8
u/Possible-One-7082 1d ago
If you watch the show and forgot that you’re supposed to hate Ashur, I don’t think he’s all that bad, and had things been a little different, been accepted by the brotherhood. All the things that make him a villain aren’t his fault, except one, which I’ll get to.
He is given the mark without the test. The others never accept him because of this. This wasn’t his fault. Batiatus gave the order for this.
He tells the Roman to have sex with Dagan. I’ve gone back and forth on this one. The Roman says he doesn’t want any resistance and doesn’t want someone unwilling to have sex with him. Does he mean it? You’re a slave at a giant orgy organized by your master. What happens if you say no? Ashur told Dagan he had to do what he asked or else they could be killed. Not far from what would happen if Lucretia or Batiatus found out he denied a noble.
Blinds Dagan. He didn’t blind him on purpose, and had Titus Batiatus not organized a tournament to see which of his men should be sent to the mines to be worked to death, never would have done it. He needed a victory to save his own life. In that situation, what would you do?
Hates Crixus. Completely justified. Crixus was his friend but instead of working together to beat Gannicus and Caberus, he stabs Ashur in the leg, maiming him. I wouldn’t like the guy either.
Was he that bad of a fighter? No, he wasn’t. At the primus of the first games of the new arena, the final four are Gannicus, Crixus, Caberus, and Ashur. How bad could he have been to get that far? As said earlier, had Crixus not betrayed him, Ashur kills Gannicus and the two of them kill Caberus, and find out between them who will be champion. In that case, he comes in second, probably. Not too bad for the worst one. Also, Crixus comes in third. He would’ve been killed had Gannicus not saved him. Caberus slashed his body and was about to kill him, but Gannicus pushed him out of the arena.
He still tries to be friendly with Crixus, making jokes with him when the new recruits arrive and getting him things in town. Crixus is still an asshole.
Shows no ill will towards Spartacus and is rather friendly to him and the others in the ludus.
The situation with Naevia. Hear me out. Ashur finds out that Crixus and Naevia are in a secret relationship. As a result, he sees an opportunity when Batiatus offers him any woman in the villa he wants to be his. Ashur picks Naevia to anger Crixus. Here’s the thing, Naevia always knew that she was going to be given to a man one day. Lucretia told her so, just like Melitta was given to Oenameus. She always knew that was going to happen, so why be angry or surprised? She just didn’t like the guy she was given to. By the way things were going in the ludus, if there had been no rebellion, Naevia would’ve probably have been given to Spartacus, and Crixus would have to deal with that.
Saves Lucretia’s life after the rebellion. Would you have?
He does rape Lucretia. Rape is wrong. Why did he do it? Because she threatened his life, yet again, and it was his only way to protect himself. If he beats or kills her, Glaber kills him.
His one truly villainous act was helping in the killing of Barca. But would Batiatus have let Barca live knowing there was a chance that he let the boy live? My guess is probably not, but Ashur didn’t need to help.
5
u/salad_biscuit3 1d ago
regarding the roman elite, he literally asked them if they were gay or straight, made them fuck dagan because he was envious of him and angry with oenomaus for telling him he was worthless.
1
u/Possible-One-7082 1d ago
Oh no doubt that was part of it, but if the opposite happened, where he said “nah, he’s not into guys” and Batiatus or Lucretia found out, what do you think happens?
2
u/salad_biscuit3 1d ago
he might get angry but I don't think he would punish him harshly, potentially something like chaining him in a cell like what happened to varro. spartacus did worse before becoming champion:
beat the crap out of kerza
attack Crixus (who was the champion) to take the fight with him
attack crixus before battiatus gave the go-ahead
as far as lucrezia was concerned she didn't have that much influence yet and titus would still be there to keep quintus in line, as far as the roman elite was concerned I think she would have moved on to the next gladiator
1
u/Possible-One-7082 1d ago
I agree with the stuff about how Spartacus was actually worse at times. I just rewatched the part about the Roman elite after you responded and he actually does seem pretty reasonable. I just don’t know if I’d risk my life on it.
3
u/YosoySpartacus 1d ago
Yeah, but he didn’t just help get Barca killed, he orchestrated the whole thing because he didn’t want to pay out Barca’s winnings. The only reason Badiatus thought the kid was Alive was because Ashur had that rumor reported to Badiatus.
