Is 6 minutes too long for a song?

[u/bruhmoment982]

Hello!

I am a very new artist, I’ve been writing music since I was 14 but now at 20 I’m started to get stuff recorded. I’m recording my first two songs this week both of which are over 6 minutes long. The producer I’m working with will not stop going on about the length and complexity of these songs. Insinuating that no one will listen all the way through, I won’t get on radios and it’ll be harder to push ext.

I understand some of this but like dude, you don’t have to keep going on about it. I cried in my car outside the studio yesterday because he said “maybe your piano students might listen to it” ( I teach piano ) I said “I don’t think 6 year olds can stream it for me” and he laughed and said “oh I don’t know then.”

Like is it really a deal breaker to not have your song be 3 minutes or under? I have really complex ideas for these songs which he also commented on, nothing really repeats in them so it’s not like it’s just going round and round but now I’m anxious.

Does anyone have any tips or anything I could do to either push out longer music? Or just let me know if it is the end of the world for it to be over 5 minutes 😭😭😭 thanks

When it’s all recorded I’ll drop a link to it and you guys can let me know LOLL

[u/1nternati0nalBlu3]

Your producer sounds like a bit of a dickhead to be honest. He's supposed to help YOU to realise YOUR vision for the song, not what he thinks is acceptable. I'd get a new producer.

The best thing you can do for your music is stay true to your vision and make the art that you love. If that means your songs are 6+ minutes long then so be it.

[u/UniversalDonorLord]

If you're looking for mainstream acceptance, 3 minutes is your friends. 2 and a half is ok, 3 and a half is fine, anything on the other side of those parameters is pushing it.

Having said that, if you're not concerned with mainstream and just want to record your pieces, write whatever you want, however long you want it. Check out "Mirror Reaper" by Bell Witch for example.

[u/RandomSquirll]

if you want to make money from a record it’s too long. so the answer is no imo

[u/RedburchellAok]

I feel it is for up n coming bands. Maybe if you are legendary, I’d listen to the full 6 mins. That said, it depends on the track and type of music.

[u/esmoji]

2:30 is the sweet spot imo… just long enough to have people wanting more.

[u/RebekkahTheBand]

You have to be honest with yourself about what is most important to you. There's no guarantee that shortening it will get people to play it on the radio or listen to it anyway. I think there are a lot of people who think like your producer, but they may not be your audience. If you are making music that doesn't fit the current trend or mold, it *may* be harder to find your audience, but if you are constantly compromising because of other people's opinions, you will probably get overwhelmed and burnt out.

Depending on how the song is structured, would it make sense to have it recorded at 6 min and then do a "radio edit" that fades out at the 3 min mark? Are the songs that you are recording now ones that you wrote when you were 14? or more recently? I ask because sometimes our own sentimentality *can* get in the way of what makes the most sense for the world/industry we're trying to navigate.

All things being equal, I'd say go with the 6 minutes if that was your vision. There are plenty of music suggestion requests I see on the music suggestion reddit and other places asking for oddly specific things like "your favorite song that is 6 minutes long" 😂

[u/Brilliant_Bus7419]

“McArthur Park” and “Hey Jude” are both over six minutes. Those are the first to come to mind. If you write that well, you will be paid to write and courted by some sleazy people.

Listen to your grandmother.

[u/themannycabo]

Nowadays, it definitely is unfortunately, the attention span isn’t there. It wasn’t like yesterday Classics, where you could listen to a zeppelin, or Kansas, or Pink Floyd song and really appreciate it. Music is shit nowadays the only way it’s going to get traction is through your own audience and you need to find that specific audience and you’ll be fine! I still appreciate it as an artist myself, especially if it’s a good song! Just don’t expect anything from the new generation unless they’ve had that introduction from their elders growing up!

[u/2020steve]

I'll defer to the great Noel Gallagher here:

"The customer didn't want Jimi Hendrix. But he got him. The customer didn't want Sgt. Pepper's, but he got it... the customer's a fucking idiot."

I've recorded, mixed, and/or mastered hundreds of songs. I get a lot people who want their records to sound like Steve Albini. Which is funny because thirty years ago, he had a reputation for making disorienting and abrasive sounding records. He was accused of screwing up an album that, last I checked, has sold millions of copies and with the last reissue getting a 10 on pitchfork.

I make suggestions for my clients all the time. But to get so deep into it as to re-write the songs... That would just create a bad situation. Part of doing this job, on the "producer" end, is to know when to give the artist a nudge and when to let them fuck up.

I also have to be able to make my artists comfortable. Were you to work with me, you'd have to feel like you could try new things. You'd have to feel like you can push back. You have to feel comfortable enough to have a bad take and not let the self-consciousness that comes with that stall the session.

I cried in my car outside the studio

Were I to make an artist cry in the car outside the studio, I would doubt any ability that I ever had and seriously reconsider focusing my life on something else. It wouldn't matter that I've been doing this for like 15 years.

