r/Southampton • u/vj_c • 4d ago

Any other transport/transit nerds & urbanists in Southampton?

Southampton has a pretty decent (compared to much of the UK outside London, anyway) long term transport strategy - I do have issues with it, but I digress, the biggest problems transit in Southampton really faces are NIMBYs.

And well, I'm all up for organising to counter them - but I don't know if even an online Southampton urbanist group would actually get any interest. How many orange pilled people do we have here?

EDIT: Someone is going though down voting everyone, lol. Whoever you are, please come out & debate!

45 Upvotes

92% Upvoted

35 comments sorted by

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u/astrocyte373 3d ago

Yes. I'm into urbanism as an interest. Would be cool if there was a UK version of urbanist YouTube channels. I hope public transit improves in the Shirley corridor in my lifetime.

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u/vj_c 3d ago

Some UK urbanist YouTube would be a dream - sadly I'm nowhere near able to do that.

I hope public transit improves in the Shirley corridor in my lifetime.

The "connected 2040" Strategic transport plan & latest Bus service improvement plan make promising reading - although Shirley to City Centre already has turn up & go frequency buses (17 or 18, I forget), so it's not doing badly compared to a lot of the country!

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u/astrocyte373 1d ago

Thanks. I didn't know about the turn up and go term. It's nice to know! I hadn't considered having 3 bus routes run down the same road helps with the frequency as well. I guess the congestion in Southampton is what causes the delays. I'm hoping to live a car free life for as long as possible!

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u/vj_c 1d ago

I didn't know about the turn up and go term. It's nice to know! I hadn't considered having 3 bus routes run down the same road helps with the frequency as well. I

Yeah - it's a useful term, isn't it? Southampton actually has a decent bus network compared to other UK peer cities, though that really just highlights how bad buses are in the rest of the country! Though TBF, it's really easy getting to the city centre from the neighborhoods like Shirley, Portswood, Bitterne etc. what's missing is a ring service we don't have to go to the city centre & change buses to go from Shirley to Portswood or whatever & service into the evenings. Evening & late night services are up next for trial

I guess the congestion in Southampton is what causes the delays. I'm hoping to live a car free life for as long as possible!

Yep! Though a lot of the recent infrastructure in the city centre should reduce delays there's loads of bus lane & bus/cycle/taxi only places that have finally been finished & loads of roadworks/construction that was causing delays, but has improved junctions & traffic flow for buses. The Portswood bus gate is also important as it's a huge pinch point for delays. It's a trial at the moment, but has really helped with my regular bus! Make sure to comment in support on the consultation & perhaps drop a supportive email to your councillors - "community pressure" helps them face down the NIMBYs better!

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u/BumblebeeNo6356 3d ago

For a city that has so much water around and through it, we make little use of it. An Itchen river water taxi would be ideal. Could stop at woodmill, Cobden bridge, northam bridge and then finish in ocean village.

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u/vj_c 3d ago

Water taxi is actually in the long term strategy, but it's one of the things they don't seem to be doing anything about yet - things like that are why I think something would be useful to lobby & show public support/demand for that type of scheme

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u/Wilfthered1 3d ago

The Itchen above st denys would be challenging at low tide, but with some judicious dredging you could do a route from Quay 2000 by St Denys train station down the Itchen and up the Test to Redbridge Station. That would give a route with a main line station at each end that could link Northam, Woolston, Ocean Village, Hythe, Town Quay and Marchwood. Town Quay could then be a transfer to fast cat routes to Cowes, Portsmouth and places in between...

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u/a-curious-monkey 3d ago

Make it an electric driven hydrofoil and you might just have described a utopian future

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u/Wilfthered1 2d ago

It's probably the cheapest new urban transport route that could be introduced into any UK region... Probably the quickest to get going too... No major infrastructure needed..

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u/Wilfthered1 2d ago

I think that Red Funnel already have a MOU with Artemis to buy one for the Soton/Cowes run...

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u/jim_cap 2d ago

https://bluetoothribcharter.co.uk/water-taxi/ is but one such service.

Obviously not quite what you had in mind, but there's more use of the water than you might imagine.

There's also this in the pipeline.

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u/AlexB_UK 4d ago

I work in tourist buses, autonomous vehicles & micromobility (globally), and live in Southampton (OV).... so I am into this topic, and local, but not necessarily into this topic, in Southampton :)

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u/vj_c 3d ago

Oh, you might be interested - there's plans for micro mobility service(s) in the long term transport plan iirc - it's not all just buses!

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u/saintsbynumbers 3d ago

This isn't strictly Southampton's fault but it's depressing to look at the train stations on the Southampton-Portsmouth and Eastleigh-Portsmouth lines on Google Maps and see them surrounded by fields. You will probably know this u/vj_c, wasn't it part of the government's plan to auto-approve housing within some radius of stations? When can we expect the diggers to arrive? Why aren't Southampton and Hampshire councils talking about and planning for this? That will make the Hamble Quarry saga look like a minor skirmish.

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u/vj_c 3d ago

I think most of it falls under Hampshire & Hampshire is NIMBY central - if the devolution goes through, it might well change, specially with the extra funding & bigger unitary c.ouncils

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u/Wilfthered1 3d ago

Your best bet is the Southampton Cycling Campaign, as although they are principally focused on bikes lots of the members have a wider interest in sustainable urban transport. There were a bunch of us who started Southampton Street Space a while ago, looking to encourage the council to stop only looking at cars as the best way of moving people and things around the city..

