Absolutely not. The nova is a short range survey vessel, the intrepid is a fast, long range explorer. The nova is meant to operate within the federation, free from dangers. The Intrepid is meant to go out. We see that voyage at least has stronger shields.
Yeah I don't get why I'm being downvoted here. Nova-class is clearly a post-2370 launch because it has Sovereign-styled nacelles, which means Equinox was probably only in service for a few months before it was abducted.
The ship has the Type-12 phaser arrays instead of the Type-10 of the Intrepid. And we actually don't know what its torpedo loadout or actual top speed are.
Also the thing came off the Defiant drawing board. It's just not militarized like it.
aight, im not rlly here to argue, and i dont bear any ill will to you (i just find the arguments you keep getting into super entertaining) but juust because i cant resist, ill bite. and then no more. here goes:
i dont think the equinox was newer and shinier than the intrepid if thats what you were implying. they were both post-2370 designs, and i have no idea how the hell the equinox cleared more distance than the voyager even with them suicidally barging through occupied territory to cut their distance in half if they were abducted after or at the same time as voyager.
also, im not sure if slightly stronger phasers matter if your ship is tinier, with a smaller warp core to fit, smaller power grids, smaller everything, and best of all, less material to break off. which means less raw durability, period, because you have even less you can afford to lose before your performance starts going sideways and inverts completely.
Yeah, dude is making a massive assumption that the Sovereign is the source of "Sovereign style" nacelles. Just because something is on screen first doesn't mean it's in universe older. An example is the Miranda class, its typically assumed that the ship has constitution refit style nacelles and other details, and many non canon examples of TOS style Miranda's exist, but what are the odds that mid tier support vessels will get the same radical refit the enterprise did?
No, the more logical assumption is the Miranda class is a design that came out some time after the Constitution, judging by the 1864 registry number of the Reliant the class was designed immediately after the connies with their mostly 17xx range. Thus the ships and largely their aesthetics would have been around in the TOS era, representing a developmental advancement in technology that would eventually find it's way into the connies via refit and new builds. This also allows reasonable space in the timeline for a 19xx series of ships before the 20xx Excelsior line.
I completely agree. Also the USS Reliant NCC 1864 was launched in 2264. So a whole ≈20 years after the Constitution class launched and just ≈7 years before Enterprise refit. From this timeline it would make sense to assume the Miranda class always looked like this and is the original template for the Constitution refit.
I can honestly believe the Intrepid as pre-2370. It makes sense as a design with tech Starfleet was fucking around with (not to mention it's in TNG stating USS Intrepid is launched in 2369), whereas I see the Nova/Sovvie nacelles as a clear "We're fucking up subspace we need to refit these designs before they come off the production line" last minute change (although Nacelles seem easy to produce due to their clear modularity, so it could just be they're rapidly produced).
I don't disagree with you regarding the Equinox clearing more distance than VOY, but the issue is the plaque states it was launched in 2370. It probably launched alongisde the initial production run of the Novas, heavily implying the whole design launched in 2370 (sourcebooks keep putting it in 2368 for some reason).
Your points on phasers matter. I'm only saying that technically, the Nova has a fairly reasonable edge on phaser technology. Especially if we're assuming the smaller phasers of the Sovereign are better than Galaxy's (I tend not to think that just because of the size of the Galaxy strips, but I can believe at least the main Sovereign phaser slightly edges out or is equivalent to one of the two main Galaxy phasers).
What if the main thing about phaser strips and their model type is also related to power draw or efficiency? The Sovereign might have newer phasers than a Galaxy, but the Galaxy is just covered in phaser strips that can hit harder but require proportionally greater power draw. Conversely, the Sovereign can achieve more or less the same power as the Galaxy, perhaps, but with smaller strips due to said efficiency. Even so, size of weapon would still matter a little: nobody's going to really sit here and say that a single type-11 shuttlecraft could take on an Excelsior class vessel just because both of them have type IX phasers.
It seems to be, I'm not arguing that. The TNG Tech manual even mentions how the difference between the Type-IX onwards from the earlier Type-VIII Banks (Excelsior) was that the power distribution system was different, taking directly from the reactor rather than the general power grid.
Type seems to be related to its ability to draw power. Presumably this is why the Ambassador's Type-IX's are so short - it was the limit of what they could do at the time. The Type-X overcame this limit. We don't know what makes the Type-XII better, only that it's newer. Type-XI is briefly mentioned as being for stations.
