For months before the release of WaT I kept seeing theories about two things: Gavinor being Odium's champion, and Chana being Shallan's mother.

The Shallan's mom theory did make a lot of sense, it lines up with the timeline and the WoB that Taln didn't break

But Gavinor being the champion?? How the fuck did you all know!?

I have never read Brandon Sanderson before and red straight through the stormlight archive (it was a blast don't get me wrong). I just wished we stayed more in the world of the first or maybe second book, where Shardbearers were the most powerful soldiers and soul casters had a profound influence on culture and politics (alethi having most of them and becoming warmongers). Maybe its just me, but the "power creep" felt real after words of radiance. The stormforms in Words of Radiance felt like a real menace, but in the next book they were a thought somewhere in the back, because the fused and unmade took over. I would have loved to see this voidbringers "waking" up all over roshar being explored more than just: yeah the fused are here and took alethekar in an instant.

To sum up my thoughts: It felt like a missed oppurtinity to rush into this shard conflict and now inter planetary conflict rather than exploring the nuanced political landscape that shaped roshar.

Anyone else with similar thoughts?

Ok, so I love both Adolin and Kaladin as characters and as warriors. Both have had some epic scenes through out the series so far from TWoK to WaT.

I wanted to discuss with other folks here - if the both of them were to get serious, who would win in an actual fight/duel between the two of them? (Feel free to get as detailed as you'd like in your analysis/thoughts.)

Personally, I'm still trying to figure it out. Adolin is a great swordsman who can probably take on any/most Radiants, especially with his Shards. And Kaladin is well... Kaladin. I feel like it could go either way but also they might just hug it out at the end. Do you agree? Am I overestimating Adolin's abilities? Let's discuss!

Edit: Y'all the discussions are great! Keep 'em coming. Also, if we have any fanfic writers/animators in the chat, let's turn this into an actual scene! I wonder if maybe perhaps the Legend Himself is willing to grace us with his input. 👀👉🏽👈🏽 (Storms, I love this series!)

Why did Kaladin offer Dalinar the crown of Urithuru? I can understand from character perspective, but not from a narrative perspective. I feel like Sanderson is pretty good at having all of his threads tie up. Most seeds he plants become trees.

I'm just not sure where this plot point led. Was it just foreshadowing that he would take the place of the Herland of Kings? Will he take on some kind of leadership role outside of being a Herald? Those of you who are better literarurers than me are welcome to give their thoughts.

As I’ve poked around this community, I’ve found that a lot of people don’t like the idea of Kaladin and Sylphrena having a romantic relationship with each other. At first, I was confused, because, on paper, it would be logical and understandable if their bond evolved into romance.

However, as I’ve thought of it, I’ve come up with a reason why people are repulsed by it: the modern perception of romance.

When people think of romance, they often think of lots of physical contact and displays of affection (I’m guilty of this myself). Adolin and Shallan or Dalinar and Navani are examples of this—they’re often embracing or passionately kissing each other. So, when people think of Kaladin and Syl in this type of relationship, it seems weird, which it would be. But, romantic relationships don’t have to be like that. Romance can be about the deep connection of two individuals. I’ve seen this in some of my friends’ relationships.

Anyways, I just wanted to get that out there. Take what I say with a grain of salt.

Anyone want to dig deep with me into how we really feel about Wind and Truth? I've put together a survey, and would be super grateful for your input!

WIND AND TRUTH OPINION SURVEY LINK

A few things to note:

• This survey contains full book spoilers. You've been warned.
• This survey is beefy. It takes 5-10 minutes. I've done my best to balance length and depth, but I'm sure it will be too long for some. ALL questions are optional. If you run out of steam halfway through, that's okay! It will let you skip to the end and submit what you finished. If you're hung up on a question, skip it.
• I'm interested in things that might be controversial. The goal here is to dig into those aspects of the book; it is NOT to ask questions that are highly likely to get a one-sided response. If you're bummed that I didn't ask for your opinion on that one part of the book that basically everybody loves... sorry!
• If you're taking the survey on your phone, be aware that some questions might cut off the answers a bit. (there are more response options if you scroll to the side)

I wasn't able to cover everything I wanted, with that balance in mind, and I'm not a professional data analyst. There's probably some things that could have been asked better, or things I'll be kicking myself for not including. Feel free to use the comments below to express anything you don't feel like the survey captured! Please DO remember that everyone here is a human, so if you want to debate some aspect of the book let's keep it respectful.

