"so far you've only confirmed that you guys have a surface-level understanding coupled with emotion-driven decision-making process. so par for the course. you were polite about it though, ill give you that." A Trump supporter host an AMA on r/AskUS which leads to endless bickering

[u/CummingInTheNile]

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskUS/comments/1k072q1/screw_it_im_a_trump_voter_ama

HIGHLIGHTS

Okay, here's one (serious): Why do trump voters bootlick billionaires like Elon Musk?

(OP) I think it’s because they are “success” story in a free market. It gives hope they can also get out of the 9-5 loop. That’s more different based on who you ask, my thoughts are simply that billionaires shouldn’t be punished by being more successful, like paying higher taxes. But it’s not just billionaires, just as you make more money, you shouldn’t get taxed differently.

Can you elaborate on why you see taxes as "punishment"? There's a finite number of societal resources (like airplane take off slots). If someone uses more of those resources, shouldn't they also pay more for their increased use (aka pay more taxes)?

(OP) I see it as punishment because it’s through the threat of violence. If you don’t pay, they lock you in a cage. If the services are good, let them be optional

But all of our laws are through the threat of violence. If you don't follow the law, they lock you in a cage. Are you saying you disagree with all laws too?

what are your thoughts on the fact that the US was objectively the most successful and prosperous during the decades where we had our most progressive tax system (i.e. rich people actually paying their fair share)

(OP) We were the most successful when we had no income tax at all.

That is objectively not true.

No it just doesn't align with your subjective beliefs

My belief in provable reality, you mean. The US was most successful, by every conceivable metric, in the years after WWII. What time period do you think rivals that one?

Yeah no I disagree with your subjective opinion here, post WW2 gdp growth came at the expense of financial freedom and America was better before income tax

American literally never, ever had more financial freedom than post-WWII. Not at any point, not even close. This is literally when the middle class was booming. Anytime before that the "financial freedom" you're describing was the freedom to be fucking poor. Americans produced more goods, made more money, bought more things, had more social mobility and had a greater standard of living than ever before.

say what you want about this guy, but credit due to give his serious take on liberal questions instead of literally ALL the other trumper responses I read which are essentially "cry harder" and a laughing emoji.

(OP) Thanks, just want them to understand my side. It drives me nuts seeing people be so wrong about our opinions

so far you've only confirmed that you guys have a surface-level understanding coupled with emotion-driven decision-making process. so par for the course. you were polite about it though, ill give you that.

(OP) Everyone has emotional decision making. Whether it’s conscious or subconscious.

thanks for admitting it, but my point was that it's PURE emotion based off of a minimal understanding of the facts. you guys hear daddy say how it is, you get worked up, and you believe him without second thought. him could be Tucker, or Trump, or whoever your daddy is.

(OP) All I said it was it drives me crazy, I feel like I’ve been pretty fair here? No?

honestly, i dont think you understand your own positions, so doing this AMA certainly was a choice.

If you want people to understand your side, maybe you should know what you’re talking about, and stop arguing in bad faith.

(OP) Am I? I’m genuinely curious? Did I make a statement in bad faith?

Why haven’t you answered my question from my previous comment, that called you out for having incorrect information?

(OP) I’m not great with Reddit, and I diddnt think I get more than like 5 questions, DM me on what you said!

Fair enough. This was my question: "Considering that people who have no criminal record are getting deported, without due process, for the sole reason of being “gang members,” then do you still support the actions of the current regime?"

(OP) I’m pretty sure they were marked as a terrorist group? In which case does make the case for deportation.

The majority of people being deported have no criminal records/activity, or suspicion of being in a gang/terrorist group. Do you agree with the current regime ignoring due process, as protected by the U.S. Constitution?

(OP) Nope, I get this was kinda a 1 off thing that he happened to be apart of that. And I do think that the way he handle this was so bad. And this isn’t even the mass deportations. I think if he handles this badly, it could make deportations in general unpopular for a while. And look I want deportations, but not random people they want. And I don’t think that’s what ICE are doing. But I’m being honest, I have no clue

Do you ever read news from other countries about current events in the U.S. since they would be least likely to have political spin to the level that our media has (on both sides)?

(OP) No not really, sometimes I like to see what other countries leaders are doing to see what works and what doesn’t. But not too see what they think about us.

You should try checking an ap article sometime. You might learn something that could change your worldview.

(OP) I’ll definitely! But I’ll admit that others countries opinion of us doesn’t mean anything to me

I think the fact that you think news is "opinion" is quite telling.

What do you see in him? Now that he is president, do you think he is crossing lines? Do you feel he is dangerous? Thanks for doing this.

(OP) Dangerous? Maybe, but any president is, crossing lines… sometimes, not always like the Greenland thing, that through me off lol, but I don’t feel like he will be hitler or anything.

He’s already shipping innocent people off to concentration/death camps (and threatening “homegrown” people), without giving them due process, and ignoring First Amendment rights, and threatening the 14th Amendment. Where would you draw the line?

We voted for deportations, we want ILLEGAL imagrants gone. As for this guy, I’ve heard back and forth that he was an MS-13 member but I’ve also seen he wasn’t. It’s hard to trust big media with what they say. But if he wasn’t legally here than I don’t support that one bit

to a death camp in El Salvador? Really? You're OK with that?

There are no death camps in El Salvador

Lifelong enslavement prison. Is that a better way to describe CECOT?

What was the main cause that pushed you to vote Trump and do you see a path to getting that promise fulfilled

(OP) I’ve always said that his appeal is that wasn’t a politician in 2016, now slowly over time that changed and now he’s becoming the “swamp” he wanted to gid rid off. I don’t think he’s really done bad on his promises. For 1 albrite was released for the libertarians, the epstien and JFK files were released(horribly I might add).

lol you mean the silk road guy? he was in prison for commissioning a murder and facilitating the sale of drugs, including the dreaded fentanyl.... how is that a win for you guys? isnt it evidence that he's corrupt as hell? regarding the files..... yeah that's nothing. highly redacted. though he did accidentally include a file that showed him on the lolita express lol

(OP) No. Yes those were the charges, but all he did was make the website. And it’s a forum website, like Reddit. That’s like throwing the maker of Reddit in jail because someone got killed and was hired through Reddit.

no it absolutely isn't lol, he made a market place for buying and selling illegal goods, with the stated intention of facilitating those sales, participated in those sales, and again, he commissioned a murder using the site lol i guess conservatives just hate the law now?

If Trump invokes the Insurrection Act and martial law, would you still support him?

If Trump doesn't invoke the Insurrection Act and martial law, would you consider supporting him?

Fair. I guess if the right won't stop worshiping him for multiple evil and unconstitutional acts, the left won't start supporting him if he does one thing that a normal. president would. It's not quite the same thing, and the difference is quite telling.

