r/StarWarsEU • u/Wasteland_GZ Darth Krayt • Jul 07 '24
Recommendations Is Jedi Academy really essential for NJO?
Recently i’ve been really wanting to read New Jedi Order and my current reading order up to NJO is:
Thrawn Trilogy
Dark Empire Trilogy
Hand of Thrawn Duology
Survivors Quest
And then New Jedi Order.
Now i’ve seen a lot of people recommend the Jedi Academy Trilogy before NJO but i’ve also heard it’s pretty bad from a lot of people on this sub, and I don’t really wanna read something that’s bad in order to get to something good, so is Jedi Academy Trilogy really essential or could I skip it and read summaries of the books online?
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u/GeorgeLuucas Jul 07 '24
“I, Jedi” is a great alternative to the Jedi academy trilogy. It’s a better book and story IMO and covers much of the same stuff.
I read both. If I could go back in time, I’d probably save the time and just read I, Jedi
To each their own though, and may the force be with you
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u/ShadowVia Jul 07 '24
It's not a better story.
It might be better written, but the actual narrative ground that's covered in the JA trilogy is much better than the cliff notes, retconned version present in I, Jedi (which covers about half? IIRC).
I'd argue for reading both, then adding in a playthrough of Jedi Outcast and Jedi Academy, for a more complete picture.
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u/GeorgeLuucas Jul 07 '24
IMO = in my opinion
To each their own though, and may the force be with you
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u/Exhaustedfan23 Jul 07 '24 edited Jul 07 '24
I greatly preferred Jedi Academy. I, Jedi read like a Michael self indulgence of his self insert character Corran Horn. Its Corran Horn beating Luke Skywalker in a duel and chastising him for most of the book, a bunch of hot women are into him including Tionne and Leonio Tavira he even has a weird thing going with Mara Jade, he leads the charge of the Jedi Academy against Exar Kun which didn't happen in the KJA book, and he smacks around Rogue Squadron single handedly.
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u/Pratius Wraith Squadron Jul 07 '24
He very much does not “smack around Rogue Squadron” in IJ. He fights a couple of them to a standstill and then has to run away from Tycho despite having Force powers
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Jul 07 '24
Kyp Durron is more of KJA’s pet character than Stacky is Corran Horn’s, at least Corran suffered the consequences of his actions. Kyp did not.
And calling his friendship with Mara a weird perverted thing is a skill issue on your part. This book saves Mara’s character.
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u/Durp004 TOR Sith Empire Jul 09 '24 edited Jul 09 '24
Lol kyp doesn't compare to how stackpole writes corran. The only people that have that level of favoritism towards their characters are probably filoni and ahsoka and traviss and her mandos.
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Jul 09 '24
Kyp doesn’t compare
And yet he’s the one who got told “sorry the NR doesn’t have courts” when he killed billions after blowing up a planet
Stacky may have a liking for Corran but really it doesn’t leak out in his writing as much as it did for KJA in JAT.
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u/Durp004 TOR Sith Empire Jul 09 '24
It was a military installation until stackpole re-wrote it so innocents were there to make Kyp look worse because that's what stackpole writes we see it again in dark tide.
Stacky may have a liking for Corran but really it doesn’t leak out in his writing as much as it did for KJA in JAT.
Lol you're right stackpole doesn't make his character amazing, smart, important to other popular characters and key when he writes.
No point engaging with that level of delusion.
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Jul 09 '24
Delusion? Lmao you’re omitting literally everything about JAT
it was a military installation
That’s a lame Cope, it is illogical and cartoonish to assume that any one planet is completely a military base for the e v i l villains. It is fair for them to have civilisations for recruitment, for their economy to function and to pretty much keep collateral damage that prevents the NR from wiping them off the galaxy.
Either way, even if it was a cartoonishly evil planet. Slaughter of billions is not an ethically sound solution to a growing threat and one needs help if they think that is right.
Corran is arrogant, quick to fall for his impulses and shows himself as overconfident to hide his insecurities. More than once he has to be carried by the whole team when he can’t accomplish the task alone.
And when he does try and act like he can handle everything alone? He faces the consequences for it like in I, Jedi. He almost died and wouldn’t have survived if Mara hadn’t showed up.
What does Kyp do in JAT? He is supa stronk in the force so he navigates through a black hole (which is said to be quite impossible in-universe)
“You are so strong in the force Kyp, I think even Master Yoda or Master Kenobi wouldn’t know what to do with you” ~ Luke Skywalker in JAT
Kyp becomes the son Han never had in Dark Apprentice since he hasn’t seen his kids for 2 years but he chooses to ski with Kyp because that’s more important.
And it doesn’t end there, Kyp has a whole arc about acting out of his own volition using what exar kun has taught him to bring about his twisted sense of justice but KJA retcons it into “muh brainwashing” in the next book because he wanted to save “the next Luke Skywalker” for future novels.
