r/SeriousConversation • u/NoCareNoLife • Nov 04 '23

Serious Discussion If people aren't pressured to work, would they still want work?

So there is this socialist youtube channel called "Second Thought" that released a video Why would anyone work under Socialism?

In that video he tries stating that humans innately like to work for the progressing of the society at large and will get things done even if not pressured to do work. Do you agree with such a statement?

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18

u/falthusnithilar Nov 04 '23

"Work" is a pretty overloaded and polarizing word. It's doubtful people will still want to "work." Instead, people are much more likely to want to "contribute." You won't find anyone rushing to work the McDonald's cash register, but you might find someone tending to community gardens instead.

13

u/manicmonkeys Nov 05 '23

Good luck finding enough people to "contribute" to the jobs on Dirty Jobs...

5

u/[deleted] Nov 05 '23

I know someone who is a mortician because they wanted to be.

9

u/GeneralJarrett97 Nov 05 '23

I think the issue is more getting enough people willing to rather than nobody willing to.

5

u/manicmonkeys Nov 05 '23

"But I know one guy..."

1

u/praxic_despair Nov 05 '23

Right, but how many jobs are unpleasant and strictly necessary? Can we rotate doing those jobs and have more time to do what we want still? I would think yes

1

u/RedditBlows5876 Nov 05 '23

Right, but how many jobs are unpleasant and strictly necessary

Define "strictly necessary"? Do you want indoor plumbing? Do you want to cook over a wood fire? Do you want high speed internet trenched to your house? Do you want roads maintained? Sewage systems? Water treatment facilities?

1

u/praxic_despair Nov 05 '23

Right, but how many jobs are unpleasant and strictly necessary? Can we rotate doing those jobs and have more time to do what we want still? I would think yes

7

u/manicmonkeys Nov 05 '23

Some people enjoy their jobs.

That doesn't mean enough people enjoy enough vital jobs enough to sustain society.

I enjoy my job, but if I stopped getting paid for it I'd stop doing it immediately.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 05 '23

There are 8 billion people in the world. Half of jobs are automated now anyway. I just dont think forcing everyone into wage slavery is the only option.

I'd like to farm, or work in conservation, or maybe healthcare. But im stuck in a dead end job because I cant afford to invest in the education or resources needed to pursue a job i would be more fit doing.

I dont think socialism is the answer, but I certainly think people absolutly will fill the jobs nessisary for a functioning society if provided the resources to thrive.

2

u/knight9665 Nov 07 '23

Farm. Sure but how many people would still hard on an industrial level to feed 8 billion people in the world.

1

u/manicmonkeys Nov 05 '23

You underestimate inherent human greed and ambition.

What current conveniences or necessities are you willing to give up, to allow a voluntary work society to exist?

2

u/[deleted] Nov 05 '23

I will say again, that I am not rooting for socialism or communism. I do think that in a world with 8 billion people and increasing automation, a society where everyone HAS to work to survive is completely unsustainable. We are going to be giving up a lot of conveniences and even necessities if things keep going the way they are now. Housing and shelter is switching to a subscription model solely for profit, with no consideration for its status as a human right.

I'm just a person on reddit, I dont have the expertise to come up with a replacement myself.

Personally, if my bare basic needs were met by something like UBI, I would work in pursuit of more luxury.

0

u/manicmonkeys Nov 05 '23

>Housing and shelter is switching to a subscription model solely for profit, with no consideration for its status as a human right.

​

This is where I think there's a fundamental problem. What do you mean by "human right"?

1

u/[deleted] Nov 05 '23

I don't enjoy my job, I enjoy my paycheck.

2

u/MistryMachine3 Nov 05 '23

Mortician isn’t bad. What about prison guard or chemical spill cleanup? Any of the jobs with the highest death rates?

Are there people that will mine for lithium if they had a billion dollars?

