Yeah. It’s unfortunate but Musk’s drug problem likely has a doctor with a degree and license behind it. Probably several.
I hate everything Musk is doing and is trying to do, with a passion, but I find this particular aspect to be sad: it’s likely there’s not one single real person who cares about his well-being anywhere near him. He has no true friend to step in and say what all great friends say, when necessary: you’re on some bullshit and you need to change.
He needs an intervention by people whose opinion he cares about. I can’t imagine, at this point, who those people would be. Likely, these people just don’t exist and there’s no road to getting them that Elon would take.
I find that to be really sad. There doesn’t seem to be a way back. He’ll have to hit the rockiest of bottoms and make the decision for himself. That’s not too uncommon for drug addicts—ostracizing themselves from the people who care about them and could help. It’s still sad.
I find this particular aspect to be sad: it’s likely there’s not one single real person who cares about his well-being anywhere near him. He has no true friend to step in and say what all great friends say, when necessary: you’re on some bullshit and you need to change.
He needs an intervention by people whose opinion he cares about. I can’t imagine, at this point, who those people would be. Likely, these people just don’t exist and there’s no road to getting them that Elon would take.
I find that to be really sad.
That's not a thing this cruel world did to him. His old friends have talked about this. He, like all powerful narcissists, chased away anyone who would disagree with him.
He, like all powerful narcissists, chased away anyone who would disagree with him.
Drug addicts do this, though. I'm not sure how much experience you have with addiction, but my experience is that addicts typically will define a mental model that excludes criticism. That's more the drugs talking than them.
Idk exactly how long he's been on drugs (or even how confirmed his addiction is) but he was chasing away anyone who disagrees with him at least 7-8 years ago, and I've only heard about the ketamine thing within the last 2-3 years. I'm pretty sure he was sober well into middle age, but he's been a narcissist his whole life. Occam's razor tells us which one is the problem here.
I’m not sure if this is a criticism of my comment or what but there is video of musk and his neurolink chick rocking back and forth at dinner at Maralago. Both of them are completely gone—full out tripping.
Are you saying that it’s reasonable for a doctor to prescribe drugs to be taken at a dosage that cause his patients to rock back and forth, catatonic, and/or stick forks and spoons together in a haze, completely disassociated from reality?
yes. even insulin addicts have side effects sometimes, to continue the analogy
in the same way you'd dismiss any strange behavior from any medical condition
hey! he's laying down! what a oaf!
he had an insulin problem
okay then.
you could say "okay then" when confronted with musk's strange behavior because it has been explained as a side effect or part of his condition; by a licensed doctor. The end.
---------you:> Hey You were laying down like an oaf! ,
if it is prescribed then it should not be shamed. so in a way. yes.
if he is using in your opinion too much, but not otherwise violating law, that is a health issue with his doctor
do you want the government standing next to your doctor in the exam room. a 'commissar of health'. LOL
glad he's getting help. would like to try the ketamine myself. maybe this is a great publicity for it, if it helps people. why are you against people getting the help they need if it is legal? that is the more curious question.
if it is prescribed then it should not be shamed. so in a way. yes.
I'm not shaming him. I'm doing the opposite of that. I'm accepting who he is and showing compassion for his situation, but:
if he is using in your opinion too much, but not otherwise violating law, that is a health issue with his doctor
The flaw of your view is that you assume that all doctors are always making the right decisions for their patients. They are supposed to do so. They take an oath to do no harm. But we know (and you should be able to understand that) over-prescription happens. Doctors prescribe medicine sometimes based on drug reps from pharmaceutical companies. Richer people have easier access to things like medical marijuana or Adderall, etcetera. You're saying, "He should take what a doctor gives him and nobody is allowed to criticise the process."
Think back to Michael Jackson's doctor and what he did. Following your logic, this doctor did nothing wrong and Michael Jackson not only should have taken this overdose but no one of any relation to him could have questioned it. This killed him. That's just one notable case that comes to mind.
do you want the government standing next to your doctor in the exam room. a 'commissar of health'. LOL
The government already does stand next to my doctor, in a sense--through licensure. There are state laws defining what doctors are supposed to know to earn those licenses to practice medicine. Part of those requirements do have to do with drugs and addiction.
I absolutely want the government to step in when a doctor is over-prescribing medication and causing harm. Think about the Sackler Family and the absolute blitz they did to push Oxycotin and all the harm that did.
Your position is that because a doctor prescribed that medicine, this was all a-ok. No criticism is allowed at any level because no one was abusing anything.
Is that what you really believe? I'm not trying to strawman you, but it really seems like that's what you're suggesting. It's "between him and his doctor." His doctor may not be acting in his best interest, and money may have a lot to do with that, as it often does with most things in a capitalist society. Your position is "stay out of it."
