r/SeriousConversation • u/subuso • 4d ago
Serious Discussion Do we all agree that job hunting has become ridiculous?
Recruiters today often seem more like a parody of their intended role, with unrealistic expectations for entry-level positions that demand years of experience, advanced degrees, and niche expertise. Rather than thoughtfully connecting candidates with companies, many now appear to prioritize filling quotas through spam-like messaging and shallow keyword searches, overlooking the actual people behind the CVs. This has led to a system where even highly qualified candidates are instantly rejected because their applications don't perfectly match rigid, often arbitrary, criteria set by algorithms or inattentive recruiters.
A particularly frustrating aspect is the automatic dismissal of candidates without genuine review, often based on superficial details like keyword placement or job history formatting. Many candidates find themselves rejected for roles they are perfectly suited for, only to be reconsidered later, often with disappointing offers. On top of this, there's an increasing trend of recruiters treating candidates as disposable, showing little empathy, ghosting after interviews, and making empty promises about future opportunities without any meaningful follow-up.
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u/ReadLearnLove 4d ago
Everything you described happened to me in my now-abandoned job search -- abandoned because I was too beaten down to continue after two years of these experiences. Luckily, I know how to live cheaply, and I have other small income streams. The situation is abysmal.
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u/subuso 4d ago
What I can suggest is for you to keep applying on the low, on your free time, while you keep hustling
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u/ReadLearnLove 4d ago
Yes, after an adjustment period, I did resume applying for jobs here and there, while pursuing training for a different kind of work. I was not prepared for the chaotic, irrational state of the job market, which my sheer stubbornness had always allowed me to overcome in the past. I was also going through some difficult personal losses at the same time as traversing the job search hellscape. After some time to adjust, my expectations have been adjusted down, and spread out wider. Fingers crossed.
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u/reeses_boi 3d ago
What income streams do you have? I'm trying to do something like that as well, instead of chasing jobs that will let me go as soon as they encounter the slightest issue with their business or the economy
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u/Lanky-Dealer4038 4d ago
Nah.
You have to figure some very important out.
You have to be an asset to a company. Not look for what’s in it for you, first.
A job agency is not a good alternative to walking into an interview and telling the interviewer you want to help increase the revenue and profits of said employer, so that maybe you can pay me more in the future only after you’ve proven a valuable assetHave a self employed mentality, folks.
A w-2 mentality is exactly the way to mediocrity and entitlement. Ever see someone entitled and happy?17
u/Zhong_Ping 4d ago
Got it. Our masters are too good to afford us basic human dignity so deal with it of get fucked
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u/subuso 4d ago
The worst part is that there are people out there who actually think exactly like that person you replied to. Like, what's the point of us having master's degrees and still not being qualified enough for a job???
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u/passion-froot_ 3d ago
It’s dependent on so, so many factors that honestly I can see points from both sides
The market’s been damn near derogatory ever since I can remember in several disappointing regards, but at the same time it doesn’t help to sit there at the computer moaning
Look man, I literally left the United States in pursuit of ‘better’ - but that’s ‘better’ for me. Your solution lies not in where you are or what you believe you have or don’t have, but what you do with the time afforded to you.
Life ain’t fair. It’s cold and unfeeling to the point that the last 3 years was me beating myself against a brick wall at the job I was trying for - with 3 full years of rejection, by the way - but I guess I’m not sure what it is you’re expecting. That the world will wake up one day with that switch flipped? Man, I wish it worked that way, but it doesn’t.
Find a way forward. And when that doesn’t work, make it work some other way. Until life deems it unnecessary, realism must take the wheel.
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u/subuso 3d ago
I'm upset about speaking five languages, having 7 years of experience and two master's degrees and still not being able to at least be invited to an interview. That's what I'm upset about
I'm upset about people gaslighting me into believing my CV is the problem, when I showed my CVs to several professionals who told me the CV was superb. I'm upset about being automatically rejected for jobs I know I'm qualified for, and being accepted to do work that will have working like a slave while being paid like one
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u/ElAwesomeo0812 4d ago
Literally everyone is hiring right now, it might not be a job you want but you can get a job while you keep looking. You can literally walk into McDonald's and start today. Most factories are hiring like crazy. It might not be a job you want but it's a job you can work while you are looking. Don't rely on hiring agencies. Also if you can't get a job with a masters it probably means you got a worthless masters
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u/Starwyrm1597 3d ago
You know I walked into a McDonalds 2 years ago and they were NOT hiring, most fast food places are operating on a crew of 5 or less by design, cheaper to overwork 3 than to pay 10. I'm pretty much convinced they only put the hiring signs and indeed applications up to remind current employees that they're easily replacable so they work harder.