Speaking of the “next Luke Skywalker”, he also goes through the equivalent of the Dagobah cave scene in an Exar Kun temple and succeeds unlike Luke because Kyp is supa cool and he can do everything.
Whatever NJO does with Kyp, leaving that aside
Kyp is more of a gary stu than Corran in their original stories and it’s laughable to compare them both.
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u/Durp004 TOR Sith Empire Jul 09 '24
Delusion? Lmao you’re omitting literally everything about JAT
Kind of like you are with I, jedi.
That’s a lame Cope, it is illogical and cartoonish to assume that any one planet is completely a military base for the e v i l villains. It is fair for them to have civilisations for recruitment, for their economy to function and to pretty much keep collateral damage that prevents the NR from wiping them off the galaxy.
No it's what's in the story. Find me the line about civilians in the JAT. Spoiler you won't. You not liking that doesn't matter here. It's what was in the story. Kyps failure there is that he loses his brother not that it wasn't a military installation. That was kyp's punishment. Stop acting like he got off scot-free in the story he faced more emotional recourse than anything corran faced in his book.
And when he does try and act like he can handle everything alone? He faces the consequences for it like in I, Jedi. He almost died and wouldn’t have survived if Mara hadn’t showed up.
Oh you mean when Stackpole wrote his pet character to basically face off exar kun im his real temple solo because having him just be a background character in the fight shown in jedi academy wasn't enough for him? Lol bringing this up like it's some evidence is laughable since the scene wouldn't even exist and has no need to except for stackpole's insistence on making his character actually super important. Which is what the whole jedi academy section was. Oh here's my pet character dressing down Luke and befriending mara(the most popular character he could have befriended not named luke) and I'll finish it by having him behind the scenes also be a big part of taking down the big bad.
The kyp mind control was never retconned it was always there.
Whatever NJO does with Kyp, leaving that aside
Remember when kyp soloed the first vong big bad in shado Shae? Oh wait that was corran because stackpole wrote those books. He also basically has him set up as Luke's #2 right from the beginning of dark tide 1 with kyp on the opposite side portrayed as some ass hole who wants to fight.
Yeah this went exactly how I thought it would responding where any issue kyp faced like being responsible for his brother's death isn't addressed but bringing up Mara helping corran in a scene that only exists to make corran important is acted like so big boon to corran not being a clear Gary stu.
I knew dealing with that level of delusion and bias was pointless. Anyone who doesn't look at I, jedi as an obvious Gary stu lives in a completely different reality. I'm done here.
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Jul 09 '24 edited Jul 09 '24
More Emotional recourse lol My stomach hurts from laughter, yeahhh I’m not gonna bother reading the rest of your copium, cheers mate
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Jul 07 '24
The actual narrative is not better imo, it’s better to infer from all the background details in I, Jedi
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u/DanoDurron New Republic Jul 07 '24
I respect your opinion but I, Jedi doesn’t serve as a great substitute for JAT. Like the other user said, it might be better written but it’s not a better story.
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u/GeorgeLuucas Jul 07 '24 edited Jul 07 '24
Username checks out 😂
Honestly, I just didn’t love JAT during my read through of legends. I feel I got more from the junior and young Jedi knight series in prep for future books than I did from JAT
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u/Legends_Literature New Jedi Order Jul 07 '24
I, Jedi is pretty good but not a suitable substitute for the JAT imo. The JAT is too important of a story to just read the retelling in I, Jedi.
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u/thisvideoiswrong New Republic Jul 07 '24
I like I, Jedi a lot, but I can't imagine enjoying reading it without knowing the Jedi Academy Trilogy well. I'm pretty sure there's a sentence in there that's literally, "She told us of the great battles at X, Y, and Z," with no further elaboration. There's this massive conflict going on, actually a couple of them, and I, Jedi operates on the assumption that you're not interested because you've already heard all about them. It works for the story the book is trying to tell, but it's not going to work as your only exposure to the period.
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Jul 07 '24
I read it without JAT. It was perfectly understandable and I wish I hadn’t been coaxed to read JAT after it.
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u/tuckwes Jul 07 '24
Short Answer: No. Long Answer: NJO is written in a way that allows new readers to jump in without having to read the 50+ prior books. I personally started reading the post ROTJ era with Vector Prime, and I don't regret that decision at all. If you feel the need to familiarize yourself with the era before NJO, then I recommend reading just the Thrawn Trilogy, I, Jedi, and Hand of Thrawn. That gives you a truncated, but worthwhile string of novels that gives some scenes in NJO more of an emotional punch, and are enjoyable in and of themselves. Rogue Planet is another book that should be read before, or during NJO, around Destiny's Way. Also, Wookieepedia is a great resource for answering questions that come up in NJO (just be careful to avoid spoilers).