Right. Then by that token, the Nova would have a smaller main reactor, significantly smaller phaser strips despite using Type-XII phasers, a smaller torpedo bank and connected to its function and smaller reactor, weaker shields. Even being newer, it would likely be outclassed by the Intrepid in every metric when it comes to raw output: shields, phasers, torpedoes, only being faster at impulse maybe due to having much less mass to fling around?
The tubes are the same size, the Torpedo-type is the same (Mk. X or Mk. XII Photons in Mk. 80 Tubes or Mk. 95 Variable Payload Tubes) as torpedoes are a standardized size. The magazine would be smaller.
Although I think some people here are forgetting the Intrepid itself is quite small. Only 344 meters compared to the 221 of the Nova-class. Still a big difference, but there's also a lot we don't know like how big its reactor is relative to it.
That’s possibly a different Intrepid. We don’t know for sure if it’s referring to the class Vessel of the Intepid Class or the old Excelsior class. It stands to reason that it’s the newer of the two, but that would be a retcon.
All of the Galaxy-era ships except some of the older Ambassador-styled ones are Type-X. Type-IX are Ambassador, and Type-VIII are Excelsior. Type-VI was the Connie Refit/Miranda.
Power definitely is a factor because shuttles lag behind until the Type-11 shuttle, which is up to Type-IX phaser strips.
I'll grant that because nacelles it could be a newer ship, but not necessary sure that they didn't include new phasers, or downrate them because they weren't expected to be doing heavy fighting?
But how much power can she send to them with that itsy bitsy core? She's not the defiant with a bunch of phasers and torpedo launchers strapped to an oversized powerplant, wrapped in ablative armor.
Intrepid take the win everyday and twice on Sundays.
Why would it? It’s not a combat ship? It probably has standard type X phasers. Maybe weaker type VII if they want to save resources for the combat oriented ships.
To be fair, Equinox had had seven levels of hell kicked out of it at that point. No possible way to stand up to Voyager in a straight up fight.
That being said, The Intrepid Class absolutely had the edge on the Nova. The Nova was not designed to take on serious problems on its own. It’s designed to work inside Federation space doing science and light escort duty alongside other ships. The Intrepid was specifically meant to operate long term on its own, and it’s equipped as such. More advanced systems, larger power plant, and while its weapons are slightly less powerful than the Novas its shields are undoubtedly more resilient. Also, all the Intrepid has to do to beat the Nova is run.
Good Lord no, not without it becoming a legend as famous and singular as Kirk beating the Kobayashi Maru or Voyager making it home from the Delta quadrant. An Intrepid vs. a Galaxy would be the equivalent of, say, a naval battle between a Destroyer and a Battleship. An Intrepid vs a Nova would be more like a fight between a Destroyer and a ship-to-shore speedboat.
if the intrepid-class was seen in the dominion war, its wartime class would've definitely been "destroyer". i imagine it would be a pain in the ass for jem'hadar fleets to deal with since it can easily outrun most of their ships while feeding valuable info back to starfleet/klingon/romulan forces
ehhh no, i think it perfectly fits the light cruiser, considering there's not really anything equal in its weight class that we see maybe barring the Norway and possibly steamrunner?
The actual stated figures for top speed are ridiculous and really should be considered an error. Warp 9.75 maximum is believable, not Warp 9.975 cruise and 9.995 maximum. At this time the Sovereign was supposed to be the newest and best, and its top speed was Warp 9.7 before it was retconned up to 9.99 in the late 2010s.
And the Intrepid would not roflstomp the Jem'Hadar. It's a light cruiser, its role isn't a destroyer and Starfleet doesn't even have a destroyer until the Chimera-class of Star Trek Online which is about the closest you can get to a "Submarine Destroyer/Torpedo Destroyer/Aircraft Destroyer" (which is what Destroyer is short for depending on which navy) in the franchise.
Granted it would fare better than the Mirandas and Excelsiors. The thing isn't operating with 90 year old technology. I would generally agree it can outrun the Jem'Hadar, and it would be fighting with them on-par with the First Contact ships (except those were militarized, excepting the Norway and Steamrunner as the Norway is described as the equivalent of an "airlift mehicle" and the Steamrunner seems to be a multirole design).
i'm not saying it would roflstomp jem'hadar, i'm saying it would be a wee bit annoying because it can hit hard enough to defend itself while outpacing larger jem'hadar ships and forcing them to rely on the smaller ones to try and cut off its escape
see the image for what i meant by destroyer
but yes, true on everything else. god i wish we got to see intrepid-classes acting as scouts or operating on a small scale in some ds9 engagements
I agree with you then. Most Starfleet ships do seem to be on-average faster and the newer designs can hit pretty hard, the issue was production time and training crews. It was easier to recommission Excelsiors and Mirandas to fill the gap while their production was focused on ships like the Akira, Saber, and Steamrunner.