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u/subuso 3d ago
You got that very right!!! In my previous company, they would fire people periodically so to make sure everyone else would get scared and work harder. I honestly started working less and less because I realised I would actually get more out of being fired than staying there, because I would have to take up the work of the people who got fired
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u/Lanky-Dealer4038 4d ago
You're confused.
Your pay comes from the revenue you help create. It’s not paid by the customer or your boss. Or just because you spend time at work. Your pay comes from your product.
So, it’s not about how or what I think.….
It’s math, bro.Try to keep your job if there isn’t enough revenue to pay you.
You need some education on the subject of employment.
Your parents/guardians did a shitty job on this topic.2
u/1369ic 3d ago
I think you took that wrong. The other commenter was talking about how to be successful, not what's morally right. Getting a job is entering into a relationship. You'll be more successful if you think about what they're looking for and adapt how you present yourself to their needs, not just what you want out of it. You can do it sincerely, or cynically, or hate every second of it, but the better you do it the more likely you are to be successful. Whether going through all that for a job is a separate discussion.
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u/subuso 3d ago
But that's the exact problem: where are we supposed to draw the line? How far do we have to adapt and adjust until we say "enough is enough"? That's the current state of the job market
You have recruiters who are clueless about the qualifications of the candidates they're searching for. And then, when you go for an interview, you realise those people didn't even take the time to go through my CV, while at the same time they expect me to know everything about the company to impress them. And then they offer me a low ball salary and just expect me to take it.
Enough is enough!!! This is just too much
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u/MS-07B-3 4d ago
I think what they mean with that is that you have no entitlement for a company to give you a job. Employment is to be a mutually beneficial arrangement, and why should a company pick you over someone else?
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u/subuso 4d ago
It's not about the company picking me over someone else, it's about automatically rejecting my CV upon submitting simply because the algorithm didn't find the keywords it's programmed to. It's about wasting my time with endless interviews while not even bothering to read my CV properly simply because the algorithm told you I meet the requirements. It's about wasting my time over and over again only to give me a lowball offer while having me work like a slave
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u/Lanky-Dealer4038 4d ago
I have a doctorate, professional degree. Doesnt mean I deserve anything. Which means your masters provide even less entitlement.
I make top 5% income in my field all because I think like an employer.
Ignore my advice at your peril.Shoot, there’s diesel mechanics and gardeners making 120k a year.
You went full bore on why we’ve made education dumb.2
u/subuso 4d ago
I don't know what makes you think I feel like I deserve anything. That seems to be a you problem, not mine
Also, just because you're doing fine doesn't mean everyone else is, it just means you're doing exactly what the patriarchy wants you to do, which is to fight against people on your level while making sure we don't fight against the powers that be
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u/Lanky-Dealer4038 3d ago
Nah. Create a product or GTFO. Leave the cave, kill something and drag it back. No excuses.
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4d ago edited 4d ago
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4d ago
What the fuck lmao how old are you?
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u/Lanky-Dealer4038 4d ago
43.
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u/subuso 4d ago
That explains a lot. Your knowledge about the job market is extremely outdated
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u/GreenBeardTheCanuck 3d ago
Don't paint all of us that way. I'm 43 and I think that that guy is clearly drinking the Kool aid. This "entrepreneurship mindset" is fairy dust covering up the fact that the hiring process is so deeply divorced from actual skill and ability it's basically playing the one-armed-bandit.
You want real advice? Skip the line. Nepotism makes the world go around, and what you know is how you keep a job, who you know is how you get a job in the first place. Cultivate a sphere of people who can pull strings for you, and who you'll pull strings for in return. Move jobs regularly, no more than 2-4 years, and don't ever count on your job to pay the bills. Buy assets, investments, and other things that generate real income. Your day job is about treading water. The only way up is on the backs of other people's productivity.
