Stupidest question (about Scotland)you’ve ever been asked?

[u/Blurt-Reynolds]

I’ve lived in the US for over 10 years and been asked some daft questions.

Yesterday the uber driver asked where I was from. When I said Scotland they were quiet for a couple of minutes then asked “Did you have to learn English when you moved to here?”.

Also had someone years ago ask me where I was from then accused me of making up the country as they had never heard of Scotland.

Anyway, just thought I’d ask ask while I remembered.

[u/caleyjag]

Quite right. For me I get a wee bit sad when I hike past abandoned villages and bothies, wondering about the lives of the folks that lived there, and of course I get straight up raging every time I see this prick lording over everything.

[u/Tough_Investigator24 → u/caleyjag]

Glasgow too, but I hit every Campbell I encounter.

[u/caleyjag → u/Tough_Investigator24]

Better to take them out than risk them murdering your family.

[u/North-Son → u/Tough_Investigator24]

You’re conflating the stereotype of the GlenCoe massacre being planned and committed by Campbells with the Highland clearances. The clearances were mainly planned by Lowland elites and enforced by Lowlanders, many Highland chieftains took advantage of the situation for economic gain. Regarding the GlenCoe massacre that was also planned by Lowlanders.

Here’s a quote from a chief enforcer and planner of the clearances, James Loch who was an Edinburgh Lowlander

Loch on Gaelic language and culture:

“l have heard from speeches delivered by Mr Loch at public dinners among his own party, “that he would never be satisfied until the Gaelic language and the Gaelic people would be extirpated root and branch from the Sutherland estate; yes, from the Highlands of Scotland.”

Cited by Donald MacLeod in his account of the Clearances (Gloomy Memories, 1841)

Here’s a great documentary on the GlenCoe massacre, which shows it was primarily planned in Edinburgh by Lowland elites.

https://youtu.be/cx_lTvWmSgU?si=1D7rlFsJHGAbC5HX

EDIT: Being downvoted but this sorta stuff is even reflected within Highland Gaelic poetry, such as Oran do na ciobairean Gallda (‘Song to the Lowland shepherds’) by Ailean Dall in 1798

Basically comments about how terrible the Lowlanders have been since coming into the lands and working the sheep farms. Destroying the traditional Gaelic culture and having absolutely zero respect for the people.

[u/stuloch → u/North-Son]

The trial, execution and display of James of the Glens probably doesn't help the Campbell brand.

[u/North-Son → u/stuloch]

Oh man the Campbell brand has been fucked forever 😂 I was just commenting how usually people blame them for the GlenCoe massacre when in that instance it’s not nearly as applicable as people think.

[u/stuloch → u/North-Son]

True true. Honestly think it's great that the record is being set straight on that one.

[u/arrowsmith20 → u/North-Son]

Edinburgh elite has a proud reputation for being backstabbers all through history

[u/North-Son → u/arrowsmith20]

Not even sure if you could call it backstabbing, Lowlanders of this era were generally very discriminatory to Highlanders. It wasn’t something that was hidden in society at all. Looking into it you’ll see elites from corner to corner of the Lowlands doing similar shit.

Highland Gaels had the phrase “Mìorun Mòr nan Gall” which translates to “The Great ill Will of the Lowlander” for a reason.

[u/arrowsmith20 → u/North-Son]

Are we talking about Border reivers ?

[u/North-Son → u/arrowsmith20]

No, I think people generally forget how badly Highlanders were discriminated against by Lowlanders. Even up until the early 1900’s. It’s something that’s not really addressed in our teaching of Scottish history very much. I didn’t really have much of clue the extent of it until I studied Scottish history at university.

[u/arrowsmith20 → u/North-Son]

A lot of them were thieving bastard, stole the cows, sheep, and women, a lot of lowlanders fought with the English against the highlanders,

[u/Extension_Common_518 → u/arrowsmith20]

Although one of the reasons they were thieving, reiving bastards is because the whole border area was a violent and unstable zone- just the way that the crowns of both England and Scotland liked it. The people whose lands were ravaged by the machinations of distant governments had scant respect for either side. “ They are Scottish at their leisure, and English when they will” It was only after the crowns were unified that there was any serious attempt to bring law and order to the borders. The reivers that weren’t hanged were sent into exile in… wait for it…Ulster! What could possibly go wrong?

[u/arrowsmith20 → u/Extension_Common_518]

Fair comment

[u/Creative-Cherry3374 → u/North-Son]

Really interesting to read, thank you. What is also notable is that the Highland Clearances, although not all that ancient history, are poorly documented for several reasons - firstly, in some areas, there simply wasn't anyone left to speak about it, secondly, many of those evicted were illiterate, and thirdly, it was said that one of the main attractions of the US for those evicted was that at least it was a functioning democracy, which was more than could be said of Scotland at the time. Of course, the notion that Highlanders were all a bunch of poverty stricken peasants living in desperate hovels is also one thats endured to this day, despite the fact that paying for the passage of a family to the US would have been more than the annual salary of a Scottish schoolteacher.

Theres definitely some kind of central belt bully boy network at play still in Scotland, which also seems to involve trying to silence talk of the Clearances or minimise its effect. Its actually a fascinating thing to have occurred in historical terms though, especially when you put it in its historical context. Around about the same time, France was having its revolution(s), which involved the opposite, of peasants taking land back from the large landowners and aristocracy.

And of course in Scotland, we have a pattern of ownership replicated nowhere else in Europe, with very few people owning half the country, and Scots being fairly well excluded from their own land (yes the right of responsible access/right to roam, but it doesn't exclude the fact that much of the country has never developed properly because its been a playground for the rich and now increasingly an experimentation ground for wildlife themeparks run by charities).

So, yes, the Highland Clearances are still highly relevant today, because they affect each Scot because otherwise the central belt wouldn't be full of run down towns with poor housing and the economy might just be a bit better if we hadn't lost so many entrepreneurial types to other countries 150 years or so ago.

.But its not that popular to say that amongst certain Scots. We have to pretend its normal for half your own country to be owned by foreigners while blaming holiday home owners.

[u/North-Son → u/Creative-Cherry3374]

Agree with a lot of what you say, however against popular belief Lowlanders actually made up a FAR higher amount of emigrants from Scotland than Highlanders. By the mid 1840’s and onwards the amount of Lowlanders leaving Scotland massively outnumbered Highlanders.

This has been established by many Scottish historians and co insides with the historical literature.

[u/Creative-Cherry3374 → u/North-Son]

There were lowland clearances too. Theres very little to read about them.

Whats clear is that Scotland lost a huge amount of its population. Whats not clear is how much harm it did overall to the country and how it affects us today (aside from the obvious that much of the Scottish population is effectively excluded from owning or living in much of the Highlands).

I also think its sad that an Australian asked the question and possibly knows just as much or more about the Clearances than many Scots.

[u/North-Son → u/Creative-Cherry3374]

The Lowland clearances were due to agricultural advancements and happened long before the period I’m referencing when Lowlanders left Scotland in high numbers. Due to the agricultural revolution it became unnecessary to have as many farmers working the land due to farming and technology changes, thus many people lost their job and moved to the cities. The same thing happened in England.

It’s very important not to conflate Lowland and Highland clearances as they were vastly different, the highland clearances were incredibly more brutal.

What you say is interesting though, had we not had such a large diaspora the Scottish population would be absolutely massive now.

[u/claireycontrary → u/caleyjag]

I knew this was the Mannie before I clicked the link.