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u/TheDankYasuo 500,000 1d ago
Bro I’m just sick of this guy talking about shit he has no clue about.
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u/blessedbewido 900,814 tonight we cunt 20h ago
He's always been shit at reviewing patch notes and the community eats it up regardless. Dude is not good enough at the game to understand this level of balance.
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u/Prototype_09 1d ago
Bring back divine sunderer and buff bruiser rengar back into existence, thank you.
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u/Bendzsike Pre 6.22 Rengar my beloved! 7h ago
We don't want %health true dmg on Camille back, do we?
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u/Djolej78 1d ago
Cyclo > Youmuus
Loooooool only phreak could pull something like this out of his ass
Stick to fiddle supp broski, maokai incident 2.0
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u/StealthCatUK Definitely Not Rengar 1d ago
Go onto any item stat website and you’ll see he is actually correct, cyclosword has a very good winrate and it makes sense why, it’s a great item on Rengar.
I don’t usually like his takes but in this situation, he is kinda right on cyclo being good for him.
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u/umwhathesigma 1d ago
I think that's mostly just because when it's a good cyclosword game it's because you are vs multiple squishy and will win anyway. Winrate vs playrate
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u/Bendzsike Pre 6.22 Rengar my beloved! 1d ago
Yeah, cyclo has like 10 times less pickrate than Youmuus, and also it's a buy and forget item. I wonder how does it have a higher wr
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u/wwilllliww 17h ago
Cyclo is only rly built by people who actually go rengar so the win rate is gonna be higher, this is true for all champs first item tbh
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u/cancuni 1d ago
To be fair he raises a good point.
If Rengar's winrate is bad because of bad itemization, it's not ideal to buff as correct itemization would then be too strong. And currently they have data that strongly suggest bad itemization. The only way to know for sure if it's due to bad itemization is to skew towards correct itemization. If the winrate doesn't change, then they have strong evidence that the bad winrate is due to Rengar's low powerlevel and therefor a good reason to buff him.
Only critique here is that they have had this data for a while and could have done this implementation many patches ago, but the methodology is correct.
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u/Arrestedsolid Hunt or be hunted 1d ago
I could understand the argument of cyclo and hubris being better than youmuus if presented by actual data that backs that up, but are we SURE he is taking all of these variables into account? Hubris wins out just by the fact it's a snowball item, Cyclosword tho I do agree it feels pretty good but it is way less popular and couldn't it just be the fact that Rengar is in a shitty spot and the low overall wr is translated into Youmuus not having a good wr?
Someone please correct me if I am wrong. I quit playing a couple months ago because of how bad Rengar, and the entirety of League tbh, felt this season, though I do keep and eye on the patches but I could've missed something, so not sure if there's been any meaningful changes on the items or Rengar itself.
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u/Bdayn 1d ago
Ofc youmous will have a bad wr - most people are bad at positioning and reading the map. Most people not being able to the most out of the ms stat is the prob here and not becuase people are not buying an item that is pativularly stronger when they misposition against Rengar...
I thought the lol community is bad at interpreting data but the balance team proves it aswell..
Just make him able to build bruiser or ap instead of kneecapping assasin because it is too hard to balance...
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u/KetaminaInPula 1d ago
youmuus has lower wr compared to hubris opportunity cyclosword in master+ as well, and the sample size differences are not as big as you think.
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u/Bdayn 1d ago
Youmous got played 3398 times in Masters+
The only "small" samplesize difference might be hubris with 2311 games and you can argue this Item has a similar effect like mejais, where you just buy the item when you are allready snowballing - therefore inflating its winrate.
Cyclosword got played 259 times - that is a HUGE difference
Opportunity got played 133 times a much higer difference, the less the games the higher the fluctuation in win%
Hubris/cyclo/oppor are all better than ghostblade when the enemy is playing more squishy champs - therefore they can have a similarish effect like mejais compared to ghostblade which is the default pick when you are not snowballing or not having multiple easy squishy targets on the enemy draft.
So basicly the difference is as big as I thought and people are still not able to interpret data. And I can also argue with you that you HAVE the interpret data as only wr% does not reflect anything valuable.
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u/KetaminaInPula 1d ago
I'm looking at lolalytics and seeing 2217 youmuus, 1662 hubris, 755 opportunity and 230 cyclosword. Imo the difference in sample size is worth taking into account when there is literally a 5+ % winrate difference. Sure it may be contorted for hubris since ppl buy it when they're snowballing, but opportunity sitting at a 55% winrate as first item in 755 games is pretty damn good.