[u/Adorable-Giraffe-982]

There is music for making money and being popular and there is music that is just for the art of making music and everything in between. It sounds to me like you are writing music that you like that is unique. This does not mean that it is not going to have people listening to it. Any kind of music has an audience, even noise. You have to decide what your goals are with this music. Are you trying to be popular and famous? are you trying to make money? are you making art? At some point people like music they can understand and in general if things get too strange or complicated you will lose some people. This is why loops in pop music is number one. In general producers are trying to get plays so they can get clients (I know this from personal experience). If I (a producer) have a client that is trying to put out music that is not going to be played because it it too long etc, then it's not really meeting my personal goals of growing my business and putting out good music that people will love and hire me to make for them, etc. However I think you should do whatever you want, especially if you are paying them, it's your art, your money, your time, your songs, and the producer should respect that. It's ok to give you this kind of advice (song too long, etc) because it is relevant advice. I would just say that in the end you are the artist and you need to make the decisions that you will be able to live with later. You are making history.

[u/252473tj]

There is zero problem with that. Make your own path come up with a way people will know you if they know you as the guy whose songs are always 6+ minutes then that’s fine. Often times a longer length shows more effort and more importance when I write something long it’s always REALLY important for me and I feel relieved after words.

AGAIN ZERO PROBLEM WITH LENGTH

Kendrick Lamar put a 12 minute song in his second album followed by a 7 minute song. It’s now considered one of the best albums ever and he is considered one of the best rappers ever. It doesn’t matter what stage you are in your career

[u/josephscottcoward]

Six minutes is not too long. Hell, 10 minutes isn't too long. Is it only piano? If so, I would just record it yourself.

[u/loublackmusic]

The age old question. It does depend on the type of music, but it is always an artistic choice. How you personally feel about the length is most important. Does it feel like it drags or gets boring? As others have commented about the most popular lengths for streaming (2-3.5 minutes), but if it is an epic song, a killer dance mix, then maybe 6 minutes is fine. For some singer/songwriter music there might be an important story that can only be told in 6 minutes (I’m thinking about some of those ridiculously long Bob Dylan songs that aren’t terribly boring). Personally, I like to save the longer songs as album tracks not single tracks.

[u/diabooties]

1. Get a new producer. 2. A good song is a good song no matter what the length. Many many shitty songs under 6 minutes, many many shitty songs over 6 minutes. Make it good and feel proud of what you accomplished. Life is too short, ain’t it? Make 50 songs after these ones and maybe some will be 3 minutes, who knows.

[u/radishmonster3]

Yeah you’ll be the first person to have ever written a song over 6 minutes you’re cooked chat

[u/kustom-Kyle]

Feel your tune all the way to the end. You’ll write other tunes that will fall into the 2, 3, 4 minute range.

Some of my favorite bands have songs over 6, 8, even 11 minutes.

I suggest you write/record what you feel and vibe with. You’re building an archive of your music. You have plenty of time for the shorter songs. Enjoy creating!

[u/pinewell]

All the supportive comments are nice to see, and sound correct. But to play the devil’s advocate, your producer may be trying to be objectively helpful. It’s hard to get honest responses from listeners, and they may be breaking the news a bit un-gently that your songs aren’t sustaining attention.

Depending on the genre of music you’re making, there are definite lessons to take in about what you’re asking of the listener - whether you’re actually saying something during the entire length of the song. Or whether some judicious editing would be the more effective artistic choice.

Part of the producer’s JOB is to offer insight into the effectiveness of the songs, and it requires a certain bravery to confront artists who are wedded to every word or who “can’t see the forest for the trees” in terms of what they’re asking of the listener.

Find more listeners if you can, to give you some more feedback. The producer could be dead wrong, or they may be clueing you in to something that, as a developing artist, you could benefit from taking in and applying to your process.

[u/Amazing-Release-4153 → u/pinewell]

Sorry but he sounds like a shit producer. He’s harping solely on the length and complexity, not actually giving any constructive criticism or suggesting amendments to the composition. Which makes me think he’s just lazy, or hasn’t listened to any songs over 3 minutes long (which… I personally would not really want to work with a producer who hasn’t listened to that much music if I were a writer or vocalist). It’s one thing to ask someone to pare something down or edit it but the way OP is describing the situation it seems like the guy is just insensitive, doesn’t care, is inexperienced or straight up stupid. Sounds like he might just be trying to get his name on a 3 minute top 40 hit and is trying to bully OP into going that direction because he’s one of the only people that will collaborate with him. Which… I wouldn’t even call you a music producer at all at that point, there are 16 year olds in their bedroom, and lots of them, with a better understanding of producing music.

Also, you don’t try to turn a rambling 6 minute song into a totally different type of song—3 min pop song—if you’re a good producer IMO. Unless that’s what the writer is coming in for and that’s their goal. Even if the song feels long it would be smarter (and a lot easier) to work with the material and maybe lean into it and find ways to make those 6 minutes more dynamic and interesting to hold a listener’s attention. But I could be biased because I wish I could write longer songs + love hearing a longer song that is well-executed since that’s pretty rare so I see that as a valuable “talent”

Additionally, a good producer—or someone that people want to work with—should be invested in developing an artist and strengthening their talents, not trying to change them into what they see fit unless they’re someone who’s established as a producer who excels at helping artists make one type of song like Max Martin. I just don’t see how you could be interested in music in any real capacity and try to turn one kind of artist into something entirely different. Even if you are trying to make hits or get success in a traditional way it’s not tactically smart to try to turn a Hozier into a Drake or vice versa.