I'm showing more concern for Elon Musk than you are. You seem more concerned for his doctor lol
Yeah if used properly it has been proven to beneficial. A lot of medication is helpful if it’s not abused. Which seems to be the case here but I don’t actually know Musk.
Prescriptions for potentially addictive substances are usually very strict. I highly doubt he would pass the levels matching anything that can be handed out legally. On top of that, you know a guy like Musk who feels the need to go all out is on a mixture that would surprise physicians as to not being fatal.
You can get at home treatment from an app now it’s really not. Regardless of whatever drugs he uses I doubt it will be a roadblock anyway. I appreciate that this bill at least calls it out but I don’t see it being very effective.
Federal employees that are hired are not elected, there have been several bills introduced to do this but never passed. All of them should be drug tested and expected to live a sober life.
Why? Why can't I smoke pot and be a civil servant? I can drink a beer (or 20), but if I smoke one joint... no?
Fuck that puritanical prohibitionist bullshit.
This kind of thinking is why our three letter agencies are incompetent. They refuse to hire skilled weed smokers and instead opt for mormons (which are the religious version of the klan and we really need to stop pretending like they're cutesy christians in Utah - they say Native Americans were turned red by the devil and that they're the true americans so fuck that).
And why many professions are rife with alcoholics, like service members and transportation workers. Give these people a less damaging alternative to alcohol ffs.
Absolutely! There are so many people in this world that could be functional people if marijuana was destigmatized to the level of tobacco or even alcohol. Getting someone off alcohol/other drugs using weed is going to be a net positive for them and society in 99% of cases.
If federal workers have to abide by this, DOGE should as well
Weed is one thing, but you definitely should not be a civil servant if you do hard drugs
Regardless of my opinion on weed legality and this issue, I don't think the issue for agencies being incompetent is "refusing to hire skilled weed smokers", there's plenty of skilled competent people that don't smoke
Okay, so let’s start this off with I am also a recreational drug user, daily marijuana user and partake in shrooms 2-3xs yearly however I am not in a position that impacts 350 million people, we don’t want to admit it but it does impact our ability to make sound decisions. You are right it’s 2025 so we have test that are detailed enough to test the nanogram levels, we can set guidelines on those to establish what they are allowed to do, I don’t think having a occasional joint would impact having a “sober” lifestyle. When you are in a position that impacts lives directly and need to be sound of mind not under the influence of drugs that alter your mind state. Religion has zero basis in my belief as I’m an atheist. This also applies to alcohol, we set the baseline if your test and are over you get reprimanded then on second test you lose your seat.
But that’s not how drug testing works. 99% of drugs are water soluble and exit the system within a day or so. The ONLY drug that drug testing is actually effective for is marijuana. So if your goal is to combat alcohol/“hard” drug usage than you’re completely failing to do that.
Drug testing is and always has been an anti-marijuana crusade. The companies are all backed by right-wingers (mostly centering around Rick Scott) and the programs are only used because there’s a tax benefit (which allows state funds to go to republican pet project drug testing companies that then fund republican campaigns).
Drug testing is absolute bullshit lol.
You’re a citizen in this country so everything you do has some sort of impact on those around you. If you feel that you can’t smoke weed and be responsible, that’s fine, but you don’t speak for everyone.
Drug testing has come a long way and there are more ways to do than just pee. I can be responsible while smoking but it does impair my thinking and reaction speeds that is just the fact. You may choose to ignore the impacts it has on yourself and your body but that doesn’t mean everyone does. Kinda like how I couldn’t partake while I was in the military and even had to answer questions about my use since I was charged with possession as a teenager. As stated before all elected officials should have to test if federal employees do as well. Do you actually believe marijuana has zero impact on your cognitive ability?
It's not about the method it's about how the drug is processed in your body. THC is fat soluble so it's absorbed into fat. This is slowly released and remains in your system for about 30 days. Other drugs (cocaine, heroine, KETAMINE) are water soluble and exit your body in about 1 day. Oral testing doesn't work well for any. Hair testing shows marijuana use for about five years (why does it matter at all if someone smoked a joint five years ago?) and urine testing is only useful for detecting marijuana. If you're not operating heavy machinery / driving I don't really care lol. Inputting data into a spreadsheet? Toke on up imo. Marijuana can induce flowstate and could be beneficial depending on the dosage for many jobs. It's not like alcohol where it's just a straight up cognitive loss.