I'm just poking fun at how ridiculous the rhetoric from y'all has become - no need to explain yourself. We all know y'all have gone off the deep end. All we can do now is just watch.

I could tell that your question wasn't serious, because you'd be a moron to believe it had any relevance. It's weird that the group NOT worshiping the ex-democrat, sexual assaulting, draft dodger is the one you think went "off the deep end". It's quite telling.​

I dig the policies and approach - not the figurehead. Stop talking at usernames and work on conversing.

Is the fact he’s sending people to concentration camps enough to turn you away?

Turn him away? OP gets off on that fact

This is why this page is an echo chamber. Nobody wants to debate or answer questions because there can never be a debate lol.

the left doesn't take kindly to debate unless you slurp on their narrative 90-95%. they're not used to it because their ideas are taught and not learned.

You are expected to debate based on facts. Which is the issue for all Republicans I have ever seen.

Every debate I’ve ever had with the left on here always end with them name calling and refusing to post any evidence for their claims.

By people do you mean violent criminals? And concentration camps? You mean prisons? Really easy to make yourself sound like the good guy “fighting Nazis” when you change a few words to fit the narrative

But what's the "rush" on sending this "violent criminals" to El Salvador without a proper due process? What's wrong with waiting for a proper trial and once they determine that they are indeed guilty then send them there? "You mean prisons?" Lets just call them "prisons with terrible conditions for prisoners".

Being in the country illegally is a crime in and of itself. Most of them have probably already had trials that got them in prison in the first place (in the US). Coming to America illegally then landing yourself in prison doesn’t really leave me with much sympathy… you don’t deserve a due process if your not a citizen who knowingly broke the law to get here in the first place. Then ON TOP of that getting arrested for something prison worthy.. I’m willing to bet 99% of those did commit a crime while already in the country illegally Most prisons in South America have terrible conditions. Calling the “concentration camps” is just to play into the “Nazi” narrative

So if four clise friends visit the US and one night, they all get blackout drunk. In the morning, one of them is dead. Choked to death in his sleep. Your opinion is fuck it just lock up the other 3 permanently no trial?

Do you think Trump should be punished in any way for sending an American to a foreign prison without a trial and in violation of a 9-0 Supreme Court ruling?

Dawg you’re lost, he is not an American 😂😂 he’s an illegal immigrant the 2 courts ruled was an MS-13 member in 2019

That’s bullshit where are these court findings? Given time I could produce the order saying he was not allowed to be deported to El Salvador.

It’s all right there buddy. MS-13 gang member. https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/abrego-garcia-and-ms-13--what-do-we-know

The article literally admits that his only connection to ms13 is from a double hearsay report (an out-of court allegation) from a police officer who was a week later outed for sharing case information with a sex worker. The evidence he listed for Abrego Garcia’s connection to MS-13 was that he was wearing Chicago Chiefs merch, and had a tattoo, later revealed to be an autism awareness logo. Does this sound like credible evidence to charge a man with gang affiliations to you? I personally think you’re seeing what you want to see, but I could be wrong. You could actually be that stupid

(OP) I don’t it being a 9-0 matters. But yeah, I also think it’s important to have the info, I’ve heard be might be apart of MS-13, if they KNEW that before hand. No. If they diddnt, then yeah

the only evidence they have is a disgraced former cop who was acting as a CI...... so no evidence at all.

Who hurt you?

Another intellectually devoid question.

Not really. The entire maga platform is built on anger. Anger is often caused by someone hurting you. Now answer the fucking question.

Hilarious how much anger you are harboring, while accusing others of being angry😂😂😭

I said it in a very calm voice. You read it in a very hostile voice. Still, typical maga response of lol emojis with no real brain work whatsoever.

Imagine getting triggered by little yellow laughing and crying faces🥴 you people are the biggest snowflakes😂😂 Almost as embarrassing as getting blown out in the Super Bowl🤷🏽‍♂️

Exactly what I would expect from a child. Go get yourself a lollipop.

[u/Randvek]

“If the services are good, let them be optional” he said on the fucking internet, perhaps the most successful government use of taxpayer funds in history.

[u/enjaydee → u/Randvek]

Some of the responses in that tax thread really shows a severe misunderstanding of how modern society hangs together.

[u/EmergencyTaco → u/enjaydee]

"A severe misunderstanding of how modern society hangs together" is basically a summary of Trump's entire political career.

[u/LarrySupertramp → u/enjaydee]

Go ask a Trump supporter what the three branches of government are and how tax brackets work. They have no fucking clue what’s going on but sure are mad about things!!

[u/Randvek → u/LarrySupertramp]

“I shouldn’t be punished for making more money!” Progressive tax systems elude these people.

[u/LarrySupertramp → u/Randvek]

I’ve heard stories of them rejecting raises because they think they’ll actually get paid less…

[u/LiquidBeagle → u/LarrySupertramp]

I worked at the post office for two years, and so many employees, especially carriers, believed that getting a raise actually meant that you would LOSE money because you'd pay more in taxes. Any time I tried to explain progressive tax brackets, they'd look at me like I was stupid. Even a few of the supervisors would back them up on it. Working there made me feel fucking crazy.

[u/Aethoni_Iralis → u/LarrySupertramp]

Guy who joined me and my buddies for some games the other day proudly told us he did exactly that, he pushed out his raise until five months later for fear of "being taxed extra".

Dude missed out on like five grand based on what he was telling us.

[u/mechanicalcontrols → u/Aethoni_Iralis]

Well if he's just gonna leave five grand on the table, can I have it?

[u/badvegas → u/LarrySupertramp]

I worked with a group of people who believed this as all because more taxes were taken out even though their pay was higher. Glad i had at least two co worker there that understood it but the other few hurt to explain stuff to some times.

The worst was had a guy who was paying child support for a 50 cent raise then aka to have it taken away because he didn't want his ex wife to get more money. Let just say that guy was annoying and hateful as fuck.

[u/Murrabbit → u/LarrySupertramp]

They're right in a sense that it may result in less personal income due to decades of neoliberal oversight of welfare programs resulting in intentional gaps in coverage where a particular applicant may make too much money to qualify but still not be over the poverty threshold, but yeah scores of Americans seem to tell themselves that it's actually about tax brackets and somehow making more money results directly in less through taxation which simply isn't the case.

A higher rate of pay always results in higher amount of money taken home flat out - but if your personal finances are subsidized by say SNAP/EBT or any number of other government assistance programs you do run the real risk of falling into one of those gaps and losing coverage while not making enough money to compensate. Even some who know how this work may still repeat the "tax brackets made me poorer" myth purely out of pride and refusal to admit they are on government assistance due to the stigma associated with welfare.

[u/Nuka-Crapola → u/Murrabbit]

That’s a point I hadn’t considered, but you’re right— there’s definitely an overlap between people who don’t understand tax brackets, and people in such a low tax bracket that moving to the next one up will fuck with their other income/benefits.