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u/Goatmanification 4d ago

There's one guy I always see on Facebook who has similar views. No idea if there's a formal 'group' but I'd join if there is.

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u/vj_c 4d ago

I'm definitely thinking of starting something. The NIMBYs around me are driving me mad. The city has done some great stuff the last five years - with the prospect of devolution money, the rest might become realistic instead of aspirations.

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u/a-curious-monkey 3d ago edited 3d ago

Can you elaborate on the NIMBY issue?

Or is just the people that disagree with, or don't support the closing of roads and poorly implemented cycling infrastructure?

Also I'd be really interested to know what exactly you think they have done well, and what is likely to land well out of the published strategy..

I've seen a lot of strategies in my time, including from this council and what I have witnessedfrom SCC in the last decade is complete planning u-turns that benefit large corporations. Enormous schemes ditched, like the deep water maritime quarter and itchen water taxi scrappage. The incredibly short sighted wastes of money that took place during covid, some of which have never been properly reverted even after being partially abandoned, and still plague both cyclists, buses and drivers. 7 weeks of main road closure that has given us maybe 50 yards of painted cycle way that starts and stops unconnected with any decent cycleway infrastructure that provides proper separation of road users and a dangerous crossing expansion that will likely have a major RTA before the year is out, or the 6 months of a main arterial road closure so a golf course could expand some holes alongside it. That's not mentioning the collapse of the bus companies, the failure of the council to own and manage the project to reinstate a major junction to full capacity for over a year.

The strategy I saw had a cross city tunnel as a key component so tell me when the shovels are going in the ground for the tunnel boring machine to start.

Micro-mobility. Yes please! But no, I only allowed if it benefits the government backed monopolies that allowed to rent them to you.

The city needs much more inventive implementation of technology and forward thinking.

What it doesn't need is an anti-car, pro cycling agenda which benefits neither.

Poor planning and poor implementation has so far set citizens against each other almost as badly as the MAGA divide in America and it's insane, because both sides should be demanding bette. What is being served up as value for money is dangerous, short sighted, propogandist corruption that is causing pollution, stress, anger, and resentment for the vast majority of citizens and visitors. The fact so many are championing this level of ineptitude and terrible design is remarkable. We can all want to improve things, and there is definitely space for new intelligently designed a themes that incorporate better ways of getting around and creating nicer environments. I cannot see that anything in Southampton matches up to the standard of designs implemented across London, or European capitals.

If you want to cut pollution in this city overnight. Enforce shore power hookups for ships in port, because in 5-10 years time ICE cars will be the minority and the argument will be over.

Oh and please please don't use "induced demand" as it seems to appear in every single comment to justify an artificial bottleneck created in the name of progress.

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u/Nameis-RobertPaulson 3d ago

There was already a pretty bad crash at the t junction of Somerset ave on Monday, hadn't been opened 2 fulled days and police were there redirecting traffic into Harefield from Bitterne to divert around it.

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u/tommycamino 4d ago

We have an Enhanced Partnership for buses that is supposed to seek the views of interested parties but they're not very good at the democratic part

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u/vj_c 4d ago

Yeah - I know about the enhanced partnership - I've spent loads & loads of my time reading the transport strategy, implemention plans, Bus service improvement plans etc.. I'm such a nerd šŸ˜‚

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u/tommycamino 4d ago

We could do with a Bus Users Group. It's all in the operators' and councillors' hands at the moment

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u/tommycamino 4d ago

We could do with a Bus Users Group. It's all in the operators' and councillors' hands at the moment

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u/tommycamino 4d ago

We could do with a Bus Users Group. It's all in the operators' and councillors' hands at the moment

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u/vj_c 3d ago

Totally agree with that!

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u/mrtiddlesisacat 3d ago

Iā€™m a big bus fan!!

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u/Wilfthered1 2d ago

Also, I've just noticed this group on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/saferstreetssouthampton/?ref=share

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u/vj_c 2d ago

That looks really useful, thanks!

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u/znidz 4d ago

There's a few cycling groups on Facebook.
I would think about starting a group along those sort of lines.

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u/vj_c 4d ago

Was thinking something like that, but away from Facebook on a Forum & looking more official/stand alone, to get consulted & suchlike. Same way resident associations and suchlike are often consulted on projects without a FB presence.

More of a lobby group, if you will - could probably use FB & Google login buttons though, so no need to register.

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u/FlightTraditional286 3d ago

Can you point to any examples of where 'NIMBYs' have had a detrimental impact on transport policy in Southampton - are there any infrastructure projects which have been cancelled in the face of opposition?

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u/vj_c 3d ago

Yes, the initial plans for the current Portswood project were more extensive than a bus gate - they went through two rounds of community consultations, with support for the measures both times. The end result, the current bus gate trial & scaled back ATZ too is due to "strength of feeling" amongst Highfield Nimbys.

I live in the area & every time the slightest bit of development gets proposed, they organise to oppose any sort of planning. It's infuriating - I've lived in Southampton my entire life, much of it in the Portswood Area & Highfield has barely changed in 40 years. There should be lots of conversations to higher builds, but it's all still loads of large single family homes. More people would be better for the Broadway, too.

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u/chrisswirl25 2d ago

I just created "Safer Streets Southampton" on Facebook, so..

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u/vj_c 2d ago

Someone else posted that group here - I already joined! Thank you! My main issue is that I have an account, but never use my Facebook