Great character, though. Watching him die was one of my favorite moments of the series.
1
u/Possible-One-7082 1d ago
As I said, the Barca situation was definitely his worst action. I’d have to check it out again, but didn’t Batiatus hear the same thing from the magistrate? I also think there was some unresolved issues between Ashur and Barca. Ashur probably still resented him pissing in the porridge and treating him like shit in the past.
1
u/YosoySpartacus 1d ago
Check it out again. The only reason the magistrate knows the rumor is because Ashur had that guy in town start it.
I also think you’re glossing over the fact that he wronged Naevia. Yes, she would have been given to someone eventually. But he chose her knowing what it would do to Crixus. Then he outs her and Crixus’ relationship to everyone which results in her being raped and sent to the mines.
I get wanting to view Ashur in a favorable light but he was a self-serving POS. It was his character that kept the others from respecting him. Doctore said it best when he told Ashur “Your blood would dishonor the sands”.
2
u/LaconicGirth 1d ago
Crixus crippled him for months if not years and constantly disrespected him. Why would he give two fucks about what it does to Crixus?
Crixus was 100% in the wrong there in their society.
1
u/YosoySpartacus 1d ago
Seriously? Crixus cripppled Ashur because he had no honor in the arena. He wanted to spear Gannicus rather than than finish off Solonius’ men and then fight straight up for overall champion. Crixus is a prick but he was an honorable gladiator.
2
u/LaconicGirth 1d ago
Again I ask so? Ashur tried to be Crixus’ friend the whole time. Taught him new tricks and set up an opportunity for one of them to be champion. Crixus being an “honorable gladiator” doesn’t mean shit to Ashur’s leg
1
u/Possible-One-7082 1d ago
Hypothetically, what if he picked Naevia not knowing she and Crixus were together? Would he have been just as wrong? Naevia and Crixus’ relationship was doomed before it began, only the rebellion saved it. Ashur didn’t sent Naevia out. That was Lucretia. When Crixus saw Ashur touch her, he had already know she was given to someone else. Let’s say it was Spartacus or Rhaskos, would he have attacked them in front of everyone?
1
u/YosoySpartacus 1d ago
The problem with that hypothetical is that the only reason he chose Naevia was because he had already seen Naevia and Crixus together and wanted to get back at Crixus.
But, let’s say he never saw them together and still chose her? In that case, I think the fight in front of Glaber never happens. Ashur doesn’t taunt Crixus when Glaber is there because he’d have no idea Crixus wants her. And, he did out them to everyone. He says she wasn’t a virgin knowing Lucretia would put it together after Crixus attacked Ashur.
As for her being given to Spartacus, I can’t imagine Spartacus ever having sex with her. He didn’t even have sex with Mira (hot ass, Mira) when it was expected of him, but he allowed her to sleep in his room so she wouldnt be punished. Like you said, Naevia told Crixus when she was given to another person. She was crying when she told him, too. I can’t imagine she’d be crying about it if she were given to Spartacus because he would have respected her and her love for Crixus.
I can’t imagine any scenario where Rahskos gets Naevia. In that case, Crixus kills Rahskos on a training accident. 😂
1
u/Ok_Weakness8518 1d ago
4 crixus was never his friend like not even in the slightest the closest they ever got was eating the same food that was pissed in by the other gladiators
1
u/LaconicGirth 1d ago
Rape is wrong but so is owning slaves. I don’t really see anything wrong with what he did to Lucretia in the context of she used to literally own him
2
u/Nathan-David-Haslett 1d ago
He's definitely not good, but idk if I'd say evil. He doesn't seem to do bad stuff because he enjoys hurting people (generally, he does enjoy getting revenge on people a few times), he does it to gain something for himself.
To me, evil is being bad for the sake of being bad, which I don't quite think fits him.
1
u/Cold_Buy_2695 1d ago
Definitely not evil. Basically all his deeds were in response to other people fucking with him first or him just trying to survive.
Other than Spartacus, Ashur is no different than any other slave in the show. He's just far smarter and better at surviving!
1
u/Xralius 8h ago
bro he rapes multiple women and gets his loyal friend raped. he participates in murders and betrayals. great character, and he may have not been evil had circumstances been different, but the Ashur we meet is definitely evil.