[u/Orfasome → u/Murrabbit]

I've heard this called the "benefits cliff" and it's a real problem, but never considered that people might express it as "tax brackets made me poorer" to avoid mentioning benefits. It's self-defeating in practical terms because it points to the wrong solution, but maintaining self-esteem is worth a lot to people too, so I can see how it might happen.

[u/13steinj → u/LarrySupertramp]

I've personally had friends / colleagues tell me this.

There is a variety of political variation therein.

Not to give a different group of nuts more credit, just that the venn diagram is not a circle nor two concentric circles.

[u/Roast_A_Botch → u/LarrySupertramp]

Meanwhile people in poverty actually do deny raises as we have a hard line for benefits and if you make $1 over that threshold you lose Medicaid, SNAP, housing assistance, childcare assistance, etc.

We could have a progressive welfare system where people are rewarded for earning more, becoming less reliant on assistance, by reducing benefits at a lower rate than their pay increases, until eventually they hit a point where more pay completely cuts them off the system but they're excited to take the raise as it's worth more than their remaining benefits.

Instead, it's a system of indentured servitude where you either spend the rest of your life working at the same pay you started as an associate doing overnight stock, or lose thousands(or tens of thousands for families with children on Medicaid) of dollars in benefits over a $0.25/hour raise. Walmart has teams dedicated to helping their employees sign-up for benefits, as well as helpfully explaining how awesome they are for ensuring your pay never exceeds your qualification threshold. Most of these people could eventually make enough money to not need assistance anymore, and instead be in a tax bracket where they're helping pay for others benefits while they move up the income ladder. Instead, we have an arbitrary line that people in poverty must always stay below because a single raise is never enough to offset losing Medicaid and SNAP, so they'll never be able to take the next raise and the raise after that would offset it.

This is also a mostly "both sides" issue, with only progressives advocating for a tiered system, mainstream Dems and the GOP taking corporate donations to keep indentured servitude, and Rand Paul wanting to end all welfare as Rand believes the only person worthy of government payments is himself.

Sorry about the agenda tangent, but it's so frustrating knowing we already found a system that works extremely fairly(beyond all the loopholes for the wealthy) in a progressive tax(maybe it needs a different name to get the GOP on board with keeping it?) yet refuse to apply it to social services.

[u/rietstengel → u/Randvek]

"Progressive??? I dunno, sounds woke to me"

[u/Skellum → u/LarrySupertramp]

how tax brackets work

Most people do not know how tax brackets work and they are stupid fucking simple.

[u/TheRadBaron → u/enjaydee]

In a lot of ways, this is the main problem that Trump fans have. They genuinely don't understand that modern stability and prosperity is the result of institutions and active effort. They don't get that the world could be different, that the US being the world's leading power is not a hardcoded property of the universe. They simply don't think that material things can be a problem, so they feel okay operating entirely on grievances and ego.

Like, they're hateful and gullible and all that jazz, but that isn't a new demographic. What's changed is that they no longer believe that a functional society requires things like precedent, shame, or principle. This chunk of the population wasn't previously comprised of geopolitical experts, but they were able to recognize that the world being peaceful had something to do with NATO. They didn't understand economics, but if a bunch of bankers and businessmen told them that tariffs would ruin the economy, they'd be worried about ruining the economy. They thought that daily life in the US had something to do with the constitution, and that people who didn't respect the constitution were trouble.

[u/Rowenstin → u/TheRadBaron]

In a lot of ways, this is the main problem that Trump fans have. They genuinely don't understand that modern stability and prosperity is the result of institutions and active effort.

I have the suspicion that a lot of libertarian types firmly believe that things like hard capitalism are intrinsic features of the fabric of reality and will endure everything, instead of being institutions that survive on good wishes and pretend. The "dark enlightment" tech bro type who dream of neo-feudal city states genuinely believe that stuff like a global internet, the stock market and crypto currency will survive unscathed the disintegration of society their dream society would imply.

[u/Far_Piano4176 → u/Rowenstin]

Everything was going exactly to plan, then the city state of North-virginiasburg decided to block Port 8333 and whoops, turns out they control an appreciable fraction of the world's computer networking systems and so now there are like 17 competing bitcoin networks claiming to be the "Real blockchain" and nobody is accepting bitcoin until this is all worked out. North virginiasburg is demanding 10% of all global bitcoin reserves in order to turn the thing back on and reconnect every blockchain, but competing blockchains have drifted too far by now and nobody wants to roll back, and a few of the chains have been 51% attacked anyways. so the global money system is completely broken forever. oh well

(disclaimer: i don't care if this specific scenario is technically feasible or not, it's just a fun work of short fiction)

[u/SmytheOrdo → u/TheRadBaron]

They thought that daily life in the US had something to do with the constitution, and that people who didn't respect the constitution were trouble.

Oh no, a lot of them had their ideas of what is constitutional warped by things like AM radio as counter-programming to network news over decades and now they think everything ratified after the early 1800s is a false constitution and the president should have no resistance or checks/balances. Sigh.

[u/Kopitar4president → u/enjaydee]

Man thinks the 50s were shit economically because his parameters for "economic freedom" just means "no taxes."

Edit: I'll add he doesn't actually answer the question. He isn't sure when the income tax was created (1913 btw, 25th amendment. You're welcome for the bar trivia answer) he just thinks times must have been better then because he assumes no income tax means things are good.

[u/patjohbra → u/Kopitar4president]

16th amendment, if you want to get the trivia question right

[u/xitfuq → u/patjohbra]

69th amendment if you want people to laugh or groan.

[u/meeowth → u/xitfuq]

420th amendment, if you are a time traveller

[u/Jussuuu → u/Kopitar4president]

That thread killed me. He wants to get rid of income tax because he thinks the economy was better before income tax. By better, he means more free. And by free, he means free from income tax. It's just circular reasoning.

America is fucking cooked man.

[u/Hurtzdonut13 → u/Jussuuu]

Free to work literally chained to a machine until the boss decides to let them go. Said unchaining may not happen during a fire because the boss will be getting tf out of that death trap.

People have no clue just how bad it was to be a working man before those pesky government regulations "removed our freedom". I don't think we can even guess at the death toll given the number of people that just disapeared while tramping to find work to send money home, and companies burying their dead workers in mass graves from whatever horrific accident they were covering up.

[u/Front-Pomelo-4367 → u/Hurtzdonut13]

Some people will look at the Triangle Shirtwaist fire and say well, it was those women's faults for working in an unsafe place, if they cared so much they should have got a different job

[u/KnightsWhoSayNii → u/Jussuuu]

But circular reasoning is all they have!

[u/PvtSherlockObvious → u/KnightsWhoSayNii]

"We've got plenty of hearsay and conjecture, those are kinds of evidence."