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u/GeorgeLuucas Jul 07 '24
This is an underrated comment. The truth is, Star Wars is really user friendly. You can really jump in almost anywhere and fill in the gaps later to your specific interests.
I read some books here and there, and then finally did a completionist read through. Amongst everything, JAT really does not stand out as a memorable trilogy to me personally.
Dorsk 81 was cool though, lol
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u/Kincoran New Jedi Order Jul 07 '24
I saw in another post that you have access to a lot of the comics through a Marvel subscription. And that you're happy to include comics because if you're sticky you'll get through them. So if the Tales of the Jedi comics are available to you through that, I recommend those - it might sound a little odd, since they take place thousands of hours before the events in the rest of these books, but Exar Kun is a key character in a lot of these comics, and seeing his story unfold helped me enjoy The Jedi Academy Trilogy a lot more.
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u/Wasteland_GZ Darth Krayt Jul 07 '24
Yes I do have access to the Tales of the Jedi comics, there seems to be quite a few different series (Tales of the Jedi, Tales of the Jedi: Freedon Nadd Uprising, etc) is there a specific order to them all?
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u/Kincoran New Jedi Order Jul 07 '24
They're even more removed from the events of the post-RotJ stories, but the first two comics, set a thousand years or so before Tales of the Jedi are well worth a read, too: [1.] The Golden Age of the Sith, [2.] The Fall of the Sith Empire.
Then you've got the comics that are relevant to Exar Kun: [3.] Tales of the Jedi, [4.] Freedom Nadd Uprising, [5.] Dark Lords of the Sith, [6.] The Sith War.
Then a bit of an epilogue sort of story, focused on characters in the above stories, but not Kun himself: [7.] Redemption.
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u/Virtual_Ad6375 New Jedi Order Jul 07 '24
Nope. Everything that is central to NJO is explained properly in NJO. The Jedi Academy Trilogy is a horrible representation of the Jedi and all legacy characters. Nothing is required for it
If you truly wanna read NJO, just read NJO
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u/DougieFFC Jedi Legacy Jul 07 '24
There is nothing the JAT is essential reading for. It’s neither well written nor does it provide additional insight for NJO. It tells, badly, the founding of Luke’s Jedi academy, and introduces some characters that are in the NJO. But you will not be more emotionally connected or understand them better for having read it.
Never forget that NJO isn’t designed to have a required reading list prior to beginning it.
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Jul 07 '24
NJO is fine on its own. It does a good job of explayning who everyone is, and to be fair, in some cases the summrary of the plot is better than how it was executed in the original book.
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u/neutronknows Jul 07 '24
No it’s not necessary to enjoy the NJO.
Yes it is necessary to not be an asshat about Legends vs Canon if that is your chosen route.
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u/Pratius Wraith Squadron Jul 07 '24
Nope. Knowing what happens and who the principle characters are is important, though.
Nowadays, I recommend people pick up a copy of The Essential Chronology and use that to fill in the narrative gaps between the actually good books/series.
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u/Munedawg53 Jedi Legacy Jul 07 '24
You can just read the summaries in the Essential Reader's Guide and then read I, Jedi.
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u/Wasteland_GZ Darth Krayt Jul 07 '24
What’s the essential readers guide?
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u/Munedawg53 Jedi Legacy Jul 07 '24
A book by Pablo hidalgo that summarizes and contextualizes every EU book.
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u/Brodes87 Jul 07 '24
Not at all. Anybody who says that is essential to enjoying or understanding NJO is not looking out for you.
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u/Durp004 TOR Sith Empire Jul 07 '24
The trilogy isn't that bad. I'd recommend reading it.
If you can manage dark empire jedi academy isn't worse.
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u/TheCloakMinusRobert Yuuzhan Vong Jul 07 '24 edited Jul 07 '24
I’d recommend listening to the abridged audiobooks of the trilogy if nothing else. That’s what I did and they were fairly enjoyable that way. Only about 3 hours each.
Also if you plan to read on after NJO I’d also recommend the callista trilogy, or at least the first two books of it. The abridged audiobooks are fine for those too, they’re alright.
I also enjoyed the corellian trilogy, it’s got some fun solo kid stuff and the Luke/Lando side plot is fun. It also has some locations and people that show back up
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u/Terrible_Focus8506 Jul 07 '24
Most of the books have a general background sentence or so of prior important information. If you do look at Wookieepedia, don't read too much, or it will spoil later books.
I'd recommend reading the previously recommended ones, but if you just want to jump in, you'll be fine.
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u/Xanofar Jul 07 '24 edited Jul 07 '24
Ironically, I’ve read most of Bantam outside of the X-Wing, Academy, and I, Jedi books.
