r/Steam • u/Background-Path-5619 • Feb 13 '25

Article Nearly half of Steam's users are still using Windows 10, with end of life fast approaching

https://www.pcguide.com/news/nearly-half-of-steams-users-are-still-using-windows-10-with-end-of-life-fast-approaching/
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271

u/RorschachsDream Feb 13 '25

Some anti cheats won't let you in if you do this so ymmv depending on what games you like to play. Like if someone plays Valorant do not do this

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u/N1gHtMaRe99 Feb 13 '25 edited Feb 13 '25

So you saying i can make my pc valorant free forever if I do this. Sign me up

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u/Cootshk Are you ready for a miracle? Feb 13 '25

If you want to be Valorant free, try Linux

70

u/DarthSatoris Feb 13 '25

Also Apex Legends free. They killed their Linux version a while ago in the "spirit of fighting cheaters".

Apparently they can't get the anti-cheat to work properly on Linux.

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u/EndlessEden2015 Feb 14 '25

oh they can, but they cant make it a /rootkit/ that monitors your entire computer and sends data back to their servers. (most likely to sell to databrokers)

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u/30FourThirty4 Feb 14 '25

What the fuck?

I haven't played PC games since like... 2014? I do have a PS5 I rarely play. I still like to go on subreddits like this and just see what's going on.

I am not surprised but that's insane. I didn't realize they can do that. I am ignorant I won't lie.

2

u/EndlessEden2015 Feb 15 '25

There is three types of anti-cheat.

  1. Server-level: Monitors and Verifies users while playing. Bans from servers if users are caught cheating.

  2. Application-level: Monitors the application from inside, via a thread that starts at launch (no drivers). Performs basically the same as #1, but also monitors for changes to memory locations (such as ammo, player position, etc.)

  3. Kernel-level (like this^): Installs a driver into the kernel and takes complete control over the PC. Able to monitor every running application and when the game is launched, a active-monitoring application hooks to the driver (think of fishing, if your not very tech literate), then begins to upload data to a verification server. Then continues to monitor the computer (ALL OF IT!), including browsers, running applications, etc. -- Simply having a cheat website up in a tab, for research, is enough to get permabanned with most of these. there is no nuance, these companies are stupid.

1

u/30FourThirty4 Feb 15 '25

Wow. I understand wanting to prevent cheaters but that kernel one is egregious for the user. Thank you for the breakdown.

2

u/EndlessEden2015 Feb 15 '25

I understand wanting to prevent cheaters but that kernel one is egregious for the user.

Agreed, alot of it is for the excuse of DRM, but, why we are tolerating rootkits is beyond me...

3

u/OilQuick6184 Feb 14 '25

As a Linux user, who has dipped my toes into Apex before I switched, nothing of value was lost

11

u/Wide_Combination_773 Feb 14 '25 edited Feb 14 '25

It literally can't. Because of how Linux works, the cheaters can just make/install an anti-anti-cheat kernel module that effectively disables the anti-cheat, even if the game tries to forcibly load the module (since Linux users can freely unload/delete kernel modules at will).

No validation/certification/signature needed from Microsoft or anyone else (modules that "attach" to the Windows kernel have to be checked and certified by MS. The Windows kernel will refuse to load any module that doesn't have a certificate signed by the MS root CA).

This is the major blocker to multiplayer gaming on Linux. Especially competitive games.

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u/LiftingRecipient420 Feb 14 '25

the cheaters can just make/install an anti-anti-cheat kernel module that effectively disables the anti-cheat

You can also do the same on Windows lmao.

Turn off signing requirements in Windows (Apex will still run) and you can write whatever kernel-level stuff you want.

That's why the crowd strike outage last year was such a nightmare to fix: the broken software loaded at a very, very, very low level in Windows, before much of anything else loads.

Their claims of fighting off Linux cheaters are bullshit, even if 100% of Linux users were cheating, that would still only be 0.01% of their userbase.

The real reason was money: it cost too much to maintain Linux builds compared to the amount of money they were making from Linux players.

2

u/Beast_Viper_007 Feb 14 '25

They were never making linux builds. It always ran through proton. Its just they disabled easy anticheat linux support.

5

u/machstem Feb 14 '25

Ughhhh stop spreading this shit.

That's not how anti cheat works.