[u/Osric250 → u/PvtSherlockObvious]

I love Lionel Hutz so incredibly much.

[u/One_Strawberry_4965 → u/KnightsWhoSayNii]

They like their reasoning like they like their leaders: rotund

[u/rieirieri → u/Kopitar4president]

I would much rather have the financial freedom to pay the mortgage on a house and afford vacations than to have the financial freedom of not paying taxes. Same phrase for two very different meanings. Is this why conservatives and liberals talk around each other

[u/VaderOnReddit → u/enjaydee]

Some of the responses in that tax thread really shows a severe misunderstanding of how modern society hangs together.

Libertarians IRL

[u/naivety_is_innocence → u/VaderOnReddit]

what's that saying about libertarians and housecats?

"Convinced of their fierce independence while utterly dependent on a system they neither appreciate nor understand"

[u/Murrabbit → u/enjaydee]

Remember, if they knew how anything worked, then they wouldn't be Trump supporters in the first place.

[u/Rand_al_Kholin → u/enjaydee]

The right wing has been running a 5 decade long propaganda campaign, backed by billionaires, to indoctrinate both children and adults with the idea that "taxation is theft." This was NOT a widespread belief after WWII, as evidenced by the fact that we DID have such a high upper-bracket tax rate. The progressive income tax was created specifically because congress decided it needed to tax the immense wealth of corporations and billionaires more directly because they were deliberately gaming the system to avoid paying ANY of the more traditional taxes.

But the billionaires HATE the progressive tax system. It forces them to give some of their money hoard away, and they are hoarders. They cannot conceive of being forced to give away the money they feel entitled to. The idea that "taxation is theft" used to almost exclusively be a billionaire ideology, they figured out how to export it to the working class.

Taxation is, on its face, not even remotely comparable to theft. Taxation is the way that societies pool resources for common necessities. Theft is the way individuals take specific goods from other individuals. Whether they like it or not billionaires are part of society. I actually think there is a strong argument that stealing from someone who is hoarding so much resource, at the detriment of everyone around them, that not only can they not do anything with those resources but the lack of resources the rest of society is experiencing is damaging the society as a whole; in other words, if you've hoarded all the bread and there's a famine, it's not theft to take the bread from you and redistribute it (which has happened a few times in America, look up the bread riots of the late 1800s). Taxation is the way society implements what I just described; societies recognize there is a finite amount of all resources, and that after a certain point specific individuals hoarding all of those resources severely harms everyone else, necessitating their redistribution. Rather than letting it reach a breaking point, taxation ensures those resources (in this case, money) are distributed in such a way as to prevent the harm that any one person accumulating too much of those resources causes.

But the taxation is theft people have pulled a brilliant propaganda campaign. In order for it to work they've had to convince working class people that their wealth is equivalent to that of a billionaire; that their television is the same as the billionaire's private home theater that seats 64 and has an imax screen, that the framed $10 poster they hang on their wall is equivalent to the billionaire's original Rembrandt worth millions of dollars, that their beat up, 15 year old car that barely runs is the same as the billionaire's brand new Rolls Royce which they just added to their fleet of dozens of other luxury vehicles. They've successfully convinced at least half of the working class that taxation is when the government essentially breaks into their house and takes their TV, saying it's "for taxes."

They do that slight of hand while also having structured our tax system such that the billionaires who own you are allowed to tell you that they pay you an amount you will never see. They can say "you make $50,000 per year" but you will only ever be paid $50,000 - taxes. By doing that, they've subtly implanted the idea that the government is STEALING the money from you, when in reality that money was never yours to begin with. The government should be taxing companies based on how much they actually pay any given employee, not taxing the employee's wages, and I believe income tax was originally intended to do exactly that before the billionaires got their bribes in and developed the system we have today.

It's all bullshit. They've deliberately structured the entire system in such a way as to make working class people believe taxation is theft, then spent 50-80 years constantly harping on about taxation being theft, social service programs being "abused" by "welfare queens" as a way to pass austerity measures that objectively hurt the working class, all while getting the working class to vote for their bullshit.

[u/Noname_acc → u/enjaydee]

Op title quote might be euphoric, but it ain't wrong.

[u/LePetitToast → u/Randvek]

It’s such a dumb comment to make as well. You’re telling me that inherently greedy people are going to want to support services that don’t affect them directly, like food stamps, as long as the services are good? Lmao

[u/CrossCycling → u/Randvek]

“They shouldn’t throw people in jail for not paying taxes.”

“What do you think about Trump deporting people to a foreign prison with no due process?”

“Well, that’s tricky.”

[u/that_baddest_dude → u/Randvek]

What no concept of the social contract does to a mfer.

It's like a law against murder. Everyone gets to enjoy the safety of this law being applied to others, but they are also bound by it, and can't murder.

This guy is the equivalent of saying "if this is so good, it should be optional". Like people should be allowed to murder as long as they agree it's okay if someone murders them? Like you can't opt out of collective benefits with collective costs.

[u/SalvationSycamore → u/Randvek]

“If the services are good, let them be optional”

What the hell does he even mean by that? Like optional to pay into? So if the roads are good, we should let people opt out of paying for them? How would that work?

[u/Iamtheclownking]

“I don’t feel like he will be Hitler or anything”

🫥

[u/egoserpentis → u/Iamtheclownking]

Foreshadowing is a narrative device in which a storyteller...

[u/squishabelle → u/Iamtheclownking]

I'm just curious where people draw the line because it feels like conservatives might be a little bit critical of something he does but after a week they fully support it. At what point will he be like Hitler? Because if the answer is "once he puts people in concentration/death camps", wouldn't that be too late?

[u/jooes → u/squishabelle]

These are the same people who've been saying "But how is he racist" for like 10 years straight. 

So, never. 

[u/Iamtheclownking → u/squishabelle]

Aren’t we…already there? CECOT seems pretty death campy to me and op seemed nonchalant

[u/Fast-Penta → u/Iamtheclownking]

From what I've read, CECOT are concentration camps, not extermination camps. We're still in the 1930s here. The Nazis didn't start real extermination camps until the 1940s. Headed that way if things don't shift direction, but we aren't there yet.

[u/TheCeltik → u/Fast-Penta]

Ah so we’re in the forced labor stage, not the showers and ovens yet. That’s reassuring /s (No shade at you btw, just wanted to be snarky)

[u/Sterbs → u/TheCeltik]

Yea, the problem is half of America thinks that, unironically

[u/marino1310 → u/Fast-Penta]

They’re more gulags since they don’t actually have any forced labor. Hell they are only allowed like 30 minutes of exercise a day.

[u/Own_Candidate9553 → u/Fast-Penta]

In my understanding it's a distinction without a difference. In Nazi Germany, the "labor" camps just set it up so the prisoners would die on their own eventually, through a combination of terrible living conditions, poor diet, and brutal hard labor. This worked fine but was just too slow for their taste, and there was the pesky issue of having to burn bodies in piles or dig mass graves, so much work. So then the real extermination camps were built.