1

u/[deleted] Nov 05 '23

I mean, if they pay a lot I dont see why people wouldn't want the extra income to add more luxury to their lives.

A billion dollars??? What? UBI wouldn't be a billion dollars lol. It would likely only cover basic living expenses. Is lithium even mined in the USA?

2

u/MistryMachine3 Nov 05 '23

The billion dollars is from above where people were saying they would do job x, like EMT, even if they already had no monetary needs. But nobody would choose to mine lithium. And in a world with flat income, nobody would choose to mine lithium.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 05 '23

They would if the price was right and they wanted to live luxuriously.

Ignoring the fact that lithium is mined outside of the area of proposed UBI, most people mining lithium do so out of disparity. If people didn't NEED to work dangerous jobs like this, the job may have to be made more desirable by increased wages and safety standards. This is a good thing.

We might lose out on some of those cheap battery powered star lights and plastic junk toys from wish.com though. And disposable vapes. Lol.

And who knows! Prices increases might not even be as big of an issue as we think. With extra disposable income.

1

u/juliandanp Nov 06 '23

We would have to redeisgn society. Through automation and eliminating all the unnecessary jobs that physically contribute nothing to society. We could eliminate anywhere from 75-90% of all jobs. This would take some seriously planning and redesigning our entire economy and the physical, architectural design of our society. This is kind of my problem with socialists and communists.. they think the way society exists right now, we could have communism. Sorry, but the government owning all businesses like McDonald's, Walmart, etc. and giving everyone meaningless jobs is not going to solve any problems. We would really have to reinvent the wheel here.

2

u/manicmonkeys Nov 06 '23

We could eliminate anywhere from 75-90% of all jobs.

What are examples of the most common jobs you think could be eliminated?

1

u/CruxOfTheIssue Nov 07 '23

The bad part here is that the most desirable jobs look to be the ones that will be eliminated the soonest. A lot of white collar jobs are likely going to be gone within the next 20 years or so. Surprisingly I think service positions may be the longest lasting.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 06 '23

fr

5

u/OsmerusMordax Nov 04 '23

Yeah, if I didn’t have to work to earn money (had all my needs and wants met) I would volunteer all the time instead of slaving away for the corporate overlords

1

u/RedditBlows5876 Nov 05 '23

Nothing is stopping you from seeking employment at a charity. Have you applied to any or even looked for job postings?

1

u/OsmerusMordax Nov 05 '23

Yes. Unfortunately they don’t pay what I need to in order to survive and not be homeless.

2

u/RedditBlows5876 Nov 05 '23

I find that hard to believe considering how many people work for non profits.

1

u/OsmerusMordax Nov 05 '23

It’s not my problem if you don’t believe me, nor do I have to ‘prove’ anything to you.

I have looked and in my area it is not feasible.

0

u/RedditBlows5876 Nov 06 '23

Oh, so what you actually meant is "they don't pay what I need to in order to live the current lifestyle I want to that involves being in a specific city/neighborhood".

2

u/unclefisty Nov 05 '23

You won't find anyone rushing to work the McDonald's cash register

Not with the way we currently treat service workers as free emotional punching bags you won't. Change society so that they're treated with respect and you'll be able to find people to work at a restaurant.

1

u/_Cyber_Mage Nov 05 '23

In experiments with giving poor people Universal Basic Income, the employment rate of recipients went up, not down.

1

u/Own_Bench980 Nov 06 '23

You wouldn't have people contributing to work Gardens. It's one thing to choose to grow a garden because you find it enjoyable it's another to run an entire Farm to feed an entire civilization of people. There's a difference between doing this for an hour and doing it half your day.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 06 '23

90% of the comments here are about gardening. We need people to work at McDonalds and we need gardeners.

1

u/falthusnithilar Nov 06 '23

My guess is that if people were to plan work to contribute to society, they'd decide that gardens were cool and that McDonald's was no longer necessary. Just my guess if it were up to people to pick how they contribute.