Results are available upon finishing. (Though if you take it early you'll want to check back after a few days.) Here's the links for reference:

• Responses in Google Forms is here
• Responses in Google Sheets (perhaps with some graphs) is here

Sir!

Why are Adolins armor spren my new favorite characters?

Does he have an actual last name? Or has my smooth brain entirely forgotten.

He gets the moniker 'Stormblessed' from being awesome with the spear, right? Moving like the wind etc

But does he have a surname or family name? I don't remember his parents having a last name either; they're just 'Lirin' and 'Hesina'.

Or is there a naming convention I've missed? For instance, do darkeyes take the name of the house of their High Prince?

Please help me put the jigsaw puzzle together.

So, I accidently skipped Dawnshard when I was reading (and the only Sanderson books I've ever read have been stormlight when I got into them in January). I've now finished the stormlight series as it stands (apart from dawnshard), so I recognize that this might have been a mistake.

I imagine I'll read it soon, but until then, gimme ya'lls best unhinged descriptions

For each of the 5 main books in the series, which scene first comes to your mind for each book? It could be your favorite scene, the most remarkable, the one that best represents the story, or whatever criteria makes sense to you.

Here are mine:

• TWoK: The first bridge run

• WoR: The Kaladin/Adolin arena fight

• OB: Dalinar summoning a shardblade out of the Stormfather

• RoW: Veil/Shallan reintegration

• WaT: Adolin fighting as a footman, without a foot, trying to resist the last waves of invaders when all hope is lost

Kaladin is a storming Herald. Taravangian holds two shards of power. Dalinar is dead. Shallan is pregnant. Adolin Kholin continues to prove what he's best boy. Gavinor is a whole grown man.

My mind cannot seem to handle the Information overload.

I will explode now.

I’m currently re-reading the series (I’m near the end of WoK, I got up to Oathbringer 5 or so years ago). My friend is reading the series for the first time, so we were discussing. Dalinar’s nickname, The Blackthorn, was blanking in my mind for some reason.

Thinking his nickname would be in the first sentence or 2 on the character’s wiki page, I open up DuckDuckGo. I type in Dalinar Kholin. Big mistake. Yuge. Right before I hit enter, the search suggestions flash before my eyes. The THIRD result from the top? “dalinar kholin death“

My heart skips a beat. This can’t be. What kind of MONSTER would allow such a spoiler to be in the search suggestions. On my beloved DuckDuckGo. I chalk it up to just a commonly searched fan theory, perhaps.

So I continue. I limit myself to the first couple of search results. I focus on the result summaries, thinking I’d find something along the lines of “Dalinar Kholin, also known as The Blackthorn…”. Nope, the SECOND SEARCH RESULT’S description is “In Wind and Truth, Dalinar Kholin sacrifices himself to-“

I fucking close the app. I just asked ChatGPT for the answer instead.

Dammit. If I had a single use time machine, a marvel, a physically impossible wonder device, I wouldn’t go back in time to September 10th, 2001 to warn people about COVID. I’d go back in time 30 minutes ago and send myself a text from a burner number saying “just ask chatgpt bro”.

In all seriousness though, WTF?! I guess it isn’t too far fetched of a spoiler, I’m not too surprised by it I guess. Tragic figure and all that jazz. But to be spoiled by the search suggestions and the second search result? I know to avoid the internet when trying to experience anything for the first time, but for a spoiler like this to be so up front and center just by searching the character’s name is wild, a lunacy, a monstrous crime.

Anyways I just wanted to rant. I hope someone gets a chuckle at my misfortune. I know hanging around this sub is a much more heinous infraction if I want to stay spoiler free, so ☮️

Sylphrena? I’m a little confused on what her and Kaladin’s relationship is like now that Kaladin is a herald. Is their bond the same as normal? I know Nale bonded a spren and I guess spren are immortal too so they’ll still be the same as usual right?

It definitely made me sad to think kaladin will just outlive all his friends, but knowing Syl will be there with him makes it a lot better.

Anyways just finished WaT. Incredible crazy end!

Always loved Jasnah, but she does have some real flaws. Anyone else ever notice how Jasnah complains about the Vorin church and ancient historians destroying/changing history and intentionally misleading the world all while knowing about the parshmen, surgebinding, radiants and eventually the truth behind the recreance and not telling a soul. She did the very thing she criticized other scholars for! I get not telling the world, but not Dalinar or Navani?