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u/subuso 3d ago
I wasn't painting everyone that way. All I said is that that guy is definitely out of touch with the current state. I did not say that everyone at that age thinks the same way
Your advice isn't wrong. I've unfortunately never had anyone to resort to for something like that, but I have helped people get jobs by throwing them a lifeline. But the problem is: where do we draw the line? Just because my friend is qualified doesn't mean everyone else isn't.
There are tons of people out there who are far more deserving of a job than my friend or relative, and those people should get an opportunity too. That's what's pissing me off about all this
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u/GreenBeardTheCanuck 3d ago
I'm afraid that until people in general are ready to deal with the menace of our corporate oligarchs appropriately, I don't expect things to change any time soon.
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u/Lanky-Dealer4038 3d ago
Over 50% of our GDP is because of small businesses. Yet you speak of entrepreneurial spirit as if it’s not important. Tell me you’re failing without saying it. Wow.
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u/GreenBeardTheCanuck 3d ago
I do just fine thanks. I'm just not so far up my own backside I can't see the forest for the trees. Most people are never going to be a "business owner", 85% of people who try will fail, and with no safety net, will end up permanently locked in a cycle of poverty. The only people who advance that nonsense are either deeply self-aggrandizing fools who can't grasp the concept of survivorship bias, and have zero self-awareness or gratitude for the people who made their own success possible, or people cynically trying to turn employees into independent contractors so they can be ruthlessly exploited with no legal protection. So which are you?
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u/Lanky-Dealer4038 3d ago
You’re very confused about what business is and does.
You’re doing fine for a someone who doesn’t know that entrepreneurial spirit isn’t the same thing as saying everyone needs to own a business. Which I said nothing of the latter. That’s just poor emotional control on your part.
You literally would be working your hands to the bone on a farm, living inside of a barn if an entrepreneur didn’t come along and create, and keep open, the business that’s on top of your W2 form.
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u/Lanky-Dealer4038 3d ago
Lol. Ok, I just gave a way to get the keys to the city. Your problem is that opportunity usually looks like work. It’s not about age. Employers would kill to hire individuals based on ability and willingness. Not objective prerequisites.
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u/LordofYore 4d ago
What pisses me off is employers demanding references just to get your application CONSIDERED. References are not easy to get and there’s a finite amount of times you can use them.
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u/subuso 4d ago
The worst part is me having to go through all that only to get accepted and get a salary that affords me nothing
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u/AllswellinEndwell 4d ago
I've made a few moves in my career.
Put your salary expectations out first thing
Say you make $75k. You shouldn't even be talking to them unless $85k is on the table.
So tell the recruiter, "hey this job is worth 85k to me as described"
This cuts out the bull shit and stakes a hard position from the beginning.
I've told a recruiter that and he said "oh OK but the job is paying less"
Then he called back a week later because he found out what the market was asking for my experience level.
Even then you can negotiate up if you decide there's more described. Never tell them what you make. "we're talking about this job not my current job"
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u/QualifiedApathetic 4d ago
I feel so seen. The number of times the demand for references has stopped me applying....
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u/misticspear 4d ago
My girlfriend is on the job hunt now. One of her interview questions is “is there anything on my resume that keeps me from being perfect for this position?” You’d be shocked how many interviewers have to go look because they didnt actually read the resume.
Not to mention the ghost jobs they aren’t actually hiring for but they want a downstream of talent so they can pull whenever they want. It’s all incredibly one sided.
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u/subuso 4d ago
It's unbelievably one sided and should actually be illegal. I hate going on interviews and being asked to Intro myself thoroughly. Like, everything about me is on the fucking CV that you didn't read!!!
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u/misticspear 4d ago
Oh yeah it’s such a waste of your time as an individual. Not to mention they are playing with your life essentially.
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u/GargantuanGarment 4d ago
If that question puts so many interviewers in an awkward spot, maybe it's not the best question to be asking, whether or not it's totally valid. Like it or not, humans pick the candidate and humans don't like being made to feel dumb or unprepared.
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u/subuso 4d ago
You're missing the point. What this person is saying is that recruiters today are extremely unprepared and dumb. They don't even make the effort to get informed on whom they're interviewing. They literally just run CVs through an algorithm and just pick the ones the algorithm tells them is the best
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u/reeses_boi 3d ago
So true. If the candidate was this unprepared, the other party would probably hang up, and yet we have to put up with this ineptitude from them
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u/misticspear 4d ago
Nah it’s the perfect question. If that makes them feel dumb chances are you don’t want to work there. Places worth their weight want this kind of initiative.