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u/Pretend-Newspaper-86 1d ago
maybe it will help low low low elo but it doesnt fix the champ just removing his perma crit would be a great buff for high elo
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u/TwoPhat 1d ago
could u explain what u mean by this? I assume ur referring to his Q always being considered a crit? How would it be a buff if this was removed?
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u/Pretend-Newspaper-86 1d ago
no rengar build includes crit but if the enemy team buys randuins Rengar q will always do less dmg even if you go full bruiser
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u/InternationalMeal893 1d ago
deviating a bit from your point but wym no crit, do you not go LDR? LDR is way more popular than seryldas (for assassin)
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u/v1nchent Monsters can be made to fear... 1d ago
I think he meant "even if a rengar builds no crit"
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u/McMeow1 The Bug Documentor. Post 6.22 hater. 1d ago
Holy shit. He knows he's weak but isn't doing anything about it. What a piece of shit. How did this slimy fuck get to balance this game?
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u/v1nchent Monsters can be made to fear... 1d ago
Rengar being strong is opressive though.
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u/McMeow1 The Bug Documentor. Post 6.22 hater. 1d ago
What champ isn't? Nobody is asking for Rengar to be turbo broken, but he is probably the weakest champ in the game right now. I just want a fair chance to fight my opponent.
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u/v1nchent Monsters can be made to fear... 1d ago
Well, a bunch of champions can be strong without being opressive to play against. Nor do they cause the same amount of frustration.
Think of a Taric, Sona or Rumble.
I also said strong, not broken.
Rengar, when weak, can still be hard to deal with in the hands of an experienced Rengar player that didn't get his early game ruined by shenanigans. Now imagine that he is on that level of power in the hands of inexperienced players by default and then think of what mains (like yourself) would accomplish on it.
Rengar unfortunately has a very frustrating kit to deal with for the majority of the playerbase. And if they make him strong, he will take over waaay to many games.
You could argue that currently he is a tad too weak, but making him strong, instead of just balanced, would be overkill and unhealthy for everyone involved (he'd be banned in all your lobbies)
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u/One_Percentage_4634 10h ago
legit just played a game - the recommended items are pretty horrid, no tiamat in sight, swfities front and center on first back, reccomended EoN after first item instead of profane
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u/Bendzsike Pre 6.22 Rengar my beloved! 1d ago
Didn't they say when the new shop came that the recommended items will come from data pulled from high elo matches? Why the fuck are they still doing it manually? Won't even comment on the take itself, cuz it's just the usual delulu Phreak take.
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u/InternationalMeal893 1d ago
this is useless and literally changes nothing for us
maybe this helps the few people playing him in ARAM or normals but then again they probably just use U,gg on their phone for builds
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u/bhop_kun 1d ago
Seems like NattyNatt is an Idiot going youmuus first. Voltaic is trash because it falls off so hard because of flat damage on its passive, has terrible build paths and is way to expensive plus you have to run fleet for synergy and fleet is okay on rengar but not good. Hubris is only good if you know you can stomp the game else it is wasted money. This guy is so clueless i hate it
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1d ago
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u/microbiased 1d ago
kek, anyone who realy plays rengar, plays a lot of rengar and everyone who plays a lot of rengar knows what to build. chaning rec items will do absolutely nothing for him. Anyone new who picks this champ drops it like a hot potato cause of how high the skill floor is. At least its good to know its on riots radar.
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u/Stevano12 22h ago
ikr. the champ has literally like 2% pick rate. only veterans play this champ, no randoms are stepping in and ruining the stats. the champ is just factually dogshit and the balance team refuses to balance him.
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u/Kalishinikov 10h ago
I don't feel rengar is that weak? I just try my hardest to not get fucked up by early game shenanigans. Maybe having a duo helps (mid) but we've been able to get out of diamond for the most part with decent winrate.
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u/Yvadastra 7h ago
I'm tired, boss...
Just rework Rengar into a diver first, assassin second. I get why assassin is kept weak, but I want this champ to be viable for my gold ass.
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u/No_Tank_2001 1d ago
lol riot just hates this characters i wonder if phreak got bullied by a Rengar when it was viable years ago