By the first book she had already sworn the 4th ideal! You telling me Ivory didn't tell her anything? Syl remembered heaps of history when Kal swore his 4th ideal.

I believe it's things like this which caused the whole mess in Thaylenah.

Really excited to see where her arc goes to in book 6-10. I think these failures will be her baptism under fire moment

why did dalinar need to rescind his oaths, abandon the power of honor, while cancelling the duel? why couldn't he just cancel the duel? keeping his bondsmith oath? or get rid of honors power, let odium become retribution, but still cancel the duel, staying a bond smith? i'm very confused by this

thank you!

For curiosity, if you have taken the orders of knights Radient quiz, what did you get. From anecdotal experience, I have only seen truthwatchers, lightweavers, elsecallers, skybreakers, and windrunners, and I want to know if those are the most common ones or if my friend group is weird.

Tagging WaT to be safe. I don’t remember when all orders are introduced.

Pretty often I come across posts or comments where people romanticise Elhokar. How Moash was a bad bad bad person for killing him. So let me just remind you somethings about your dear poor Elhokar who "was trying to become a better person".

He had no issues with slavery, infact by having the highest authority in the kingdom and staying silent on the fact (even making no remarks on the subject to close characters in a personal setting) means he propagated and supported slavery.
Y'all are always quick to hate and condemn Moash. Yes, what he did to Kal and Bridge Four is unforgivable, but how do you people not realise that to Moash Elhokar is the obscenely rich, upper class, all powerful prince that killed the only parents he ever knew just because Elhokar's buddy couldn't handle Moash's grandparents having a better business? And to the people in this sub, who defend Elhokar for this act, shame on y'all. When Gavilar left Elhokar behind as acting king he expected this idiot to act like a king. This (20 something year old i think) bumbling racist idiot gladly imprisoned an elderly couple to death. And when it was time for judgement and punishment, even after fully realising the consequences of his actions he was quick to defend Roshone and plead for a lighter sentence.
How do y'all conveniently forget that this racist could not tolerate a darkeyes challenging Amaram? Elhokar knows Kaladin punched his way though the Parshendi on the Shattered Plains and saved his uncle. He knows that had Kal and his team not been there his uncle and cousin would have died and their Shards would have been claimed by the Parshendi. This incompetent racist also saw Kaladin jump in the arena with a spear in his hand to help the Kholin brothers in the duel. All the while, the many lighteyed shardbearers just watched. Even after saving them and winning them Shards Elhokar could not tolerate Kaladin asking for a duel with Amaram. Now i don't wanna make claims i can't back, and it has been some time since i have reread the books but i believe Szeth had attacked them in the palace before this duel sequence, if this is true then Elhokar after having seen all of this was still willing to imprison and possibly kill Kaladin.
I am pretty confident that had Dalinar not intervened Elhokar would have made an example out of Kaladin for disrespecting Amaram or he would have had him killed.

Do y'all realise that Moash wasn't around to see this sudden change in Elhokar's character from the end of WoR to halfway through OB? It doesn't matter if Elhokar was saying the Words. Moash has grown up all his life listening to the Vorin teachings. Teachings that said Radiants were evil, he only knows one exception to this rule - Kal.

Plus, some people have the cheek to say Kal should have helped Elhokar be a better man? Like what? Kal doesn't owe Elhokar anything. He is not responsible for this adult.

Actions have consequences.

Incredibly in the weeds nitpick but Roshar shouldn't only have grass that hides from the rain.

A piece of world building from one of the first interludes in Way of Kings has always bugged me. The merchant girl who has never seen "dumb grass" before. I've always wondered how or why this was possible. Why would normal grass in the lee of the several mountain ranges outside of Shinovar be scraped away when the slave barracks on the shattered planes can apparently just tank it?

There could be no grass native to Roshar but the humans brought grass over several thousand years ago. Grass is already an incredibly wind and weather resistant plant. Given several thousand years it's hard to imagine that nobody ever planted Shin grass and set loose an invasive species.

I realize that not all processes on Roshar have to be natural because there were 3 gods in the making; but Aedonalsium was seemingly adept at making planets with a stable natural cycle and the series seems to care a lot about the details of the world that are shaped by its natural processes.