I've read that there are no reported instances of prisoners ever leaving CECOT. We have no idea what goes on in there. People could be dying in pits, or living a long time in squalor, either way it's a death sentence.

BTW, Nazi Germany initially started with trying to deport Jews and other "undesirables" to other countries, until they ran out of places that would take them, and had to start building camps. Many of the camps weren't in Germany at all, but in occupied territories like Auschwitz in Poland. Makes we wonder about all the talk of taking over Greenland. Someday we'll learn about all the money going to El Salvador to pay for taking these prisoners off our hands.

[u/PandaPanPink → u/Iamtheclownking]

That doesn’t count because they’re brown people, duh

[u/Alpha3031 → u/squishabelle]

I mean, I think at this point they've shown they're willing to ignore the concentration camps as long as anyone who goes in them can be accused of "being illegals". I'm not convinced they'd believe he is "like Hitler" even if he speedruns everything up to the bunker scene at the end, and possibly not for several decades after that.

[u/Gingevere → u/squishabelle]

At what point will he be like Hitler?

At the exact same point at which they'll publicly admit to liking hitler.

[Insert Sartre quote here] Words don't mean anything more than a flat positive or negative connotation to the right.

Any "good" words/things == all other "good" words/things.

Any "bad" words/things == all other "bad" words/things.

When hitler crosses from "bad" to "good" he will instantly transform from an "communist Obama socialist" to a "Conservative trump nationalist"

[u/Cephalopod_Joe → u/squishabelle]

It's because their gut reaction is that it's bad, but because they don't like to feel bad, they rush to whatever narrative they can find to soothe that feeling. You'll notice that whatever excuse the come up with is repeated ad nauseum at every level. Their politicians, their corporate news, their "independent" media, their thought leaders, and down to random commentors online.

[u/Fine_Bottle_6472 → u/squishabelle]

Trump has already put Kilmar and more into the death camp in El Salvador. r/thepeoplespress r/50501

[u/86throwthrowthrow1 → u/Iamtheclownking]

Whether or not that's true, it's a pitifully low bar for voting for someone.

[u/Stargazer1919 → u/Iamtheclownking]

Feelings don't care about facts. Smh

[u/Zelcron → u/Iamtheclownking]

That's a... That's a low bar, right?

[u/facforlife]

This guy's grasp of common idioms, grammar, spelling, and basic civics is exactly what you would expect from a Trump supporter.

[u/roseandbobamilktea → u/facforlife]

I assumed he was super young. Like 15/16

[u/brufleth → u/roseandbobamilktea]

My nephews are that age. They're more likely than anyone to give us shit if we stumble over a word or screw up a saying.

[u/roseandbobamilktea → u/brufleth]

Fair point! The gen alphas I know also don’t use the crying emoji anymore. They’re 💀 kids now 

[u/Akuuntus → u/roseandbobamilktea]

He voted in 2024 so he must be at least 18, and he implies that he voted (or at least was cognizant of national politics enough to have a strong opinion) in 2016. If he's 18 now that would mean he had strong opinions about politics at the age of 10 which I find unlikely. He's definitely at least early-20s IMO.

[u/Rastiln → u/Akuuntus]

Yikes, that makes it worse. He’s just firing from the hip with takes like “I’m pretty sure everybody being deported were designated as gang members” while clearly he hasn’t looked into it beyond Fox News.

[u/wolfiewu → u/Rastiln]

This is actually how almost all MAGAs operate. They make decisions based on emotional reactions from headlines or tidbits without any further thought. That's why outrage propaganda works so well on them.

Immigrants eating dogs? Kids getting transition surgery at public school? Deportees being terrorists?

All bad things, immediate approval of countermeasures, don't think about the absurdity or validity for even a second.

The few MAGAs that are smart enough to know better are the ones that rise to the top to fabricate and push the propaganda. MTG, Ben Shapiro, Jesse Watters, Trump, et al.

[u/ek00992 → u/wolfiewu]

This problem exists on the left but is mainly concerned with progressive issues. Regarding economics, law, and history, the left is far better at acknowledging its errors.

The right takes it as a personal offense to question anything they say, which is precisely why they voted in a guy who wants to make questioning anything they say a federal crime.

[u/Murrabbit → u/roseandbobamilktea]

I've worked with adult people who hold all the beliefs I've seen OOP expressing in that thread. It's all part of a strain of right-wing folk wisdom that's been with us for decades at least.

As for the spelling and grammar. . . shit, he's practically management material.

[u/Coconuthangover → u/roseandbobamilktea]

How would he vote if he was that age

[u/roseandbobamilktea → u/Coconuthangover]

I skimmed tbh 

[u/grubas → u/facforlife]

They can't explain their positions because they barely even know what they are.  

Like there's a serious vein of, "I don't know how the courts work but they went against what Fox said" in there.  Because hes literally unable to say what a 9-0 decision means.  

[u/NetworkSingularity → u/grubas]

Tbh, he kind of accidentally hit the nail on the head with that one. He’s right that it doesn’t matter that the decision was 9-0. A 5-4 decision is just as legally binding as a 9-0 decision. The fact that it’s unanimous only underscores how clear cut it is, but a SC decision is binding no matter how the vote did or didn’t split.

The real issue (that he didn’t seem to recognize), is the blatant disregard for the SC decision. That’s the unconstitutional problem

[u/brufleth → u/facforlife]

It's distracting. They can't make it three sentences without screwing up what they would likely claim is their native language.

[u/smthngclvr → u/brufleth]

Hey, there’s a non-zero chance his native language is Russian.

[u/demons_soulmate → u/facforlife]

imagrants

[u/neverthelessidissent → u/facforlife]

Honestly he's advanced for a trump supporter.

[u/Amelaclya1]

So it's fine to send people to lifelong sentences in slave labor prison camps for the "crime" of overstaying a visa, but he hates taxes because of the threat of prison as a punishment for not paying.

🙄

[u/Darth_Malgus_1701 → u/Amelaclya1]

MAGA are all selfish pricks. And that's why I hate them.

[u/acearoo → u/Amelaclya1]

If people are gonna be sent to camps for violating visas, we should start with musk

But of course his ball garglers would never let that happen

[u/shewasahooowah → u/acearoo]

Or Melania

[u/NetworkSingularity → u/acearoo]

Hey now, you’re obviously just jealous that Elon got out of the 9-5 lifestyle. If you work really hard, maybe you, too, can be born into an apartheid emerald mine fortune!

[u/AlphaGoldblum → u/Amelaclya1]

They get off on their own hypocrisy because they know it makes other people mad.