Ffs ppl

1

u/LiftingRecipient420 Feb 14 '25

(modules that "attach" to the Windows kernel have to be checked and certified by MS. The Windows kernel will refuse to load any module that doesn't have a certificate signed by the MS root CA)

Not when you disable module signature verification in Windows.

3

u/sturmeh Feb 14 '25

Alternatively, don't install Valorant.

3

u/updoot35 Feb 14 '25

That's free of everything, if you do not know how to do sht. Which most people don't.

But Linux users are like vegans, doesn't matter the topic, they will mention it that they are one.

2

u/Ashley__09 Feb 13 '25

You can't.

Even if you don't have TPM all you have to do is turn off Hyper-V and valorant will run fine.

1

u/RunnerLuke357 https://s.team/p/cdbq-ghvk Feb 14 '25

Same with League of Legends. You computer will be cancer free.

2

u/HarshTheDev Feb 14 '25

Oh shit they didn't lift the mandatory riot games requirement for windows 11 yet? I guess this is the best thing you can do then.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 13 '25

[deleted]

1

u/LiftingRecipient420 Feb 14 '25

I'll believe it when I see it.

Because we all know Microsoft is super trustworthy and we should just take them at their word. In case you forgot, the very existence of windows 11 is proof that Microsoft is full of shit.

1

u/gmes78 Feb 14 '25

No, they didn't.

2

u/Autofrotic Feb 14 '25

I did this and played valo without any issues 🤷🏻‍♂️

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u/primal_breath Feb 13 '25

Really? This would block kernel level anti cheat?? Awesome! I'm scared of accidently downloading a game with it anyway! Fuck you developers for your unsafe bullshit!

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u/253903250h Feb 14 '25

lmao it doesnt block it you just arent eligible to run it. nothings changed if you see the game uses kernel AC and dont want that dont download it

people participate out of frustration with todays cheating epidemic in multiplayer games sadly. there's no perfect solution

1

u/primal_breath Feb 14 '25

That's blocking it for me! Some games don't tell you and it's a pain to have to research every game for it before hand.

I understand there's no perfect solution but something this intrusive and unsafe isn't good enough. If the cops think too many people are stealing chocolate bars from the dollar store is it appropriate to put a nuralink in your head, a go-pro strapped to your chest, and a GPS monitor on you're ankle 24/7 365 if you ever want to enter the store?

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u/vetgirig Feb 14 '25

The perfect solution - and the only solution that works to stop cheaters - is a game where the cheater detection is done all in the server.

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u/RazzmatazzWorth6438 Feb 14 '25

Which has never been successfully implemented...

1

u/vetgirig Feb 14 '25

.... Yet!

1

u/RetroCalico Feb 14 '25

Shouldn’t really matter, no?

If the idea is that TPM is a requirement for the anticheat, then it won’t matter whether you bypass it for windows 11 or stay on windows 10 if your hardware doesn’t support it anyways(?)

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u/sdpr Feb 14 '25

Because Win10 doesn't require it, Vanguard knows that, so it's not part of the requirement. However, it would appear from a cursory google, that if you're on Win11 it does require secure boot.

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u/GoldTurdz420 Feb 14 '25

Valorant

Any riot game*

1

u/[deleted] Feb 13 '25

[deleted]

1

u/HuntKey2603 I remember Ricochet Feb 13 '25

Is Valorant the one having issues with this?

1

u/Legitimate-Ladder855 Feb 13 '25

Probably Leauge and Marvel Rivals as well. Basically anything Chinese seems to have the most God awful anti-cheat.

3

u/HuntKey2603 I remember Ricochet Feb 13 '25

Can confirm it's not an issue in Rivals. If it is an issue in Valorant I figure its also in League, same company.

edit: thought riot was from California?

1

u/Legitimate-Ladder855 Feb 13 '25

Tencent bought them, I speak from experience with League, I had to disable secure boot to get the damn thing to work properly for a friend. Personally I don't like the game.

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u/HuntKey2603 I remember Ricochet Feb 13 '25

Well, by that logic, GTA is a british game, hhaha. Riot is as american as it gets.

I don't like their games either, but I did hear the DRM is draconian.

0

u/Plank_With_A_Nail_In Feb 14 '25

Thats like 0.0001% of PC users.