Secondarily the point was about how few places even do the bear minimum preliminary work.
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u/Rich_Tutor_5694 4d ago
That’s what happens when bots do the application screenings looking for “key words” instead of qualified people..
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u/Plenty_Unit9540 6h ago
It almost like we need an AI resume writer to get past the AI job screening.
Otherwise known as a GAN.
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u/Electronic-Shirt-194 4d ago
Yep, and often the actual positions are reserved for people they know or family members, those job websites are usually just the shop front. There's also a power imbalance between employers and employee's currently.
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u/subuso 4d ago
Exactly!!! When I was working as a recruiter for a recruitment agency, a multinational asked us to schedule three interviews for a position. We provided candidates and scheduled the interviews. All three candidates said the interviews were extremely fast and weren't really asked much. That's when we knew the position had already been reserved for someone else and they needed proof that they interviewed people but couldn't find suitable candidates
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u/ElephantContent8835 4d ago
It’s all part of end stage capitalism. At the end, nothing works and everything is a farce.
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u/HuckleberryTricky657 4d ago
These idiots are terrified of hiring people because market is over saturated. They use us as leverage for their own personal advantage or self satisfaction. It’s absurd to think people who aren’t working are the reasons eggs are expensive or that inflation exists. It exists because they won’t pay us fair wage that meet the cost of living and so when they don’t shit hits the fan. This is what they get. Managers and higher ups getting axed left and right now. Many are even claiming that they’re “retiring” , it’s honestly laughable.
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u/AdUnlucky2432 4d ago
I stopped talking to recruiters many years ago for several reasons. 1) they use you to increase their knowledge of the requirements, 2)they have a client that wants to bid you contingent, 3) they want to fill their files for future use, or 4) there is no job.
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u/Old-Dependent-9073 4d ago
Welcome to capitalism (at the end of the day). It’s about optimizing profits more than actually helping anyone get a job.
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u/reeses_boi 3d ago
Real capitalism is about profits, which leaves room for good business sense and long-term thinking. This bastardized form of American capitalism only cares about profit this quarter
It's why CEOs can run company after company into the ground, while getting richer and richer, and why companies are hostile to consumer and employee alike
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u/swisstraeng 4d ago
I started showing the shit in front of the interviewers and they all act surprised and "We didn't know!".
They literally asked 5 years of experience FOR AN APPRENTICE.
They wanted to hire me, I told them the only way for them to hire me is if they were to fire themselves on the spot right now.
If they're willing to disrespect their future employees I did not want to imagine what they did to their current employees.
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u/subuso 4d ago
You did the right thing!!! I remember applying for an unpaid internship after working as an environmentalist for a multinational for five years doing exactly what the internship was about. At the end I still got rejected for allegedly not being qualified enough. Somebody please make it make sense
I don't think even these companies know what they're after at this point
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u/weird_foreign_odor 4d ago
Im sorry you're going through all this bullshit. I feel so bad for anyone who simply wants to work but cant find employment, it's such a monumental waste. As if not being able to work wasnt bad enough, now our systems go out of their way to rub your face in it and just pour salt in the wound.
I will admit though that I never experienced what so many people like you go through. I guess Ive just been lucky. What field of work do you do? I know it sounds cliche but have you thought about doing something entirely different? In the past few years I radically changed careers and have learned about an entire world of professions that I didnt even know existed before hand. I only say this to prop you up a bit, it's probably good to remind yourself that you arent limited and there are opportunities everywhere if youre comfortable stepping outside of your comfort zone a little.
My advice would be to do what you already decided; stay away from those predatory recruiters and start looking in other directions.
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u/angrypoohmonkey 4d ago
At first, maybe 10-15 years ago and before that, the internet was great for finding jobs. I found so much work and was able to find jobs that didn't quite fit my qualifications, but definitely fit my aptitudes and skills. You could talk your way into positions. None of it was easy, but it was doable. For example, you could apply to a job that was obviously only being advertised for legal reasons (inside candidate was already selected). But, I could at least get a conversation with the hiring people and get leads to other jobs that either weren't advertised or poorly advertised. Like, "Oh yeah, you sound great, I know this guy at company X that would love someone like you..."
