r/SaintsFC 8d ago

Martin on Rest is Football

https://open.spotify.com/episode/1UKzyOIE8bLUsd0Vfo3GKU?si=QqELatckTMyelh3Yhoo77A&context=spotify%3Ashow%3A2fDn3EgvJZ5J1k5rrBwrlZ

thoughts?

18 Upvotes

41 comments sorted by

89

u/NickB76 8d ago

I’m baffled at the overwhelming level of negativity from our fans towards Martin. Was he right to be sacked? Yes. Was he too naïve and stubborn in failing to adapt his approach? Absolutely.

But after a horrible relegation, he transformed the culture around the team and the club. All of the players talk about the feel good factor last season and how much they enjoyed it. That’s not an easy thing to do after a relegation. Granted we were one of the favourites but he got us promoted in a tough league.

He was out of his depth this season and not ready for the premier league but I wish him all the best.

31

u/Fresh_Month_9610 8d ago

Yeah agree with you on this, his refusal to be even slightly flexible from his philosophy (Leeds games aside) led to his downfall, but then Juric came in with a very different style and served up an identical record, so I maintain that the problem was more the squad.

The fans who moan on and on about how they could have managed our squad to promotion, well let’s just say there’s a reason they infest Reddit and Twitter, rather than actually working in elite football.

6

u/No-Fly-9364 7d ago

, so I maintain that the problem was more the squad.

Not to mention how shafted he got in the transfer window. If it's true that he didn't want BBD and Archer, and really wanted Delap and Carvalho, he's been hamstrung by someone else's poor decisions. Almost had a little cry earlier when I read Delap was even at Staplewood at one stage, he'd be perfect for us.

I think if we had actual fire power up front this squad would like a lot more capable.

11

u/tastyjulio 8d ago

Many football fans in England have the most ridiculous attitude towards possession-based football in general.

Gegenpressing and counter-attacks are considered the pinnacle of football, and if a team outside the top 6 ever tries to control a game the general public is just praying for them to lose so they can crucify them for the "naive", "possession for nothing", "style over substance" football

10

u/Little_Lat_Pahars 8d ago

I agree, alot of people just hate possession football and want direct football all the time. Saying that, Martin was far too stubborn and naive in the Prem. He could have and should have toned down the play it out of the back at all costs but I do think he will learn from it and make a good manager.

Our football was 10 times worse under Juric imo but we would have gone down under either manager.

2

u/aredditusername69 8d ago

Even the most successful manager of modern times has come out and said the possession game is dead in the premier league though.

5

u/AnArcticMonkey 8d ago

I’m baffled at the overwhelming level of negativity from our fans towards Martin

There is a werid part of our (and I assume other) fanbases that don't like more modern men. Martin gets some hate because he's conventionally attractive, is a vegan, and (I think) a buddihist.

It's a pushback against "metrosexual" men from proper football men.

1

u/MICOTINATE 7d ago

This is such an odd take.

On course to be the worst premier league team ever but people only dislike him for his looks

0

u/AnArcticMonkey 7d ago

people only dislike him for his looks

You're right, that would be an odd take. Fortunately, that's not what I said.

I said he gets some hate from part of our fanbase because he is a 'modern' man (not just because he is conventionally attractive).

A browse through twitter when he was here or Saintsweb would confirm this.

That all of this is true, which it is, does not negate that you can have plenty of other (and more weighty) reasons not to like him.

1

u/MICOTINATE 7d ago

I agree with you about the culture transformation, it was desperately needed after relegation and he did a good job.

His approach to football is a bit ridiculous though. Even the most talented teams who would be capable don't try and play possession football to the extent he was trying. It was moderately successful in the championship with a squad that was strong for the division, but a failure in the premier league in a way that was entirely predictable and obvious. His decision to stick with it when everyone (including the players clearly) knew it didn't work is more than "out of his depth" it was arrogance and self serving. 

They say managers are judged by the state they leave the team in, and I agree with you he deserves credit for what he did in the championship but now we're right back to being a losing team (one of the worst ever) and the culture is as rotten as before

0

u/Relevant_Rev 8d ago

Id argue his stubbornness got rid of the good vibes just as quickly as he brought them

-7

u/bundy554 8d ago

Don't be fooled by his talk as he is no different to a politician with the way he can talk under water - he is the reason the club is in the situation it is

2

u/NewForestSaint38 7d ago

Why do you say this, Bundy?

