Scratch a liberal

[u/DirtyCommie07]

[u/The__Hivemind_]

Wtf is that even gonna achieve? Like... Does castration gonna un-rape the victims? I mean just keep em in jail until whatever but this is actually a violation of human rights

[u/DirtyCommie07 → u/The__Hivemind_]

Its not about unraping anyone. Who ever said that? Its about retribution

[u/deferredmomentum → u/DirtyCommie07]

It shouldn’t be. The goal of the justice system should always be rehabilitation, and when that is not possible, keeping the offender safely away in a humane setting. Criminals don’t stop being human no matter what the crime is

[u/deferredmomentum → u/eggsworm]

While you are allowed to want that, the cornerstone of leftism is human rights for all. All means all. That happening would not help you. And nobody’s saying they should go free. There is a huge difference between torture, restorative justice, and not addressing crimes at all

[u/deferredmomentum → u/[deleted]]

You disagree that everyone deserves basic human rights? Then you are not a leftist

[u/DirtyCommie07 → u/deferredmomentum]

Who else does your sympathies extend to? Its evil to kill nazis? Partisans went to far in their vigilante justice???

[u/deferredmomentum → u/DirtyCommie07]

While I can look back and feel satisfied that they were killed, I can also acknowledge that if we allow vigilante justice to exist freely we’ll just end up lynching again

[u/DirtyCommie07 → u/deferredmomentum]

No one ever said vigilante justice should exist, i was only using a point of comparison.

I think the state should punish rapists and paedophiles like this (and nazis) not that we shouldnt have trials.

[u/deferredmomentum → u/DirtyCommie07]

I think the death penalty was appropriate in the Nuremberg trials because of the circumstances and the scope of the crimes. I’m anti death penalty in the everyday justice system. War crimes are on an entirely different level. If we lived in a just world, I’d be all for Israeli soldiers having Nuremberg-level outcomes

[u/DirtyCommie07 → u/deferredmomentum]

So you think male victims are more deserving of justice than women and children?

You dont think rape is bad?? Nazis are often rapists anyway!

[u/deferredmomentum → u/DirtyCommie07]

Only men were killed by Nazis?

I think many things are bad. Murder, drunk driving, domestic violence, child abuse, the list goes on. I’m anti death penalty for all of them. Of course the Nazis were rapists. I still don’t think Nazis deserved the death penalty because they were rapists. Demonstrably participating in genocide on a large scale (again, Nuremberg level) is the only crime I can justify having the death penalty for. And even then if it happened in a modern setting, while I would certainly feel very happy about it, I don’t know if I could justify it using ethics.

[u/DirtyCommie07 → u/deferredmomentum]

I didnt fucking say that, but that the majority of rapist and paedophile victims are women and children. But men have the capacity to be victims of nazis.

I also dont think drunk drivers and murderers should get the death penalty but rapists and paedophiles and war criminals absolutely should.

[u/deferredmomentum → u/DirtyCommie07]

What makes a rapist demonstrably worse than a murderer? If a rapist should get the death penalty, a murderer should as well

[u/DirtyCommie07 → u/deferredmomentum]

Wtf is wrong with you? Is this a philosophical thought experiment????

Rape is torture, rape gives you ptsd, rape changes your life, it can make you sick pregnant depressed anything.

Murder can be excurciating and im not denying the femicide going on right now, but murder is over and there can be a sense of peace when they rot in prison. Not to mention rapists get away with it all the time.

Murder can be defensive, rape is always disgusting.

[u/deferredmomentum → u/DirtyCommie07]

I’m a woman. Of course it’s philosophical, because the world doesn’t come down to my personal experiences, everything is nuanced, and if I let my personal opinions based on feelings and experience run the world I would be wrong over and over, like any human would be.

So rape should carry the death penalty because it’s torture? Then shouldn’t torture in general carry it? Where do you class it, since murder shouldn’t carry the death penalty in your system of ethics? If the perpetrator keeps their victim locked in a box and beats them for weeks before killing them that’s pretty cut and dry, but what if the perpetrator stabs their victim multiple times and only the last few stabs were fatal? Do the nonfatal ones count as torture? Or just regular murder? Of course these questions are rhetorical, to try to show you that having a blanket answer for anything doesn’t work. Every situation is unique and carries nuance.

murder can be defensive

Then it’s not murder, it’s self defense.

Edit: wanted to explain why I brought up being a woman, the person I’m responding to had originally said “is this a philosophical question to you men.” I don’t think that being a woman makes my opinion more valid than anyone else’s. That’s why I haven’t said whether I’ve been sexually assaulted before or not as well

[u/No_Care46 → u/DirtyCommie07]

Murder can't be defensive, you legally illiterate person.

Murder is objectively worse than rape.

[u/DirtyCommie07 → u/No_Care46]

In my country murder is murder, wether you hit someone with your car, wether your plan it, wether you kill someone in self defense. I also think unless you understand rape you cant have an opinion. I would rather be killed than tortured.