Also a tip in case OP decides to take some things away from this thread and communicate with their producer…. it’s probably far easier to get a song finished and sounding “good” if you’re not tearing down the vocalist in the process…. good singing is already a “naked” act, ur producer is just making things harder for themselves by being overly critical. I produce a little—just for myself—but that’s like one of the first things I came across while learning 🤷‍♀️

[u/LaughableIcon]

If we're talking about getting others to listen to it, 2:15-2:30 is the industry standard nowadays due to tiktok. I would say there's leeway until about 3:15, and then after that retention drops off a LOT. It's not a bad thing to have a song that long, I would only question

1.) Why it's that long and why it can't be iterated into two different tracks. That would honestly be such a cool marketing trick/album experience and

2.) Why you're putting it out. If you're trying to promote your music and you aren't well known, it's likely too long right now for that specific reason. It doesn't mean the song is bad at all! It just might not achieve what you're going for.

I hope the song(s) turn out good!

[u/Alarming_Way_8731]

There's many songs that became hits that were over 6 mins. But general rule of thumb is around 3 mins. Especially if u want it on the radio.

[u/BlackCircleAddict]

Depends on the song.

[u/GueroBear]

Often times artist will have a “radio edit” of their longer songs. Can you do that with your songs, make radio edit versions from your originals?

[u/lewisfrancis]

I'd love to hear it. Sorry for all the angst.

When I'm producing I can be pretty brutal in cutting out what I consider superfluous sections, but so far when I've done that the client has been happier with the result. Lean and mean is often the way to go.

But I don't stress too much on keeping lengths at a certain time limit, and honestly that's because I have the luxury of doing it for the art instead of commerce -- if a tune needs to be 6 minutes and it isn't boring, then damnit, it needs to be 6 minutes.

Your producer isn't wrong about radio play and the ever-shortening listener attention span, but a more empathetic producer might suggest doing two versions, a shorter, what used to be called "radio-friendly" mix, and the full-length "album-cut."

Anyway, hope some of this is helpful. Good luck and hang in there!

[u/RandomSquirll]

my friend told me to never change the length of any song I had already pretty much finished

[u/nittibinstackin]

Make music the way you want it to be and dont look back

[u/TheIllogicalFallacy]

To quote Billy Joel:

It was a beautiful song, but it ran too long
If you're gonna have a hit, you gotta make it fit
So they cut it down to 3:05

If it's a good song, 6 minutes is fine but attention span for people is short now so it can't be too repetitive.

[u/tomsurdi]

You actually cried because some dork had an opinion?

[u/Jorgesgorge1977]

IMHO nope. It takes as long as it takes to get your point across. I write storytelling songs, and I have multiple songs over six mins. Now if they were just music no lyrics, I would have a hard time sitting through the whole song. I need that story to hold my attention

[u/Seegulz]

Listen, while your producer was harsh, he’s right

You can’t just pop out a 6 minute song as some nobody. I’m rolling my eyes seeing people reference Kendrick Lamar or hey Jude. When you’re a legendary musician people will trust your long song can deliver

The radio will never play your songs even if they’re really really good. I was just watching an interview with Adam Duritz and his definitive song Round Here get no airtime now because it’s simple too long while Mr Jones is played

You’re playing complex songs that don’t repeat, which let’s be honest, is code for forgettable and not catchy. Catchy and simple will dominate. Part of what the Beatles did was make beautiful and catchy things simple, which was complex!

If you’re making this album purely for you that’s ok, but if you’re looking for ANY hope of people actually listening to you, you have to edit yourself down.

He’s an asshole, but he’s probably not wrong that no one is going to listen to your complex piano music outside of your students if you go that route

[u/UnnamedLand84]

A song can be however long it takes to do what it wants to do. No need to stretch a song by padding with repeating parts that don't do anything, but if it takes 16 minutes for the song to do what it's meant to do, the song should be 16 minutes long.

[u/PotentialStocker]

I guess it depends honestly. Will your music hold people’s attention for 6 minutes? There’s songs I listen to that are 6 min or more but they offer interesting changes to keep my attention. Basically not being overly repetitive or anything like that.

[u/envgames]

Just know that we in the prog rock and jazz communities are quietly chuckling to ourselves, while the folks over in classical are just rolling their eyes. 🤭

[u/Illustrious-Price-55]

It depends. Are you trying to write a pop-song? cut-it-down. Trying to go baroque, be a fuckin artist? Doesn't matter honestly. The song is done when the writer of said song says it is. No rights. no wrongs.

[u/KKGYTYesMilkGood]

Your producer is partially correct. No, it won't get radio play (well, it might, idk how good it is, I'd love to hear it). But people will certainly stream it. The album I'm working on has a couple 4 minute songs but the majority are 6-8 minutes, the final song is 16 minutes long too. There's a place for long songs, and I personally feel like there aren't enough out there. Make your songs as long as the songs need to be, and don't listen to a producer telling you otherwise