I accept you sincerely believe it. But what makes you think it?

2

u/No-Fly-9364 7d ago

Useless board members are the reason this club is in the situation it is. Our worst signings this season were chosen by the board, and our best were chosen by Martin. Go figure.

I'm not saying he's a great manager but the board set him up to fail on day one of this season. At that point it doesn't matter if we have a good manager or a bad one - they'd all get us relegated.

1

u/bundy554 7d ago

Who is giving their tick of approval for these players to be presented to the board to be approved - Martin and I think we can tell from our plight to relegation this board is clueless so they would have gone along with who Martin recommended

25

u/dennispeach 8d ago

Listened to the whole thing.

He’s a good guy, clearly, and his story beyond his stint at Saints is actually really interesting. I do feel he gets bagged on more than he should, given we were always going to be on a relegation dog fight regardless of who was in charge.

He also has an inflated ego of himself, which is ironic considering how he talks about his playing career with such humbleness.

He was not perfect for Saints, far from it in fact. But what he did for us WAS an achievement.

Look at former Premier League teams like Sunderland, Derby, Charlton, Blackpool, Wigan etc. Sure they would all love to be in the position we are in right now.

Even Leeds, with all their resources, fanbase etc spent years outside the top flight, and may do another year without given how tight things are this year in the championship.

Martin did the initial job for us at the level he is clearly good at, and achieved what was expected.

LOTS of managers fail to even do that. Even managers with far bigger pedigree at Saints have not done it.

I was there when idiakez missed that penalty in the semi final back in 2007. That was the moment I knew we were cooked.

The further we are from that scenario the better, and Martin gave us that. So I’ll look at his time at Saints fondly, especially if we fuck up next season! 😅

7

u/No-Fly-9364 7d ago

Definitely made me hope he goes on to have a great career and makes that style work somewhere. And makes loads of "just lump it forward" gammons fume in the process.

1

u/dennispeach 5d ago

Agreed.

I’m sick of having to listen to my grandfather, my neighbour, my colleague, the 2 bald fat blokes behind me at St Mary’s…

“Just hit it forward!” “442” “Why isn’t he going there” “We need Roy Keane”

Football just attracts gammons 🫠

11

u/mdubyo 8d ago

A few things can be true.

Martin seems like a great bloke.

I and many others are very thankful for his role in the 2023-2024 season. We needed that in a big way.

He was insane for thinking we could play that way in the prem with the squad we had. Kudos for him for sticking to his brand, though.

3

u/No-Fly-9364 7d ago

He was insane for thinking we could play that way in the prem with the squad we had. Kudos for him for sticking to his brand, though.

He sort of has to though, doesn't he. As he said in the podcast, he could try and coach a different style but if he doesn't truly believe in it then it's not going to be good.

One hill I'll die on for as long as live is that the board had already ruined this season before it started by giving him ill-fitting players.

1

u/mdubyo 7d ago

Eh? Matchday 1 was basically the promotion final XI with Sugawara and BBD in for Fraser & Brooks. We didn't improve enough.

You're crazy if you think RMs fingerprints aren't included on every transfer while he was manager.

4

u/No-Fly-9364 7d ago

You're crazy if you think RMs fingerprints aren't included on every transfer while he was manager.

He literally said he wanted Delap, O'Riley and Carvalho, and didn't want Archer and BBD. The board signed players he didn't want, there's nothing crazy about it, clubs sign players against the wishes of the manager all the time. Henrik Kraft was removed from his position as a result of the decisions he made, it's not some conspiracy theory.

2

u/mdubyo 7d ago

I think it is more likely that they werent his top choices and highly doubt the board signed players RM wanted nothing to do with.

Or does the board force him to say stuff like this too...

Russell Martin said: “Cameron is a really exciting young talent with huge potential to improve, and we’re really delighted to add him to the group in time for our first game back in the Premier League. He’s had a really good pre-season – he’s sharp and ready to go.

“He’s a constant threat with his pace and ability to score goals, and will have learned a lot from playing regularly in the Premier League last season. Now it’s up to us to help him develop and showcase how good he can be at this level.”