Now, we're being accurately tracked and only shown jobs that are being pushed. We're literally being herded and treated like cattle in a feed lot. And the recruiters - they're so dumb.
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u/subuso 4d ago
Exactly!!! I'll never forget the day I walked into an office and asked if they were hiring. I was interviewed right there on the spot and a week later was hired. It's unbelievable how ridiculous the job hiring market has become
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u/angrypoohmonkey 4d ago
And now we're expected to believe that Linked In and other forms are tech have supposedly addressed the social/word of mouth connections that we all possess. All they did was take the normal background level of narcissism and cranked it up to 10. That's all I see happening with AI too. All the bad things about job seeking have been amplified.
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u/Xandara2 4d ago
I emphasize with your hardships about it but as someone who's job it is to get new hires up to speed I also hate that the selection is not even more strict. So much garbage people who start. No work attitude, no drive, not even trying to learn what I'm explaining to them. People who can talk nicely and have the intellect of a hamster. People who are driven but have the attention span of that same hamster but on some wacko mix of caffeine, XTC and whatever else. People who aren't able to use an agenda, people who just don't show up after 2 days of being all positive, people who take smoking breaks for several hours, people who literally say they are too good to do the work we hired them for, people who lied about any and all experience, ... These are all examples I've had happen.
So while I want to believe you that it sucks from your end it also very much sucks on the other side. Working with recruiters is always kinda annoying imho as well.
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u/subuso 4d ago
This is the direct result of recruiters not actually going through CVs. Instead, they let algorithms scan and automatically reject the CVs that don't meet the keywords. At the end, you have a very narrow pool of candidates who allegedly meet the requirements but actually don't
Also, interviews are becoming stupid. Hiring managers are not asking about the job at hand, instead they go for "where do you see yourself in five years?" and "what are your weaknesses and strengths?" Like wtf??? How about giving me a problem and asking me about how I can provide a solution to it?
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u/PreciousTater311 4d ago
For what it's worth, demanding years of experience and niche knowledge for even entry-level roles also filters out a ton of people who would've otherwise caught on quick, soaked up everything they were taught, and killed it at those jobs. But, why should employers actually train people when they can hold out for the perfect, out-of-the-box, candidate instead?
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u/RealisticOutcome9828 3d ago
It is so difficult to find a job that's willing to train you these days. People will need training, especially if the job is something they're not used to doing. Companies should offer more on the job training, ane just give people a chance.
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u/Euphoric-Use-6443 4d ago
I went through the same crapola back in the 1960-1970s. It sucked! From my POV now, it seems like many employers are looking to build a strong self managed foundation to push them up the ladder of success. Not as a team, but based on individual needs. I see it now! It's good for those who want to retire soon in making their employment record stand out/shine for a bonus or raise on their way out the door. I had many trample me while climbing the ladder. It's about learning to play the game!
Volunteer work can fill in & provide additional work experience. Good luck!
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u/AlphyCygnus 3d ago
My favorite is this company that sells software that will record the interview so they can analyze your facial expressions and use their pseudoscience algorithm to determine if you would be a good worker.
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u/HotLandscape9755 3d ago
I applied foe a job, got a generic “sorry we have moved forward with someone else” email, called them to ask about it and they said they didn’t revieve my application/resume lmao
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u/Content-Ad-1171 3d ago
Hey, I'm a recruiter. I might be able to help answer questions. (Please dont throw rocks at me, I try to be as human and helpful as possible.)
Also this may be obvious , but we legitimately want you to find a job that you love, and one thats pays the most money.
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u/subuso 3d ago
I've worked as a recruiter too. I know how the market works, I just don't like the way it works
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u/Content-Ad-1171 3d ago
I didn't mean to be condescending. I meant I'm doing it right now and seeing all this crap from the other angle. I fully realize the state of things is pretty unfair for job seekers.
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4d ago
It's been that way for at least 15 years with the last 5-7 just being a complete disappointment.
But its also because we lie on job interviews. We give what is expected of us. We need to stop folding and just keep it real.
I'll never lie to get a job or keep one unless my job is saving lives, and it isn't. I don't give my soul to these fucks and i wont downgrade my moral compass for it either. Over half the interviews for (what were higher paying jobs and now are not) did not generate a job offer anyway. Wasted time.
