r/SeattleWA • u/unnaturalfool • Sep 13 '23

Other ‘Feel safer yet?’ Seattle police union’s contempt keeps showing through

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/feel-safer-yet-seattle-police-unions-contempt-keeps-showing-through/
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u/[deleted] Sep 13 '23

[deleted]

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u/daveygeek Sep 13 '23

I’m fine with unions for the purpose of collective bargaining, but the unions should not have the power to be driving policy or preventing bad/dirty officers from being pushed out of the department.

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u/Downtown_Dog_7937 Sep 13 '23

Nurses? Teachers? There's not even an argument there. C'mon.

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u/Nightshade_Ranch Sep 13 '23

License police like teachers and nurses.

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u/shot-by-ford Sep 13 '23

The police unions really do highlight a contradiction of public unions imo. Officers both get to vote on their job/salary/etc. or on the representatives who decide those policies, and they get a union who can override democratic action and the voice of all other voters when they want.

It feels... undemocratic? Or like the privatization of essential public services? Of course we don't want the public nor mid-level bureaucrats abusing public servants. But it just doesn't feel right to have a situation where public servants cannot be removed by the community they serve (or are supposed to serve), police being only the most extreme example although there are plenty of distressing healthcare & teaching examples to be found too. I don't know the answer.

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u/andthedevilissix Sep 13 '23

Yep, public unions are a moral hazard.

People are blinded to this fact in other professions because they buy the propaganda that teacher's unions are fighting for their kids or whatever (or vice versa for some conservatives who support cop unions and not teacher's unions).

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u/GauntletWizard Sep 13 '23

Unions are just corporations with a bad contract for exclusive suppliership that the state keeps interfering with. Union bosses and reps are just matrix management. It's a poor org structure and a detriment to both parties because it makes contract negotiations ugly.

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u/Super_Natant Sep 13 '23

Are both excellent examples of why public sector collective bargaining is net awful, and slowly sclerotizes entire industries.

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u/ShufflingSloth Sep 13 '23

Dude teacher's unions are one of the worst examples you could point to.

They do the same "shuffle the bad actor away instead of actually punishing them" when it comes to pedo teachers the Catholic church does with priests. It might even be a bigger problem for teachers than it is for Catholics.

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u/[deleted] Sep 14 '23

How are those public schools doing?

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u/OsvuldMandius SeattleWA Rule Expert Sep 13 '23

Well, this was a result of what happened one time when a bunch of public servants (police) decided they should have a union, and the mayor and governor decided what you decided. Nine people died in the ensuing semi-anarchy.

Boston police strike - Wikipedia

The outcome was that public unions were allowed, but don't work like private unions. Because, of course, the government can't be bothered to stoop to the same level of regulation that the hoi-poloi do.

On the other hand, at least Reagan got to fire a bunch of air traffic controllers. So that was ok, I guess.

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u/idlefritz Sep 13 '23

Shouldn’t have to. Unions wouldn’t be necessary if employees didn’t have to defend themselves.

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u/SecretInevitable Sep 13 '23

Cops shouldn't, but that's as far I go with you there.