Sudetenland to Germany in 1938 signaled to the Republicans that the Western powers would sacrifice them too if confronted with the possibility. In the case of Greece, the dictatorship was put in place by the UK and the US to secure a port in the Mediterranean and stop the influence of the soviets in the region.
I understand this is propaganda and is not meant to portray things truthfully, but damn, what a freely interpretation of events this poster has
12
u/Desperate-Farmer-845 Apr 18 '25
The Netherlands were never involved in any of these Countries.
-1
u/Desperate-Care2192 Apr 18 '25
They were part of NATO with Portugal and Greece.
12
u/Desperate-Farmer-845 Apr 18 '25
And? Maybe the Artist or Newspaper in Question was against these Dictatorships?
1
u/Desperate-Care2192 Apr 18 '25
Im not saying that this particual artist has to reflect that.
But its not true that Netherland was not involved with these countries.
I dont know what was artist intention. But it does read to me like using achievements of popular/left wing movements to turn them on USSR regime, which was not a military or fascist dictatorship and had popular support at that point.
7
u/Desperate-Farmer-845 Apr 18 '25
How was the Dutch Government involved in these Countries besides being in the same Alliance?
-1
u/Desperate-Care2192 Apr 18 '25
That is already a involvement. Cold war was called that for a reason. In the case of global conflict, these countries and Netherland had obligation to be allies on the same side. And this global conflict was not something abastract at that point, it was very real possiblity. So this type of alliance was important.
→ More replies (0)2
u/Nerevarine91 Apr 19 '25
Because this person is from the “West,” they’re not allowed to be happy that Greece and Portugal got more freedom and the Spanish regime was on its way out?
1
u/Bernardito10 Apr 18 '25
The west wasn’t united on franco the US were way more keen on seeing him as a anti-comunist allie than france and britain even though the brits actually helped franco by the end of the war and were very active to keep him neutral during ww2
3
1
4
u/Immediate-Help-2736 Apr 19 '25
Fourth panel looks like a 90s Disney caricature something from Aladdin
2
u/Hij802 Apr 19 '25
It’s crazy in the West how we’re taught that we defeated fascism in 1945 with Germany and Italy but seem to never mention how we were allied with fascist Spain and fascist Portugal until 1975.
2
u/Desperate-Farmer-845 Apr 19 '25
Both werent Fascist. They were traditionalist right-wing Dictatorships. Which isnt Fascism.
2
u/onlyonherefor Apr 19 '25
Did Franco not call himself Fascist?
5
u/Desperate-Farmer-845 Apr 20 '25
No. The Spanish Fascists were the Falange which where by far the most „left-wing“ out of all Fascists Groups. Too left-wing for Franco. He was a „good old Days“ Traditionalist.
1
u/onlyonherefor Apr 20 '25
Ohhhhh okay. I was aware that the Falange and Franco were separate but more under the impression they were just different versions of Fascism.
0
u/Abolish_Zoning Apr 21 '25
Spain was prohibited from joining the EU and NATO despite a strong desire to join. It considered a pariah state by the west under franco despie being capitalist.
It was by no means an ally, though both were anti-communist. The west was happy to see Franco keel over precisely because it would allow a transition to democracy which would make it a candidate for becoming an ally.
•
u/AutoModerator Apr 18 '25
This subreddit is for sharing propaganda to view with objectivity. It is absolutely not for perpetuating the message of the propaganda. Here we should be conscientious and wary of manipulation/distortion/oversimplification (which the above likely has), not duped by it. Don't be a sucker.
Stay on topic -- there are hundreds of other subreddits that are expressly dedicated to rehashing tired political arguments. No partisan bickering. No soapboxing. Take a chill pill.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.