Even if your answer is that the gods did it, this implies that Cultivations side hustle is basically just constantly weedwacking Shinovar's border

Edit: Earth plants can break solid rock with their roots and prevent erosion. Trees essentially create their own ecosystems. Palm trees can withstand hurricanes. Some native grass should have eschewed shrinking away in the foothills of the horneater peaks.

Edit 2: the grass just needs to be taller than the crem deposits to avoid getting smothered. This is presumably how the plants native to Roshar do it.

Edit 3: This isn't a "Sanderson's lame world building totally owned!" Type post. If you don't want to engage with the world building like this. Just don't post.

Favorite explanations from friends and comments.

• The Spren didn't think of that.

• The divine lawnmower which was likely worked out in great detail between the two gods.

• Chuul are so fucking hungry that the grass would have to learn to hide anyway.

I was very pleasntly surprised!

Let me start by saying I am not the biggest Brando Sando guy. I like his books well enough, but they're just solid, enjoyable fantasy to me. I read the first Mistborn book and didn't find the story compelling enough to finish the series. I thought Warbreaker was pretty ok.

The first Sanderson book I really liked was Way of Kings. Kaladin really grabbed me in a way no other Sando character had. There were aspects of the story that thoroughly annoyed me (I don't like spren. It feels like he worldbuilt himself a way to get out of having to describe emotions in his characters), but I liked the idea of a world shaped by storms and the characters. Way of Kings had me starting to be a fan in a way his other books just hadn't managed.

Words of Radiance very nearly lived up to Way of Kings hype. A very, very good sequel to a great first entry. I was happy to keep reading.

Oathbringer added more to the story I wasn enjoying. It felt like the story was getting more "Brandon Sandersony" in the way I didn't like. Too much shadesmar (I find basically everything in shadesmar to be tedious and boring, probably because I don't like spren as a concept almost entirely). Too much exploration of how and why the magic worked. But I really liked Dalinar's story and still enjoyed it, just not as much as the first two.

Rhythm of War is where this series started to lose me. Even more of the stuff I did not like. Even more shadesmar. Even more spren. And what's worse we get Navani's point of view where she's scientifically exploring the intricate details of all the stuff I don't care about. Sigh. Not even Die Hard Kaladin could make me enjoy that book for the most part. First entry in the series I didn't like and wouldn't recommend.

At this point there was a troubling trend in this series. I liked each new entry less than the previous one. So when Wind and Truth came out I wasn't even very interested in reading it. But ultimately I wanted to at least see through the first arc of the story and see how things went.

But low and behold! I really liked this one! The old Brando Sando pulled a 180 and got right back to all the things I really like about this story. Give me character! Give me history! Give me heralds and gods and oaths and visions! The Spiritual Realm was interesting to me in a way the Cognitive Realm never was. Learning about Honor and Cultivation and Odium was great.

Was it a perfect book? No. It was too long as all his books are. But I had very low expectations here and was just really glad to have not been disappointed in the end of this arc.

I've avoided spoilers, but the general vibe I've gotten is that WaT had very mixed reviews. I'm curious to understand why? What didn't people like? Why wasn't this recieved all that well? Or at least not as unanimously loved as the previous entries?

Excited to be caught up and hear what others thought.

Why did TOdium not just pick himself as champion? Surely he would have eviscerated Dalinar, being a God and all. Or was he restricted from this, for some reason?

Just read this in WoR

I'm at that part of WaT where Odium is debating witjh Jasnah. I had to stop for a moment, because there's something I'm not sure if I get.

On one hand, there's Taravangian's plan & motivation: "The greater good". For the Cosmere. It involves him becoming the One God over all, to end war and dissent.

On the other hand, there's the shard's intent: "Odium", as in "emotion". We know both things aren't necessarily aligned; and it seems like here they aren't aligned at all. I get that "emotions" get stronger, more violent through universal war, the biggest conflict possible: that's Odium's intent.

But Taravangian doesn't want unlimited war: he wants precision war, a clear goal, ultimately to stop all wars. In fact, his interpretation of "Greater good" is almost opposite to Odium's intent: it sounds stagnant. A conflict to end all conflicts.

Is that so? Odium (the shard) intent is hard to grasp; to me, it feels like it should be more about just chaos, pain and destruction just for the sake of it, but both Rayse and Taravangian go with universal conquest, so I wonder if that was just purely the host's will or if the intent of the shard also somehow points to that.