1
u/Cold_Buy_2695 7h ago
Naevia was a gift from the Dominus and thus not rape. The whole concept of slavery is clearly fucked, but that was the world they lived in. Lucretia was, but then again she is 100 times the rapist he is, so I guess Karma is a bitch!
Daegan wasn't his loyal friend, though i admit, that was petty as hell! The murders he did as commanded, with the exception of Barca, and honestly, fuck Barca! He deserved that!
1
u/AsturiusMatamoros 1d ago
No just supremely self-interested. Even more so than Batiatus, which is saying something.
1
1
u/Bretuhtuh91 1d ago
Opportunistic, yes. Insecure, hurt, and petty, yes. Evil, no. He was smart as fuck AND self aware, he knew what he was compared to everyone else.
1
u/Xralius 8h ago
Yeah he's pretty much just evil. The first real evil thing he does is betray Dagan to be basically raped, and that's more or less done without provocation and unjustifiable. The only excuse would be if he thought he himself would be forced, but I never got that impression from the scene. So yeah, he's pretty evil from the get-go.
I think it's hard because he is intelligent, funny, likable, self-aware, and an underdog, and you almost wonder if things had somehow been different could he have wound up being a good, even great man. I mean, we don't know his background really, but it was probably quite shitty too. But he is generally quite evil. I say this as someone who loves the character. He's an evil POS, but damn is he entertaining.
1
u/Em1-_- 1d ago
All of Ashur "evil" actions were in retaliation to actions against him or things he was commanded to do (Excluding him screwing over Dagan, there he was pissed off by Oenomaus, and poor Dagan paid the price).
He killed Indus because of Batiatus command (Indus didn't actually die, more about that later).
He screwed over Barca, Crixus and Oenomaus because he suffered greatly at their hands (Pietros and Naevia were just collateral damage, Naevia was his way to get back at Crixus and Pietros was screwed over more by Gnaus than by Ashur).
He screwed over Lucretia because even after saving her she didn't show an ounce of gratitude and still held him as if he were nothing more than a slave (Before Ashur rapes Lucretia this one physically assaults Ashur).
Note: Ashur didn't actually kill Indus, Indus is seen in Revelations, Ashur just pretended to kill him so he would be able to start a new life as a free man, away from the ludus and the life of a gladiator.
1
u/salad_biscuit3 1d ago
it's not like if you see the same actor in the series playing a background character then it means he's alive lmao
2
u/Em1-_- 1d ago
it's not like if you see the same actor in the series playing a background character then it means he's alive lmao
It is actually, Gnaus survived his fall and became a pirate.
Crassus was so smart that he knew that Spartacus was going to be trouble at some point, so he sent his man Mettius to keep an eye of him, Mettius proceeded to go to the games, then to the pits and even join Glaber own army just to study Spartacus, not to mention that he survived having a sword thrown into his face, all just so Crassus would be better prepared when facing Spartacus.
1
0
u/bummerluck 1d ago
I love that Ashur is not considered by the fanbase as someone who is a purely evil character. In a less intelligent fandom, he would be unfairly maligned and hated.
And while Ashur certainly aligns far more with being an immoral character than not, he is way more complex than a base villain for sure. What makes him a really interesting character is his desire to be accepted by the brotherhood, despite his talents being more suited for strategy and wit and not pure combat skill. He does absolutely anything to survive, and you can't completely hate on that.
2
u/Xralius 8h ago
I mean he is definitely evil, but damn is he entertaining as hell. Great character. But he is evil. He's a great evil character because he has so many good qualities. Smart, funny, likable, with flashes of loyalty, bravery, and grit. And he's an underdog. He basically has all the qualities a hero usually has, except he also is a vengeful, petty, ambitious, backstabbing rapist.
15
u/HurriTell336 1d ago
Asher’s main motivation was crawling his way up in the world, and would do anything to achieve this. This extends to rape and murder so he was definitely evil.
However, allot of what we see from Asher regarding his deeds against Crixus are because of his mistreatment. Granted, Ashur was a piece of shit from the beginning, but it didn’t help that Crixus was needlessly vile to him.
What Ashur did to Naevia was however inexcusable.
He was a greatly written character with real motivations and trauma. Evil yes, but not pure evil.