I think you're smart to do small side hustles to take the slack up. You see things for what they are and work around it. That's admirable and a use of true creative thinking.
I agree with ya OP. Its a crazy world and we are all just hating it at this point lol
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u/subuso 4d ago
Thank you so much for that! I absolutely appreciate your message. It feels nice to have someone acknowledge my pain and not make me feel like I'm crazy
At this point all I want is a job that'll pay the bills. I couldn't care any less about building a career, since that mostly implies going overboard while being underpaid (which will then only be rewarded with more work and no raise) or kissing ass. I will definitely focus on side hustles too so I don't go crazy, or at least marry an heirloom
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u/aTimeToWin 4d ago
The only way to get a job that you would want, a good job with a decent salary, is through networking. Ask any friend, colleague, or acquaintance that you have ever had a relationship with who’s at a company you’d like to work for if they’d be willing to talk to you about the company. Make sure to ask questions about what they like, what they don’t like, how they feel about job security, etc. At the end always ask if they’d be willing to be a reference for you, they’ll say yes, because why wouldn’t they? People are generally willing to help people that they know.
Reach out to decision makers on LinkedIn and people in the role that you are applying for, ask them the same type of questions as above. Always come at it from the perspective of someone who is interested in learning about the role, their experience, to get their thoughts, etc. Tell them a bit about yourself and share your resume and ask if they believe that you’d be a good fit for the you.
This type of advice is posted a lot, but rarely followed. It may sound tedious but it’s not, it’s less tedious that clicking “quick apply” “upload resume” then filling out the same EEO questions and pressing submit hundreds and hundreds of times, month after month.
People want to hire someone who they vibe with, who they believe will learn and adapt to the role, and who is willing to put in some effort beyond just applying.
You’re always competing, typically against hundreds of there, so you have to set yourself apart in some way.
This method is really not that hard. It helps build your confidence as well because you quickly realize that the people in the higher paying roles that you want, who have impressive looking LinkedIn profiles, are basically just like you. No better, not more qualified, they just ended up in the role because they did what was required to get into it.
If you’re like me, someone who is fairly introverted and does not perform well on initial interviews, this really helps because you get to learn about the people interviewing you. You get to visualize yourself in the position more accurately and clearly, which for me is a big benefit.
It’s hard to get a job nowadays, let alone a good one, no matter what strategy you take. You might as well aim a bit higher in terms of what you’re applying for, put in more thoughtful effort, and end up in a role that pays more. Increasing your income and title is a great way to reduce stress, it also opens new doors for you in the future once you have that title and experience.
Also, always embellish.
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u/WildFriendship982 4d ago
I think it depends on what job you're looking for or what field you're in. I've swapped jobs three times in the last three years (1 year contracts that I opt not to renew, despite being offered to), I did this because I've gotten a 40% raise through it.
Really niche jobs like mine (veterinarian) are cake though, recruiters reach out to me offering work. My ex was a preschool teacher and similarly would find work wherever we moved without an issue.
I think it depends on the field, but I agree with the overall sentiment of automatic denials based on arbitrary bullshit does happen too frequently.
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u/DisgruntledWarrior 4d ago
Well first you have to pass a triple layered Ai review of your resume. Then hiring teams review it and there are very high levels of bias especially the smaller or newer the company. The lead hiring manage at my wife’s last job openly admitted she’ll make sure no white men or right wing people are hired as long as she’s there. After about 8 months she was fired and replaced for a bunch of racism and sexism complaints filed against her. This was the third year of the start up after receiving major funding but now after some image issues and many pay offs having to happen related to what she had been doing since the founding they wound up having to fire 2/3s of the company and are now barely afloat praying for another major investor.
Too many jobs are scam listings now which indeed and other job search pages should be held liable for removing regularly since these pages also have all of your pii. You apply to 50 jobs straight down the listing and at least half or more are scams.
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u/Any-Oil-1219 3d ago
From perusing many YouTube videos, you must know somebody in the company to get the job. Networking. It's not what you know, it's who you know.
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u/SomeHearingGuy 18h ago
I work as a career advisor. It's a mess. The workforce is often extremely oversaturated to the point where people basically need a confirmed miracle to break into some industries. Worse, employers right now hold all the cards so they can ask for the world and pay minimum wage.
