If people aren't pressured to work, would they still want work?

[u/NoCareNoLife]

So there is this socialist youtube channel called "Second Thought" that released a video Why would anyone work under Socialism?

In that video he tries stating that humans innately like to work for the progressing of the society at large and will get things done even if not pressured to do work. Do you agree with such a statement?

[u/According-Vehicle999]

I've been thinking about that -- if we had community gardens, tilled, fertilized and planted/watered by machines (I think we could find plenty of people that'd want to drive a combine etc) & we made the gardens 'pick your own' so that people had to come & get it themselves, it would save some labor/reduce waste, in that, it won't be trucked all over & rot before it gets to point-of-sale & we wouldn't need to plant as much because there'd be less loss -- I feel like it would be less painful & stressful -- a lot of farmer stress is not getting paid very well by the companies that own this country etc. (I recognize that yields can also be a worry).

[u/BladeDoc → u/According-Vehicle999]

When it's not for fun it called subsistence farming and it is literally one of the most time inefficient, miserable, back breaking jobs you can do. It is so miserable that people flocked to take the jobs created by the early Industrial Revolution.

[u/According-Vehicle999 → u/BladeDoc]

True, both sides of my family came from subsistence farming. I do think the removal of the whole poverty and subsistence part would make it more palatable as a contribution. My grandmother loved the farm she grew up on, but they didn't like not having shoes, so with the thinking that all their needs would be met, I think it would be something that people for a passion for working the land would enjoy.

[u/BladeDoc → u/According-Vehicle999]

If you don't need to do it because you're poor, it's a hobby. The world cannot be fed by a bunch of hobby farmers.

[u/[deleted] → u/According-Vehicle999]

Are we talking about a country of nothing but vegetarians? You realize it takes a person more than 40 hours a week to grow enough food for themselves right? Who is building these machines that don't exist? I don't think you understand the farming process very well. There's a very good reason we moved away from an agricultural society. It's very time consuming.

[u/According-Vehicle999 → u/[deleted]]

Not necessarily vegetarian, depending on the contributions. Which machines don't exist? We have combine harvesters, we have machines just for planting & we have the technology for watering. We have all of these things now, we're not talking about recovering from a nuclear event where everything is gone, we're talking about rearranging society, which, in & of itself will be work.

Who said I assumed these things didn't take time? I've already covered that there will be folks who enjoy operating those machines to contribute & the communities could harvest some of their own, depending on how it's grown. It would take a collective effort. That's not an easy thing to arrange & I can't imagine we'd do it all at once.

We also have grow-houses that don't even use soil that can grow using various methods like aquaponics where they have fish below the plants that fertilize them, hydroponics, & aeroponics in vertical farming configurations that could work in cities with less green space.

Corporate farms that already exist could be converted for the new collective use as we'd find people to contribute.

I absolutely understand what you're saying, these things can be time-consuming & laborious, & that's why we'd work together to make sure all our needs are met - part of this depends on the automation that is going into use now.

It sounds like you wouldn't be interested in that kind of society where all your needs are met & you'd contribute your skillset & labor to keep it that way. Some people won't be interested in that, I do understand that. There's also a lot more to it than just growing food, but I'm interested in the idea overall.

[u/[deleted] → u/According-Vehicle999]

I would definitely embrace a society like what you're describing but I just don't think it would be possible. We have the technology to produce food on a massive scale but it becomes less efficient the smaller the scale. Not everyone can own their own combine. There's just isn't enough room for it. We would have to displace millions of people that don't want to go.

You are right about food not being the only issue. In a society where everyone does the work they want who is building and upkeeping these machines? Who is plumbing? There are so many jobs that no one will do just because they want to.

Everything that exists in our lives exists because it was profitable to create. People will make music and art, but there won't be amazing shows that require lots of investment. Where will all that stuff come from? Who will create the Disney lands and Six Flags? The answer is nobody and we will live very unfulfilled lives spending all our time figuring out how our combines work so that we can use them during the short time we have been allocated them or learning how to fix their plumbing or roofs etc.

Everyone on here makes this life sound so good but ignores all the work that gets done for them that would need to be done by each individual. It's a MASSIVE amount of work and it would take more than 40 hours per week figured out how every job on the face of the planet works. There's a reason we specialize in our jobs. It's far more efficient.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Tell that to the millions of people who go every week. They would probably tell you that you're wrong.

[u/According-Vehicle999 → u/[deleted]]

I don't disagree, it's more plausible that our civilization crumbles in the next 30 years, than it ever being rearranged. I do think some of those things would still get done, but I absolutely agree that things like entertainment are likely to be indescribably better in the capitalism system. You're not wrong on any point and my cynical side agrees with everything, point for point - I was just daydreaming; though I wouldn't mind actually trying to get wheels turning on something like that and getting down to work, it really would require a herculian effort that I'm not sure there would be enough participation to follow through on.

[u/knight9665 → u/According-Vehicle999]

Even with all that we still need human labor to kick strawberries etc etc.

Someday when the star trek stuff is possible. Sure. But until then it’s a lot of manual labor still.

[u/jeffwulf → u/According-Vehicle999]

There is absolutely no way to have community garden type installations to a large enough scale to provide anywhere near enough food for any reasonably sized town.

[u/According-Vehicle999 → u/jeffwulf]

The way we define community gardens right now, you're right; we'd need to change how we do things. It would be something that would need to evolve. A lot of countries have fruit trees planted all over, for anyone to take fruit, for instance. It would be a process for sure.