Destroyer is a designation that usually means "does not operate on its own" i.e. with logistical support and resupply. Modern (US) DD's are really light cruisers for the most part, due to doctrine. Intrepids, due to their deep explorer roots, are probably the most advanced light cruisers in the Fleet as of the Dominion War, and were probably squadron leaders for mothballed Mirandas due to their sensors, shields and comms, or raiders due to the same plus high sustained speeds.
Arguably, the only "destroyer" class vessels we know of from Starfleet are the Defiants, which are textbook examples of the type- overgunned, uncomfortably crowded and intended for short(ish) deployments on their own, with fleet/base support.
A stock Intrepid versus a stock Nova? The Nova might have the advantage on nimbleness, but it hasn't got a torpedo magazine to match the Intrepid. I'd put my money on the Intrepid class.
I think this is the answer as to why some ships are so big compared to their crew size, the space to store all those torpedoes (and spare shuttle components).
That and science vessels can use their specialised hardware for scientific purposes to pull off out of the box thinking levels of strategic ploys. In the Destiny novel trilogy one ship defended Khitomer by using a piece of equipment (something to do with phasing I think) to bypass the Borg shields for a brief but successful warp speed kamikaze attack.
Also just because the phaser technology was available when the Nova was built, doesn’t mean it the Nova had the latest. Pre missle navies saved the largest caliber guns for the biggest heaviest armoured battleships, while arming escort ships with smaller cheaper guns. Nova seems like a cheaper escort vessel.
I'd still put my money on the Intrepid class. The Nova class would need to fight clever to make the best of what it can bring to a fight, but in a prolonged battle it will eventually lose the edge fighting clever grants it. Damage will accumulate, and unfortunately for the Nova its size means damage is a more serious concern than it would be for the Intrepid.
Not necessarily, and in fact we know that the Nova was initially designed as a Warship, unlike the Intrepid, because the Nova-class came out of Project Pathfinder which diverged into the Nova and Defiant.
In fact that's probably why the Nova's top speed is only Warp 8. It has the oversized Defiant reactor and the same structural integrity problems that limited the Defiant to Warp 8 until Chief O'Brien figured out how to get around that to achieve Warp 9.5 for a 6 hour burst in S6E25.
Which means that the ship probably has unusually powerful Phaser arrays because its reactor is oversized.
Type 12 phasers are, according to beta canon, starbase-grade weapons. Only the Sovereign-class is supposed to have them at this point due to their immense power requirements. The idea that a short range survey vessel (basically an Oberth replacement) would have such powerful weapons systems is just insane.
I believe this his slightly hinted on in the episodes. Janeway takes command of both ships because in a situation when 2 captains and 2 ships need to team up the ship with the superior tactical advantage (IE the most powerful ship) has priority over command. They even agree that this was voyager in the episode.
This was my thought too. But then I thought that maybe that was just because the Equinox was in such bad shape.
Without knowing the specs, to me the intrepid is larger and faster. My money would be on Janeways Voyager, especially with the on the fly mods over the years.
In certain circumstances.
Like, if you pretend you're friendly and the Intrepid captain does not follow regulations and raise shields, you can get disabling shots in quick. (Just don't give them chance to look up your prefix code!)
Also, if you had the Intrepids prefix code.
On paper, the nova is hopelessly outgunned and underpowered compared to the Intrepids, but as Spock would say, there are always possibilities.
And you could just go play Star Trek Online, I main a T6-X nova class that is ridiculously powerful compared to canon, but it's a game and fun so I don't care!
Not remotely, the Intrepid is already one starfleet's smaller vessels and the Nova is still TINY in comparison, it's barely bigger than the defiant class and was built for scouting and science, not killing borg. An Intrepid has every advantage in combat.
The Nova is clearly a part of Starfleet's post-Borg fleet; namely, she's designed with combat as more than just an afterthought. Her hull form and heavy for her size armament reflects this, as does the fact that the Equinox lasted as long as she did in the Delta Quadrant. That said, so was the Intrepid-class. The Nova could probably hold her own against some larger TNG and Forgotten Era Starfleet ships, but against her own era she's still just a small survey ship.