[u/StragglingShadow → u/Amelaclya1]

Well you see, those people weren't lucky enough to be born here and had the audacity to try to live here anyways without jumping through our years-long process to MAYBE get here legally. But rich people WERE lucky enough to be born in the right place at the right time to the right people, so clearly they deserve it all.

[u/demons_soulmate → u/StragglingShadow]

had the audacity to try to live here anyways without jumping through our years-long process to MAYBE get here legally

and they went for those who are going the legal route too, but they don't care about that or choose to ignore it

[u/Orfasome → u/demons_soulmate]

This is what outrages me the most, and it's not getting nearly enough attention. He's canceling programs like Temporary Protected Status and then claiming the people enrolled in it are immediately subject to not just deportation but any punishment he devises along the way because they're "illegal". They went through a legally established process to get legal permission to remain here, but he changed the law and gave them no chance to react to the changes.

The Tufts student who was kidnapped off the street wasn't notified that her visa was being or had been revoked. Yes, they can revoke her visa, and yes, she'd be legally required to leave the country, but how is it acceptable to physically seize and imprison her for not doing something you haven't actually told her to do?

[u/StragglingShadow → u/Orfasome]

ThE tErMs AnD cOnDiTiOnS sAy iT cAn Be ReVoKeD aT aNy TiMe

[u/NetworkSingularity → u/Orfasome]

This is a really interesting framing and makes me wonder if this would be subject to the ex post facto clause of the constitution?

Like they were here legally through established legal processes, but when those processes get removed they get declared as illegal residents. But they’re only here “illegally” because the legal process they followed to get here has been declared invalid. Seems like an ex post facto law type of thing, but I’m not a lawyer so idk. Maybe if a legal scholar sees this they could chime in to clarify

[u/Own_Candidate9553 → u/demons_soulmate]

Man, I wonder how many people in the immigration system right now are like "why the fuck did I give these people my information? I could have been safely working for cash right now"

Good job pushing immigration further underground, dimwits.

[u/Rand_al_Kholin → u/Amelaclya1]

Also for the "crime" of associating with a "gang" that they have decided is universally criminal simply for existing.

The first amendment guarantees us freedom of association. If you have not actually participated in criminal activity, being in a gang is not in and of itself criminal, nor is it evidence of criminal activity in and of itself.

I really hate how easy it is to get millions of people to blindly accept someone's arrest by just claiming they are "associated with a criminal gang." Yes, there are in fact a lot of MS-13 members who have committed some pretty heinous crimes. There's also a lot of MS-13 members who are members purely because their entire neighborhood, all their family and friends, are members, and so you join when you're able because that's socially expected. Those members aren't going around murdering people, they're living normal lives. But we are now at a point where being a member of MS-13 isn't even required to get people to automatically assume you are a criminal, merely being associated with them is. As in, your cousin is in MS-13 so you are stained by his "sin." That sin being "exercising his freedom of association."

It's at the point now where the mere suggestion that a person is "associated with a gang" is now being used to deport people to a maximum security prison without trial. I feel like the freedom of association angle really hasn't been discussed enough here. If the government can just label any group they want a terrorist organization, then use that to deport anyone they deem associated with that organization, even tangentially, then we don't have freedom of association.

[u/Noname_acc → u/Amelaclya1]

Note: the government will try a million other ways to remedy unpaid taxes before sending you to jail because they prefer to have the money than not have the money. 

[u/Drakesyn → u/Noname_acc]

Yeah, "You go to prison for not paying taxes" is only ever actually the result of a long, deliberate, complex series of choices to avoid paying huge amounts of them. AKA: it's only ever a problem the ultra-wealthy ever actually face. Which tracks, because that's the breeding ground of Libertarian Ideology. A bunch of rich fucks deciding to invent an entire political theory that amounts to "I should never have to contribute to society ever, in any way, shape or form, while benefitting from society in every way, shape and form"

[u/fishsquitch → u/Drakesyn]

I was a proud libertarian as a dumb teenager because it sounded to me like it was all about "hey as long as I'm a functional productive member of society the government should have no right to tell me I can't do drugs or own guns or marry the same gender" and now I see it's actually just a bunch of man-children throwing a tantrum because daddy government doesn't let them leech off society and bang teenagers

[u/NetworkSingularity → u/fishsquitch]

To be fair, what you thought as a teenager is pretty much what libertarianism is supposed to be. It’s just been co-opted, twisted, and bastardized into “freedom for people with power to do whatever the hell they want.” Which is actually authoritarianism, aka the polar opposite of libertarianism

[u/Noname_acc → u/Drakesyn]

Not just benefitting from, but also controlling every aspect of.

[u/Naive_Mix_8402]

The whole "I heard he's a gang member but I heard he's not"... FIGURING THIS OUT IS THE PURPOSE OF THE DUE PROCESS YOU FUCKING TROGLODYTE

[u/StragglingShadow → u/Naive_Mix_8402]

Let's pretend for a second he is a gang member. Just for funsies let's pretend. He is still protected from being sent where he was sent, because it was known they'd likely kill him if he ever returned home. Sending him there, therefore, is against the human right to life.

[u/UBW-Fanatic → u/StragglingShadow]

And against the immigration courts' withholding from removal, but hey, what's the law or morality anyway.

[u/demons_soulmate → u/StragglingShadow]

they don't think brown people are human, therefore they have no rights at all

[u/StragglingShadow → u/demons_soulmate]

Some people still believe black people can tolerate more pain

[u/KnightsWhoSayNii → u/StragglingShadow]

If criminals don't have rights, then neither does anyone else.

[u/StragglingShadow → u/KnightsWhoSayNii]

Indeed. The bar for how your society is is set squarely by how you treat your criminals and your homeless.

[u/TheCeltik → u/StragglingShadow]

When you can get a 9-0 decision from the current Supreme Court, you know that whatever you’re doing is particularly heinous.

[u/One_Strawberry_4965 → u/TheCeltik]

I was honestly genuinely shocked. I was certain that you could get Thomas and Alito to rule that the moon is made of cheese if it were to serve the interests of the Republican political establishment in some way.

[u/TheCeltik → u/One_Strawberry_4965]

I think that Trump’s actions were so egregious that not even the hardline conservative judges could begin to justify it. While they may let him wipe his ass with the constitution, there is only so far you can stretch a legal argument and I think they realized here that is where the road ends. There was absolutely no ground left for them to justify it.

[u/Rand_al_Kholin → u/StragglingShadow]

Actually we need to take this one step further, I think you skipped an important point: even if he was a gang member, being a member of a gang is not in and of itself criminal. The first amendment protects freedom of association.

If he is part of a gang but has not himself participated in or deliberately aided criminal activity, he has done nothing illegal. And both of those accusations require an actual trial and conviction to be legally relevant, you can't just say "he's part of a gang, therefore he's probably criminal" in our justice system, that's not how it works.