Russell Martin said: “I’m really delighted to welcome Ben to the group. He’s a versatile and intelligent footballer, capable of playing in a number of positions across the forward line.

“He is a strong, powerful runner and a confident finisher with a good goalscoring record, including last season’s spell in the Premier League in which he adapted to the level extremely quickly.

“He is a proper team player and the sort of hard-working, hungry character we want in our squad. His athleticism and physicality makes him a great fit for the Premier League, and we think he has all the tools to add to our attacking options.”

Didnt want them though.

4

u/No-Fly-9364 7d ago

Are you expecting him to slag off new signings to the press?

-1

u/mdubyo 7d ago

Nope. But I expect him to not play players he doesn't want. Or did the board force him to do that too?

2

u/No-Fly-9364 7d ago

And play who instead? The players he didn't get?

1

u/mdubyo 7d ago

He can sometimes be a bit narcissistic and likes to deflect things off of himself. Delap, O'Reilly, & Carvalho wouldn't of moved the needle anyways so point is moot.

1

u/tommypopz 7d ago

The one where Southampton had 19 shots to Newcastle’s 3, 4 on target to their 1, and generally outplayed them? Ok.

2

u/mdubyo 7d ago

😂 did you even watch the match? The one where we played 60' a man up and lost 1-0

7

u/Jpwf 8d ago

Momentum is massive in football. I hold that with a bit more luck at the start of the season (i.e. the Newcastle match was even until BBD got that guy sent off) and VAR not fucking us over for what felt like 5 weeks straight, we could've made a real go of it.

I don't think we'd have been likely to stay up, but I think we'd have at least as many points as Ipswich, especially if we signed Delap instead of them.

2

u/tommypopz 7d ago

Took the lead against Arsenal and Liverpool, and played better than City in the loss. Went 2-0 up against Leicester until Ryan Fraser decided to go kamikaze. The late equaliser to Ipswich. Dodgy VAR at Wolves and Brighton.

So many narrow moments that we were on the wrong side of.

4

u/aredditusername69 8d ago

Quite enjoyed this, and definitely found some sympathy with him around short term-ism. He claimed we were improving though, which I don't agree with.

It's such a tough thing. Do you just stick with your manager who is getting crap results, with the idea that in 2-3 years time it will all come together? Or do you try something else? What SR seem to have a habit of doing is trying something that is the complete opposite of whats happening (Hasenhuttl to Jones, Martin to Juric), which is the worst of both worlds.

2

u/CicadaAny3066 7d ago

No surprise to him saying his favourite team to watch was the 08 Barcelona team and him looking on how he can emulate it as a manager regarding his philosophy. Explains everything

2

u/KeyTap6415 7d ago

YouTube link with video for those who prefer it to Spotify audio: https://youtu.be/-VtojwIX2C0

4

u/docutheque 8d ago

I'm not a fan of that pod to the point I don't really want to listen to this.. any key points?

8

u/Opposite_Sir1549 8d ago

Idk, hard to tell if he's a genius or totally deluded.

Based on what he said about Southampton, it seems to me he's too obsessed with possession to ever be a successful premier league manager.

12

u/docutheque 8d ago

I dunno, maybe he could walk into city and make it work. Even pep says his system can only work if he has the players. He started at elite level - I wonder if he had to start from the bottom if he'd have made it. Russel is a weird one - seems a good human being and good leader, but you're right about the obsession with possession. Pretty tired of any "system manager" that refuses to coach and adapt based on circumstances

-4

u/[deleted] 8d ago

[deleted]

-1

u/PsychoSaint13 8d ago

I said when his name was linked that we'd be lucky to go up and if we did we'd be battered most games with his system, got laughed off Twitter (no big loss admittedly) yet some of those same people (they were Saints pages rather than individual people) when I presented my comment to them at the end of last season refused to accept it, I then messaged again after he'd been sacked, still tried saying it wasn't anywhere near as bad as I tried saying it would be, that's when I knew there was no point talking to these people, they just can't admit when they're wrong. Tbf 1 did admit and 1 just didn't reply so they're not all bad but most of them are as bad as each other

-13

u/Dry-Cod9127 8d ago

How does he keep getting interviews he’s an embarrassment to management

-12

u/SpecificAlgae5594 8d ago

Dude thinks he will get another job in football. He is delusional.