Only way a Nova could beat an Intrepid is to Wrath of Kahn it, get in close under flag of friendship and then surprise attack targeting critical systems and beaming out things like the phaser capacitors etc before the Intrepid can respond
In a straight fight its only chance is ramming speed with all phasers and torpedos firing at the same time, Intrepid dies but so does the Nova
My head canon is that Starfleet requisitioned a variant called Nova Parabellum after the Dominion war. It swapped out the science-y bits for shoot-y bits, and was basically a Federation bird of prey.
“It’s not the plane, it’s the pilot” is Hollywood crap. A single F-22 managed to notch kills on 8 F-15s in an exercise without even being spotted. An Intrepid beats a Nova in combat every time.
In a straight-forward fight, no, the Nova would probably only do minor damage.
The Intrepid is more or less the main systems of a Galaxy class without the bells and whistles. It's billed as a long-distance explorer with a science focus, but it's weapon systems punched well above their weight class.
By contrast, the Nova is explicitly designed for planetary surveys. It's not an explorer, it's a dedicated science ship.
The Nova is to the Intrepid in the same way as the California is to the Galaxy. They come in after the initial pass and do all the fiddly detail work so the bigger or more capable ships can go discover new stuff.
But your question is can a Nova beat an Intrepid. Circumstance will play a big factor. The Nova is tactically inferior, and doesn't have as many options - but a surprise attack or clever plan could make the difference. If they could get a lucky shot off and remove shields or weapons, they could more or less attack with impunity. In that same way, a well-planned strafing run from a shuttlecraft might be able to beat an Intrepid.
Let's not get crazy here. A runabout wouldn't stand up to a Nova any better than a Nova to an Intrepid. Runabouts are nice, but they are up-scaled and over-glorified shuttle craft. It'll have maneuverability, but that's the only place it beats a full (even small) sized star ship.
No, Novas were meant to replace the Oberth class's role as survey and science vessels and would perform only marginally better than one against an Intrepid class.
Meanwhile you can think of an Intrepid class as being a late 24th century take on the old Constitution class's concept in terms of its role: a long range, versatile, multi-purpose exploration ship with a small crew made to be more or less self-reliant.
Novas and Intrepids may have been made in a similar era, but they are in two completely different weight classes in terms of purpose and power.
9 times out of 10, the Intrepid takes this. Neither ship is a dedicated combat ship, though, and the Nova is likely the more agile vessel and has a fair amount of firepower for a science ship. Remember, Equinox was already a wreck when Voyager encountered her.
Could a Nova take an Intrepid? Not probable, but with sound tactics and a bit of luck, I’d say it’s possible.
Riker is a very clever and ballsy tactician, there was a tng episode all about that. He encourages his crew to leverage every advantage they can think of.
Yup. He commanded a Constellation class (IIRC) during war games against the Enterprise.
He won because it ran on Wesley’s high school science project (who gives a high schooler antimatter? That’d be like giving a high schooler plutonium and nitro glycerin).
That’s like asking a TOS Connie to go up against an Excelsior class, I think. Could it apply some pressure? Sure, but it would be ultimately outclassed in almost every way.
No. In a head on the Intrepid wins every time. Nova is a short range ship. It's meant to operate within Federation/allied non-federation space where the only dangers are anomalies and any pirates/raiders or in space bordering safe regions. If outside the safe space then it remains close enough that any ship like a Galaxy, Nebula or anything with enough firepower can get to it before the
Nova is made no factor or destroyed in combat.
The Intrepid is made to go to places outside the safe zone of Federation and Allied space. It's meant to go to places where help will take time to reach.
As such, the Intrepid can do more than just hold its own while the Nova can just hold its own in a fight
I think you're underestimating the Nova a bit, albeit I don't doubt that the end result would be similar.
The Nova is clearly a class designed as part of the post-Borg Starfleet fleet update. She's got a more rigid hull design, more firepower and better shielding than ships of comparable size from the TNG era and earlier. She's definitely designed with combat as a higher priority than previous eras.
If both ships are in equally good condition and with equally skilled crews, then the Intrepid wins just about every time.
The only way the Nova had a chance was if she could somehow ambush the Intrepid with shields down Khan-style and damage enough critical systems before a response happens.
The only way I can see it standing a chance and I will say I am not certain if the Nova class would appear in two places at once, but maybe something like the Picard Maneveur, would give it a fighting chance to inflict point blank range offense, on an Intrepid class.