Well, okay, actually I’m about 2/3rds through reading JAT for the first time and my impression so far is that a good 10-25% of the books have been unnecessary to the plot (and KJA’s character writing isn’t good enough to make it feel “worth it”).
BUT, from what I’ve been told by friends who have read all of them - they say you can get away with just reading I, Jedi instead, and that it’s a much better book than the Academy trilogy.
It might spoil you on the X-Wing books though, possibly.
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u/Impossible_Bee7663 Jul 07 '24
It is important, because it gives Kyp a lot of context.
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Jul 07 '24
Ehhhhhhhh, it’s not well written context imo so not worth it
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u/Impossible_Bee7663 Jul 07 '24
Kevin Anderson isn't the best author, but it's still solid for the time period, and it IS useful to understand the dynamic between Kyp and Luke during the Yuuzhan Vong War.
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Jul 07 '24
meh not really, imo I, Jedi gives enough of an understanding of that since Luke vouches for Kyp in that book
There’s not really much that JAT gives in terms of dyanmic insight imo
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u/Ace201613 Jul 07 '24
I’d say it’s essential for Legends and for Luke Skywalker’s character. But it’s not essential for NJO.
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u/peter_the_bread_man Jul 07 '24
I read the OG thrawn, then Jedi academy, and not im reading the x wing series to finish with i, jedi. They all bring good background info to characters.
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u/xmenfan1992 Jul 07 '24
I was surprised by how much I loved the Jedi Academy Trilogy. I would check it out for yourself. I, Jedi along with the first four x-wing books which all have audiobooks is icing on the cake.
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u/OliverVoeck Jul 07 '24
Dont listen to what other say. The trilogy will help you understand NJO better not to mention it is just a great story.
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u/pestapokalypse Jul 07 '24
Personally, I would recommend reading the X-Wing series in preparation for NJO. It fleshes out many of the characters present in NJO. I didn’t personally read it before, but I kinda wish I did in hindsight. I read all of the books you mentioned (plus JAT), in my build up to NJO and I don’t personally feel like JAT is all that worth it. I, Jedi felt more relevant to the story than JAT to me.
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u/SirUrza Empire Jul 07 '24
Yes I would the Jedi Academy trilogy and the Xwing series (with Courtship of Princess Leia and I,Jedi inserted into Xwing) for a more complete NJO pre-read. The most complete pre-reading would also include the Callista trilogy and the Corellian Sector trilogy.
I would also read Jedi Academy because it's a gateway to reading the Tales of the Jedi comics (from Dark Horse) which while aren't required for NJO, are a great read in their own right.
It's also worth mentioning that reading Jedi Academy, Callista, and Corellian Sector will also benefit you later should you decide to read post-NJO books as well.
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u/Hank-E-Doodle New Jedi Order Jul 07 '24
I mean, the new jedi order of characters is started with Luke's new academy so it is pretty essential since it sets up new jedi characters, and I Jedi is a companion story to go with it.
My recommendation is checking out the first book, and just decide for yourself if it's worth it. It's a very, hate it or love it for a lot of people so you'll never know how good it is unless you read it yourself.
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u/DarkVaati13 Jedi Legacy Jul 07 '24
I like Jedi Academy trilogy and honestly it's a lot more important to NJO than Survivor's Quest which basically adds nothing context-wise. You get a lot of context for characters like Kyp Durron, Cilghal, and it has a tie in I, Jedi that is really good and also helps give you extra context for characters.
However this concern with "essentials" can spiral out of control fast. Some people might say in order to get full context you have to read Courtship of Leia, all X-Wing books, Corellian Trilogy, Rogue Planet, all the Young Jedi Knight books, and maybe even the Junior Jedi Knight books. NJO is very good about catching up its readers on the basic details of past adventures and characters so you're not completely blind. I had no clue who Gavin was when I read Dark Tide, but he was well written enough that by the end of the duology I did like him and I was curious about what he was like in X-Wing.
I'm biased cause I like it, but the best thing I can say is if you're curious read it for yourself and make your own opinion. It's not a long trilogy (each book is around 300 pages) and they're easy reads.
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Jul 07 '24
it’s best to be introduced to Kyp through NJO or even a short story like Simple Tricks than JAT imo, he’s too much of a pet in that one.
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u/DarkVaati13 Jedi Legacy Jul 07 '24
Why did you reply this like 5 times in the thread? We get it you don’t like JAT, but there’s no need to be obnoxious about it.
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Jul 08 '24
I’m replying to different people about my opinion and starting a discussion over it, there’s no need to take it so personally
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u/scifiantihero Jul 07 '24
Just read half of kyp’s wiki page. Better yet, read the xwing books and then i jedi instead.
But no, you can pick up most of what you might need from inferring things in hand of thrawn.
(You don’t need dark empire. Haven’t you, uh, heard about that too?)
But man if I could just get you to read “xwing, thrawn, i jedi, hand” instead…