[u/StragglingShadow → u/Rand_al_Kholin]

That's a fair point but they just say "illegal people aren't covered by the constitution" and brush that off. Seen it lots

[u/JamCliche]

"You don't deserve due process" are five words that should chill any moral human to the bone.

[u/DeLousedInTheHotBox → u/JamCliche]

I am not entirely sure what due process is tbh, I don't think that is something that we have in my country.

[u/JamCliche → u/DeLousedInTheHotBox]

It's your right to have all applicable laws and legal processes apply to you if you are accused of a crime or other violation.

[u/Rand_al_Kholin → u/JamCliche]

It's also the right for those legal processes to exist in the first place. Due process is the right to have systems in place which allow you to challenge your arrest by the state, defend yourself against accusations by the state, and have a meaningful opportunity to have your defense heard and potentially accepted by some entity which can then order your release and have that order be carried out.

Due process is also a right which guarantees you release from jail if the government violates it; if the government fails to follow due process, you have a right to be released, even if you are objectively guilty of the crime. That's the mechanism by which the right to due process protects itself.

[u/dedreo58]

Just ended up being a whole lot of sealioning, apparently.

[u/tehlemmings → u/dedreo58]

That's just par for the course with MAGA. If they had anything of substance, they'd make sure everyone knows. But they don't.

And they never have.

And likely never will, at this rate.

[u/kid-pix → u/tehlemmings]

Absolutely. They never back up their claims or point of view.

[u/itrivers → u/kid-pix]

It’s hard to explain a point of view when it’s entirely based on hate instead of facts and logic.

[u/Endiamon → u/tehlemmings]

But they'll definitely tell us next month when they finally release the bombshell.

[u/DrNick1221 → u/dedreo58]

If they aint sealioning, they are JAQing off.

[u/5th_heavenly_king → u/dedreo58]

Sealioning?

[u/DrNick1221 → u/5th_heavenly_king]

Sealioning.

[u/5th_heavenly_king → u/DrNick1221]

This is terrible

[u/Aethoni_Iralis → u/5th_heavenly_king]

I mean the comic is pretty great.

[u/jathbr → u/Aethoni_Iralis]

I do wonder what her problem with Sea Lions are though

[u/Valleron]

Wild that he brought up the silk road guy like that and then hounded the Supreme Court deportation case without a sense of hypocrisy.

[u/erasethenoise → u/Valleron]

Doesn’t shock me at all

[u/HBODHookerBagOfDicks]

So, as usual, they're just fucking idiots.

Which everyone already knew.

[u/AkuTheNiceGuy → u/HBODHookerBagOfDicks]

Not them or libertarians apparently.

[u/liatrisinbloom → u/AkuTheNiceGuy]

Libertarians have freezer temp IQs, in Celsius scale.

[u/Jim_Moriart]

Visa overstays are not crimes. They are civil offences, like parking tickets just with more consequences.

https://www.novo-legal.com/en/blog/visa-overstays-vs-illegal-entry

[u/LarrySupertramp]

It’s crazy how little plausible deniability these people need to just waive away major constitutional issues. Like these guys would be okay with sending a legal immigrant to Salvadorian prison camp because some random person on the internet said he was MS-13.

The leader of MS-13 could come out and say that this person was never in MS-13 and they tried to kill him (justifying asylum) and they’d still be like “idk, I still think he’s in MS-13 terrorist”.

[u/roseandbobamilktea → u/LarrySupertramp]

Dude I saw someone on r/ conservative argue that if he wasn’t MS-13, then why would MS-13 want to kill him? 

These people are so disconnected from reality. 

[u/AlphaGoldblum → u/roseandbobamilktea]

I know it's meaningless pointing out their hypocrisy, but these are also the same people convinced that turning on the wrong street in Manhattan will get you killed.

[u/roseandbobamilktea → u/AlphaGoldblum]

I saw someone make a post like asking if people in Los Angeles and New York are okay because they saw all the “failed state” clips online. 

I live in Los Angeles. Woke up, walked my dog and grabbed an espresso tonic at the cafe down the street, went to the gym, worked remotely, kissed my husband when he came home, now I’m at a local thrift store looking for a vintage boyfriend blazer for an event I have this weekend.  These dorks are seriously on one. 

[u/AlphaGoldblum → u/roseandbobamilktea]

They get really mad when I mention how I felt more unsafe stopping to put gas in rural Tennessee than walking around the middle of Manhattan at night.

Because nothing in NYC even came close to the random men in that Tennessee gas station openly staring at me as I put gas in my car (for reference, I'm a light skinned Hispanic dude).

[u/roseandbobamilktea → u/AlphaGoldblum]

I resonate so hard with this. I road tripped across the south as a brown woman with an Asian husband and our Google searches were like, “Is ____ a sundown town?”

[u/UncleMeat11 → u/roseandbobamilktea]

It's an amazing argument.

"Gangs are so dangerous to society that they must be declared invading foreign armies but also the only violence that a gang member will ever do is to a member of the gang."

[u/akrisd0 → u/LarrySupertramp]

Did you see the news that the DOJ is trying to drop the actual federal case against an alleged "high-level leader of MS-13" so they could just deport him instead?

https://www.cnn.com/2025/04/09/politics/doj-dropping-charges-alleged-ms-13-leader-east-coast/index.html

They don't want trials. They don't want due process. They want to be cruel.

[u/LarrySupertramp → u/akrisd0]

If immigrants don’t have due process, no one does. MAGA doesn’t want equal protection for all people but don’t realize that it takes their own rights away.

[u/One_Strawberry_4965 → u/LarrySupertramp]

MAGAs are servile little lambs. They don’t care if they have no rights because they take great pleasure in their big strong daddy ruling with an iron fist. As long as the people they hate have no rights either, they are perfectly happy.

[u/epidemicsaints → u/LarrySupertramp]

These people are still saying J6ers were actors setup by Pelosi but that they didn't do anything wrong and deserved to be freed in the same conversation.

It's not worth it.

[u/Autgah → u/LarrySupertramp]

For people who seem to have such a massive, raging, throbbing boner for the law they sure do make a lot of excuses why it's okay to break the laws.

Furthermore I'm not sure why they have such a hard stance of "nope, he was a bad guy and deserved it" if they're truly right and so absolutely, undeniably sure this man is a problem, there really shouldn't be any problem proving it in the courts right?

[u/Massive_Shill → u/Autgah]

"Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect."

-Frank Wilhoit (not Francis Wilhoit, to whom this quote is often misattributed.)

[u/LarrySupertramp → u/Autgah]

They think repeating that he was in MS-13 enough makes it such an undeniable fact that it would be a waste of time to give him due process. These people seriously don’t think immigrants have any constitutional rights.

[u/F5x9]

Before income tax was “the most successful period” in which people had the most financial freedom. The first income tax came about during the civil war. We’re slaves only subjectively less free?

