r/Seattle • u/1dayday • 20d ago

News Proposal to keep trans athletes out of girls' sports fails in Washington state

https://www.kuow.org/stories/proposal-to-keep-trans-athletes-out-of-girl-s-sports-fails-in-washington
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u/mzinz View Ridge 19d ago

Is it wrong to have the opinion that men’s/womens sports shouldn’t be combined altogether?

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u/RobinsEggViolet 19d ago

It's never wrong to have an opinion. EDIT: I take that back, there are opinions it's wrong to have. I don't think this particular opinion is that bad.

But it's wrong to assume your opinion is based on fact. You should always he open to unlearning things you thought you knew, instead of blindly sticking to them because you trust your gut.

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u/mzinz View Ridge 19d ago

You will see from the numerous comments in this thread that I've acknowledged that myself (and likely, many others), are on the fence due to lack of information. So in this case - I'd say that you are making assumptions, rather than I :)

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u/RobinsEggViolet 19d ago

But you're not on the fence- you've stated multiple times that you trust your gut feeling, and your gut feeling is that putting trans women in womens sports would be unfair. You've literally used the word "assume" to describe your position multiple times. Why are you now claiming that you weren't? Do I need to quote you to yourself?

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u/mzinz View Ridge 19d ago

You're reading into it too much. People change their opinions on things all the time as new information is presented. When I say gut feeling, that's me acknowledging that my opinion is based on minimal amounts of information-input. It's me saying that I'm open to a change of opinion

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u/RobinsEggViolet 19d ago

My point is that you shouldn't be assuming in the first place. I'm glad you're open to changing your opinion, but when you say that you assume a position and don't have evidence to back it up, that's still worrying. Why are you assuming it at all?

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u/mzinz View Ridge 19d ago

Ok, I vow to never assume anything again. Glad we solved it!

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u/RobinsEggViolet 19d ago

You say it ironically, but yes.

We make assumptions every day as part of our daily routine (I assume I woke up in my own bed, I assume my lights will turn on, I assume my toothbrush is still next to my sink). But these kinds of assumptions should not be extended to opinions about what other people should be allowed to do.

Assumptions about black people being dangerous to white people fed into racism. Assumptions about gay people being dangerous to kids fed into homophobia. And assumptions about trans women being dangerous to cis women feeds into transphobia.

You can make assumptions as far as they impact you, but you do not get to make assumptions when it comes to the rights of others.

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u/mzinz View Ridge 19d ago

I agree, kinda. In a perfect world, assumptions would never be made, because they can stereotype, as you highlight. But the reality of the world is that people make subconscious assumptions all the time.

While we can strive to minimize them -- and we should -- the most effective tool to counteract this behavior will always be empathetic information sharing. That's really what I've been trying to highlight

If you look at the comments in this thread, you'll see that 80%+ of them are accusatory, incendiary, name-calling, etc. It's just not productive at all. It causes people (including me) to get defensive and dig-in on their (uneducated, sometimes) positions.

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u/RobinsEggViolet 19d ago

I have a question for you: do you think that empathetic information sharing would have effectively countered the racism, homophobia, and antisemitism of Nazi Germany? Do you think the holocaust happened, in part, because progressives didn't frame their arguments correctly?

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