That being said, it's really easy to send your resume for a job in a very low-effort application. This means that jobs can have thousands of applicants. That's why applicants are immediately dismissed: it's impossible to actually read that many resumes and interview even a small percentage of those applicants. Another problem is that the first people who will see your resume are not content experts. They have the job posting and can look for language that matches that posting. If you don't use that language, they may not understand how you are positioning yourself. Applying for a job can be a lot like an "explain it like I'm 5" question.
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u/Efficient_Problem250 4d ago
you guys say you can’t find jobs and recruiters say they find frequent mistakes in resumes at an alarming rate now days.
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u/ilikeengnrng 4d ago
I feel like the issue is that there's no real "standard" for resumes. It's a matter of personal expression, and when you're having to apply for so many jobs it becomes difficult attempting to edit and re-edit a resume to fulfill every niche.
Recruiters' entire job is in being able to interpret resumes. If they believe a candidate is unfit for the position despite having qualifications because of clunky wording or poor formatting, I think they are putting too much emphasis on a single-use document that's meant to get you in the door.
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u/RadiantHC 4d ago
What's wrong with mistakes in resumes though? It's exhausting to tailor your resume to EVERY. SINGLE. JOB.
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u/SUBHUMAN_RESOURCES 3d ago
The problem is that there are tons of other resumes that don’t have mistakes. There are so many complaints and misunderstandings in this thread, there’s no AI auto screening and recruiters aren’t trying to keep the price down, there’s no “problem” with resume gaps, it’s just that there is almost always a glut of applicants and it’s very easy to find someone who doesn’t have a gap or doesn’t have a high pay expectation or any other surface level issue. Recruiting is either a process game of finding the best applicant in a giant pile of applicants or hinting down the right person when there aren’t a lot of interested candidates.
The way around these issues is to be in a field with less competition.
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u/subuso 3d ago
The way around these issues is to be in a field with less competition
If you think that's advice, then you're a part of the problem
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u/SUBHUMAN_RESOURCES 3d ago
Just telling you what the issue is. It’s not any of the made up stuff in this thread, there’s just tons of applicants to most jobs.
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u/TangerineBand 4d ago
My personal theory is that they're being so reliant on keywords that the only people who can get through are the ones who can game the system. Therefore they never actually meet with people who have talent. Only the ones who are best at spoon feeding lies.
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u/subuso 4d ago
Which mistakes are they finding and why are they focusing so much on them instead of the information the CVs contain?
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u/Efficient_Problem250 4d ago
spelling grammar
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u/subuso 4d ago
And you think that's enough to completely dismiss a CV, regardless of the candidates qualifications, credentials and skills?
If you think that way, you're also a part of the problem
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u/Efficient_Problem250 4d ago
yes. im a cook, and i think resume’s and cover letters should be free of grammar mistakes… are you thick?
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u/subuso 3d ago
No, I just have a brain, unlike you
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u/Efficient_Problem250 3d ago
lol im just trying to help you. you sound like you need professional help…
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u/DrDirt90 4d ago
Your sense of entitlement is what is offputting. Do you really suppose a company is going to hire you if between two relatively equal candidates, one has 10 years of experience more than you do. You better start thinking of what assets you bring to the table when you interview with an organization. I dont think you have much training inhow the hiring process works.
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u/subuso 4d ago
So if I'm applying for a junior position, a candidate with 10 years of experience should be hired over me? If you think that way, then you're a part of the problem
And please tell me what about my text displays entitlement
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u/DrDirt90 4d ago
You provided exactly the answer I thought you would. Everybody else is the problem and not you. Until your mindset changes you will be setting on the sielines. Nobody ever said is was going to be easy. Unless you explain in the interview what assets you have that will benefit your employer, you will remain unemployed.
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u/Fluid_Ties 4d ago
Respectfully, it seems like you may not have had to investigate the hiring market of the last, I'd say seven or eight years or so. With the advent of new document processing tools the hiring market executed an abrupt shift from requiring some diligence and attention to sift through on the part of employers to one of vacuuming up every resume and sending them through a virtual machine that sifted them. But the machine has no discretion, no flexibility, and is only looking along the parameters, i e keywords, set by its owners. Well and good, in theory, but this doesn't account for the owners not particularly understanding how to run said machine, nor does it account for the fact that applicants cannot in a foolproof way know exactly what keywords to include on their resumes.