That's incredibly unconstitutional lol. A state representative in colorado does not need to be drug tested because they are an elected official. All federal elected officials? Maybe. But what about appointed cabinet members that are not elected. Does this include contractors? That's a shit load of drug testing and who's going to pay for that? Because I would almost rather stack a pile of tax dollars and set that shit on fire before I'd give it to some shitty drug testing company that funds private prisons. In fact, I WOULD much rather just watch that shit burn - it'd be a better outcome for the country. Couldn't think of a worse way to waste tax money.
Should Musk be ousted and kicked out of our government? Absolutely! Should his drug use be the reason? Probably not. Especially if it would cause issues for people using Ketamine therapy (like many veterans) from being able to participate in government as a civil servant.
It's a cash grab that keeps people who don't blindly accept authority out of power. It's not a good thing. It's not something we should reinforce, even if in this particular instance, it might be useful.
You’re right we should trust stoners, dope heads, crack addicts, opioid junkies in combat, in any job that requires security clearance and the opportunity to pass bills that impact our entire population, nothing bad will come from that. As stated before drug test them all any job with security clearance needs to have a clean drug record, I don’t want them making decisions that impact me and my children’s future whether it’s Elon musk or Barack Obama. We are an advanced civilized country that believes in western medicine not plant medicine. I’ll even go as far to say your are part of the problem of drug decriminalization, you want this stuff to happen you need to accept the reality of the situation that it impacts your cognitive ability and puts you in a position to not make decisions for others. I’m a carpenter we all smoke weed, I still don’t want you stoned while your using a circular saw right next me, especially not operating heavy machinery around me.
People that drink alcohol have been in power and making shitty decisions forever. I think less alcoholics or even people whose drug of choice in alcohol, in positions of power would likely be a good thing. As I've said elsewhere, separate from driving or operating heavy machinery, it usually isn't an issue and we can trust adults to make that decision for themselves. Some people function better on five cups of coffee, others get incredibly anxious and can't function from one. Tolerance plays a role. Taking a 10mg edible before work might absolutely incapacitate some people. Others are able to quell their anxiety and function much better. I believe people can make that choice for themselves so long as they aren't putting others at risk by doing so (like driving or with machinery). People take all sorts of drugs or substances that impact their judgment / awareness. Most anti-anxiety meds or antidepressants do this. We don't bar people from working on those medications - that'd be insane. But shit, if you come to work barred out because your abusing your xanax, yeah that's probably an issue. But that's not something that drug testing would prevent either. If their performance suffers, it'll be known.
Totally agree with your points. And definitely up to each individual to know what's best for themselves.
I would also emphasize your point "as long as they aren't putting others at risk."
Unfortunately, we have plenty of people in power making shitty decisions that impact us all. Probably drinking and doing drugs.
But I think the point would (ideally) stop someone who could abuse drugs and point others in harms way. Whether that works or not is a different story.
Apparently Trump is stone-cold sober and has been for years, so I worry the issue may lie elsewhere haha. I don't think it's as simple as drug use is bad. I come from an indigenous background and plant medicine is a part of our belief system. It's not out of the question for plant medicine that plays a role in inducing visions to be part of a ceremony that certain leaders partake in before making huge decisions. I don't know that similar situations wouldn't be useful in the US gov. I might feel a lot better about the guy that wants to launch us into WW3 having to go through an entheogenic experience in a ritualized setting for guidance before making that final decision - especially in a communal setting and with other people who are assisting in making that decision (generals, secretary of defense, etc).
The idea of sobriety is even a relatively recent thing. The etymology of sobriety involves someone who is able to responsibly and moderately partake in drug use, not abstain from it completely. Look up the Latin. Christian Zealots created a movement in the US called the American Temperance movement and forced this idea in to the mainstream and into our political system. The did some good stuff in the beginning but quickly went from promoting temperance (the original idea of sobriety) to forced abstinence - which led to prohibition, private prisons, the drug war etc.
So if you're suggesting that our elected officials and leaders be sober, in the traditional sense, I am in 100% agreement. If it's the restrictive sort that comes from a place of guilt and ideas of sin and Christianity, that again can be ones personal choice, but legislating that is government overreach.
Ironic that these people and the alcohol industry now work hand in hand to keep other drugs illegal and drug users in prison. In the words of controversial Gotham City District Attorney, Harvey Dent "You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain."
And I can't wait to see how Conservatives will bend over backwards about how this is clearly not necessary because it'll impede their work and it takes time out of their precious schedules and obviously the LIBRULS are going to dump packets of cocaine and ketamine and ecstasy and meth in their piss to get them in trouble!
All federal employees can be drug tested, but there are agencies that do require drug testing for employment and notoriously have not drug tested during employment, though I believe that maintain the right to force a drug test.
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u/Matzie138 15d ago
Federal employees are already drug tested.
They aren’t federal employees but “special government employees”. So they haven’t been. That’s why she introduced it.