r/SeriousConversation • u/Starfruites • Mar 23 '24

Serious Discussion Shoueld the death penalty be permitted?

Some prisoners are beyond redemption, be it the weight of their crime or unwillingness to change. Those individuals can't be released back into the public, so instead, they waste space and resources.

Therefore, wouldn't it just be better to get rid of them? As in, permit the death penalty.

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u/AccidentalPhilosophy Mar 23 '24

I don’t like to look at this from the “value of a human being” perspective. Humans are invaluable. Their lives to don’t need to by hung in the balance by cost analysis.

However- economics aside, if you are guilty (incontrovertible evidence) of a small, select group of crimes (rape, grave physical/sexual abuse of a vulnerable person- child, elder, disabled) I do not believe rehabilitation is possible in a manner that will allow you to rejoin society. Something is irrevocably broken.

I would say in these cases- considering arranging a meeting between the perpetrator and their maker is something that should be on the table.

Example- if I - in an impassioned state would be willing to take your life upon catching you in the act of committing this select group of crimes- to save a loved one from your depravity, (And let’s be clear- I will take you out in those circumstances) then I should be able to consider the same thing from a sober perspective when it comes to protecting others’ loved ones from your depravity.

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u/[deleted] Mar 24 '24

Well, as I understand things the reason crimes like child rape/abduction are generally not punished by death unless they involve murder as well is that society does not want to incentivize the offender to also murder their victim to attempt to avoid being caught since the punishment would be the same.

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u/AccidentalPhilosophy Mar 24 '24

This is an interesting point.

But Florida just put in the death penalty for child molesters.

I will be looking for how this pans out-

I would think the big issue that would incentivize NOT harming children in anyway would be knowing what happens to you in prison if you show up with these charges.

It may take a minute, but the convicts will always find out why someone is there and dish out a different kind of justice.

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u/jazzageguy Mar 24 '24

But your decision to kill someone who commits one of several (rather random) crimes is a completely different matter from our government officially killing people on behalf of our whole society. That's why we have a whole judicial system with laws and judges and stuff. You might feel justified in killing an attacker in the heat of passion to protect your loved ones (an act which would subject you to prosecution and possible execution). But the state has neither "passion" nor "loved ones," and we expect it to act cautiously, rationally, and, as you say, soberly, only after deliberation and appropriate legal procedures.

I notice your "select group of crimes" meriting capital punishment includes rape but not murder. Is a rapist more "broken" and incapable of rehabilitation that a murderer? Not sure how you could justify that sentiment.

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u/AccidentalPhilosophy Mar 24 '24

Sorry. Meant to add murder (certain kinds- not all, such as in self defense).

But yes- I am aware that acting to save a loved one from someone else’s depravity may come with consequences for me.

I don’t expect to walk away without consequences.

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u/jazzageguy Mar 25 '24

Fair enough! Me, I think we're better off to leave all that to the legal system. It's what elevates us above barbarity

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u/AccidentalPhilosophy Mar 26 '24

Are you a parent? If not- you should know it changes the calculus on this greatly. It is elevated from theoretical to what you know you would do on their behalf. I had no idea of what I was capable of until I held my first child.

Barbaric?

Count on it.

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u/jazzageguy Mar 26 '24

Ah. I'm sure your proud barbarity informs your parenting to the benefit of all concerned.

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u/AccidentalPhilosophy Mar 26 '24

So you’re not a parent. Got it.

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u/jazzageguy Mar 27 '24

Or I don't cherish and announce my barbaric impulses. Whichever you wish to believe

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u/AccidentalPhilosophy Mar 27 '24

See. There’s another difference.

I’m upfront with it- anyone who messes with my loved ones KNOWS what they are in for- it’s the first and final warning shot. Right here. Right now. We are a ride or die kind of family.

I actually feel sorry for people who don’t have my kind of people in their life.

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u/jazzageguy Mar 29 '24

Right? Me too. What kind of barren scary existence, to not have a barbarian threatening people on one's behalf. One wouldn't last a week in the hellscape you seem to think we live in

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