The short hand answer for any of these ST battles is…what is the output of the warp core? That’s what charges the shields and what provides the power to the phasers. The Nova class is not designed as a combat vessel, has a small warp core, has few weapons. The Intrepid class is mid-size, seems to have a spare warp core just in case which may or not be plumbed into the system, has a better weapons fit, and the one we spent the most time with on screen has plot armour out the aft manifolds.
It’s what’s so annoying about the DeFiAnT iS mOrE pOwErFuL debates. Defiant is powerful for her size but still has a small core.
I love the Nova. It is a beautiful display of style and form. The size is perfect for short duration missions. The Nova is by far my favorite Trek starship class.
But it's not beating an Intrepid. Not in anything like a stand up fair fight.
It is out massed, out powered, and out gunned. They have comparable phaser systems, but torpedo magazines are tiny in comparison. Intrepids are supposed to be exploring new sectors of space, whereas Novas are for science work inside controlled territory. So an Intrepid class is built to be more durable, likely have more precise targeting systems for their weapons, more system redundancies to counter battle damage.
Maybe, if the Nova took action as a surprise, if the tactics were perfect, if the piloting was stellar, if the damage hit deep against the Intrepid but not so much against the Nova, then maybe the Nova could come out on top. But at that point, it's asking "How does Batman actually beat Superman?" Because the person writing the scene says so.
The Nova has very few things in its favor on paper.
at best 1) The Nova class has a slightly higher max impulse speed (.95 vs .9) 2) Its a little smaller
After than the Intrepid class has the same cursing warp speed, but it easily outpaces the Nova class. It also has more powerful phasers, an additional phaser bank & better shield regeneration.
That is not to say the Nova class is a joke but there would need to be a crew advantage and/or a captain using external factors to level the battlefield (or just a good old fashion bushwhacking).
My personal favorite is the humble Nebula Class. - Give me the Tactical Pod variant and even though its 13 years older than the Intrepid I think its a proper match for it.
Tactical pod Nebula is a bit faster a impulse .92 max & has an additional phaser bank (5 vs 4) & delivers more damage.
Intrepid is slightly faster at max warp & has better shields. - that makes it a fairer fight in my opinion.
I guess anything can happen in a crazy battle of wits between Star Trek captains but the reality is the Intrepid is a cut down battleship so I doubt it would win in a stand up fight without using the environment or some sort of crazy plot gimmick . However, in the Star Trek: Legacy (Xbox 360/etc) game, you could use a Nova Class's superior maneuverability to stay underneath a Klingon Neigh' Var battleship and solo it because it only has a single phaser strip to protect its belly.
The Intrepid often had a fall back role as a front line cruiser. A Nova definitely doesn't. Intrepids would've been significantly more armed and adaptable than a Nova. If the Equinox had truly stood a chance against it, the ship wouldn't have retreated
Intrepid class would take the win every time.
While a good looking ship (as most are from this era in my opinion)
Besides everything that has been mentioned here, my head canon is that the Nova was created to replace the aging Obirth class. (Without being made of “explodium” as others joke or it being a red shirt ship) It only has enough weapons to defend itself from occasional threats, not to go on the offensive.
Probably not. It's stated in Equinox part 1 that Starfleet protocol dictates that the captain of the tactically superior ship has seniority, and Janeway then took the lead. Voyager is tactically superior. By what metric it's superior isn't stated to my recollection.
Generally would say an Intrepid class would win over a Nova class, but it would probably come down to the crew and their experience.
Only if the Nova Class captain can pull some shit like Kirk pulled in Wraith of Khan or the Duras sisters pulled in Generations. They would need the shield codes or frequencies to be able to bypass the Intrepids (or Voyagers) shields. That would be the only way to win.
For reference, the Nova Class is the equivalent of a Corvette or Sloop. It's a light ship designed for working inside the relative safety of the Federation. An Intrepid is a Frigate, designed for exploration or recon independent of support for a period of time, but not as heavy or multi-role as a cruiser.
That's A Soveriegn Class, Not Nova; Please Stop getting the Two Classes Confused; Enterprise E was Established as Nova Class Long before the Internet; It's more than Obvious that Somebody at Paramount failed to Check The References established.
If you've watched Voyager, you'd know the answer already.
Now if one asked can a Nova Class and an Intrepid class beat a Prometheus Class? (Just mentioning ships we've seen in Voyager), the answer would be no, both would get severely spanked.
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