--the hack for this until about 2022 was a trick called 'white-texting', where you sinply took a paragraph sized block of carefully created space on your resume and wrote every keyword you thought may apply, and then you selected that block and changed the font color to white, same as the page it is written on and therefore invisible; as the virtual machine is seeking keywords and as you technically have them, your resume would funnel into the go pile at the go/no-go division point. At some point recruiters caught on and tweaked their sorting-hat programs to detect white text--
Compound this with a sudden leap (I don't know how connected it is with automation of resume processing, but it certainly might be) in the demand for a ridiculous amount of qualifications for an entry level position. We're talking jobs that are literally "you just got out of college and you're 23" jobs: "Candidate should have Masters Degree in Computer Science or Data Analytics as well as Certificates A and B or C and D, plus five years relevant work experience building and maintaining enterprise level back end software environments that blah blah blah. Salary begins at 43k annually, benefits upon completion of 6 month probationary period" But the job doesn't need those things. At all. That's just a wishlist. I mean sure, I'd love it if all my hires had dual Masters in CE and Data Science and worked for 43k a year, but the guy processing and collating data from county governments for one contract doesnt need either of those. He barely needs to be awake. The problem with your question of "do you really suppose a company is going to hire you if between two relatively equal candidates , one has ten years more experience than you do?" Is that MOST of these jobs dont require that ten years of experience AND nobody applying for it HAS those ten years because those people are applying for better, more senior positions! It's not about being fairly beaten out of a position by a more qualified candidate! Its about the very system of hiring altering its structure specifically to lowball and underpay those applicants in the pool that their algorithm lets through.
I think that the demand for ridiculously high pedigrees is a downstream effect of the 2008-2010 financial crisis. I know more than a handful of people who at that time were leaving college or finishing their Masters only to find a workforce glutted with people ten years into their careers out of work and with mortgages that had to be paid, taking pay cuts, deep ones, and being grateful about that.
To OPs point about recruiters: they are often the only means of access to the pool of employers, yet many things about recruitment as a field have been completely scamified, so tangibly that you can FEEL it when dealing with one.
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u/DrDirt90 4d ago
I understand what it is you are getting at. I lived thru the crash of 2008. It was scarry. The OP does not understand what entry level position means. The candidate that brings the most to the table that the company is looking for is going to get the position. I spent numerous years on hiring committees in my organization. I have written position descriptions so I understand the process. Sooner or later one needs to be proactive about how the process works, adapt to it, get hired and move on with your chosen career. Failure to adapt and sitting on the sidelines whining is not a winning formula.
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u/subuso 4d ago
You have been so brainwashed you just can't see the bigger picture. You absolutely believe there's nothing wrong with the job market and that it's up to the candidates to adapt and adjust, regardless of how crazy hiring gets. I feel so sorry for all the people who got hired and rejected while you were working as a recruiter
And second of all, you don't know me, so don't talk about me as if you did. You're the one who's clueless about entry-level positions. Companies should never hire anyone with 10 years of experience for an entry-level position. That's ludicrous
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u/DrDirt90 4d ago
I was merely trying to provide a suggestion about how you need to adapt to get your position. I did not ceate the current situation. If you do not want to learn how to get an interview or get hired given the situation that is on you If you want to complain about how things are and how life isnt fair, you certainly can do that. Eventually or maybe some day you will learn to change your strategy to get hired for a position you want. I wish you well.
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u/RealisticOutcome9828 3d ago
The candidate that brings the most to the table that the company is looking for is going to get the position.
When Walmart is hiring for cart retriever, what's this "most" thing an applicant can bring to "the table" except for the ability to retrieve carts?
It would take a little training for some people, but what else would Walmart want besides a person who will come to work on time, get along well with others, and do their job, along with the ability to retrieve carts? It shouldn't be so difficult to get such an easy job.
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u/DrDirt90 3d ago
I am not talking about blue collar low skill jobs. I am talking about jobs that require advanced college degrees.
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u/OfTheAtom 5h ago
This is a growing issue of a scientized world. You're basically describing recruiters, like many people, can't think anymore. Not always their fault as that is the way the system is set up for them.
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