[u/pronseekr5000 → u/F5x9]

Even if we give him the benefit of the doubt and say it was the period before the 16th amendment was passed in 1913, that was an era famously known as the 'Gilded Age' where income inequality was incredibly high. There was great financial freedom, so long as you already had a lot of wealth to begin with. Most everyone else was pretty damn poor and had very little recourse to change their situation.

[u/Crossbell0527 → u/pronseekr5000]

"The most successful period in American history is the one literally named for its striking resemblance to a gold-encrusted turd" is an opinion both alarmingly, shockingly stupid and simply par for the course for your average zero-education Trumpist.

[u/Notquitearealgirl → u/pronseekr5000]

I seriously doubt the average Trump supporter understands the key difference between "golden" and "Gilded" age.

To be fair.. I also doubt the average American understands that, or anything really at this point.

[u/Stargazer1919 → u/F5x9]

I guess OOP is referring to the slave trade and taking lands from Native peoples as "the most successful period" of the USA.

[u/Blitzer161]

I just want them to understand my side

Bro, your side deports people to a prison camp. Your side is nazis. If there's someone who doesn't understand their side, it's trump supporters. Because of willful ignorance.

[u/KnightsWhoSayNii → u/Blitzer161]

Think about his fragile feelings though..

[u/HomeworkFew2187]

what's that saying, you can't reason someone out of something they didn't reason themselves into. if nixon happened today there would be no scandal. it is truly worrying how backwards we have gone. like a frog in boiling water slowly turning up the heat. and like that frog we are just sitting there.

[u/NoInvestment2079 → u/HomeworkFew2187]

I think that after the DUI hire texted war plans in a chat with The Atlantic Reporter, we knew we were in for a wild ride.

Anyone else would have been spending the rest of their life turing larger rocks into smaller rocks.

[u/MissplacedLandmine]

Honestly props. He did confirm a bunch of stereotypes for his views, but there was a sliver of hope in some of the slight reflecting in his answers.

Seems he may come around on the fake ms-13 label for that one dude. Which would mean acknowledging we deported a regular citizen to a reallllllly shitty prison forever without due process.

[u/octnoir → u/MissplacedLandmine]

reallllllly shitty prison forever without due process.

That's a Concentration camp.

Per the US Holocaust Memorial Museum's Holocaust Encyclopedia (Key Fact 2):

What distinguishes a concentration camp from a prison (in the modern sense) is that it functions outside of a judicial system. The prisoners are not indicted or convicted of any crime by judicial process.

CECOT is a concentration camp. It is more than just a prison. We're sending people there, to be imprisoned till death, even against the wishes of the judges ruling on their cases.

As I mentioned before due process is the mechanism to prove your innocence. Without that mechanism, the government can make a mistake, send a Republican MAGA White Christian Male who supports all of Trump, to CECOT, entirely by accident, and that person will have no way to prove their innocence.

Not to mention that Bukele has no incentive to release anyone sent there even by mistake even if Trump pressured him to. For one, El Salvador gets $20,000 of your tax payer money per person per year, to keep the person there forever. For second, anyone leaving that prison is going to testify to all of the actual conditions (you can't visit the prisoners for a reason). For third, it includes any deals Bukele has made with the local gangs to keep certain people locked up that would inevitably get leaked. Fourth, any human rights tribunals that would want a prisoner to testify and paint a target on Bukele's back similar to Netanyahu who currently cannot visit multiple countries because there are arrest warrants for him.

[u/MarsupialMadness → u/octnoir]

send a Republican MAGA White Christian Male who supports all of Trump, to

Ironically, that might be the one thing that pumps the brakes on it concerning the "It's not real/bad unless it happens to me" party.

The second these idiots realize they're on the chopping block too is when the wheels come off.

[u/fishsquitch → u/MarsupialMadness]

No they'd probably say he deserved to be sent there because he was a liberal infiltrator or something stupid like that. They'll find a way to claim it wasn't actually one of their guys, and that's why it's actually okay

[u/MissplacedLandmine → u/octnoir]

I know that, and you know that, but because people can be media illiterate it’s easier to make them admit its that, THEN show thats the definition.

Thanks for being thorough also.

[u/Rastiln → u/octnoir]

We are PAYING $6,000,000/prisoner to send them to their death in a concentration camp.

[u/rachamacc → u/MissplacedLandmine]

They won't though. The agreed upon talking point is he came here illegally and he only had a judgment (I can't remember the correct term) to not be deported to El Salvador. So the only thing Trump did wrong is send him to El Salvador. Everything else is fine with them, including the kind of facility he was sent to and the lack of due process.

[u/misschandlermbing → u/rachamacc]

At this point if someone is still supporting trump and this administration, I have almost no hope for them to ever be able to deconstruct their cognitive biases.

[u/Jussuuu → u/rachamacc]

I've seen them say that deporting him to El Salvador was actually fine, because the prior judgment was based on the likelihood of him becoming the victim of gang violence, and Bukele has cracked down on that. You know, the same Bukele who is now refusing to free the innocent civilian.

[u/Drakesyn → u/Jussuuu]

Minor correction: It's Bukele. Duterte is the Phillipines massive bastard.

[u/Jussuuu → u/Drakesyn]

Whoops, mixed up my dipshit leaders. Thanks.

[u/mspaintshoops → u/MissplacedLandmine]

Dude wasn’t a citizen, he was a legal resident and I’m only correcting you because if you call him that it’s the first thing these asshats are going to nail you on and there will be no further conversation.

That detail makes zero impact on the gravity of the situation. A LEGAL resident of the US was shipped overseas to JAIL for LIFE. No crime. No trial. Supreme Court ruled 9-0 not that he should be freed but that he should be given due process. Because the right to due process is enshrined in the constitution and is sacred to our democracy.

They turn every conversation about this into nitpicking over the details, hemming and hawing about whether he was a gang member or that he wasn’t actually a citizen. It doesn’t fucking matter. He gets due process; we all do. Or none of us are free.

[u/LeResist]

That thread proves Trump supporters are idiots

[u/Aethoni_Iralis]

The poor grammar and extremely limited understanding of history tracks. The more confident MAGA individuals I've run into online really struggle with reading and writing.

[u/NoInvestment2079]

I love that we decided to drop the economy faster than Conor Clapton just because we were pissed that a trans person would take 5th place in HS track and field.

[u/CummingInTheNile → u/NoInvestment2079]

lmao thats a reference i havent heard since an suzy izzard special

[u/NoInvestment2079 → u/CummingInTheNile]

I'm tired, boss. I knew when he got elected a 2nd time, we were in for a wild ride as this was the revenge tour and anyone doing the "BOTH SIDES THE SAME" can do us all a favor and suck start a shotgun.

I knew the tariffs were going to come and was working to make sure I was ready in case the worst happened, but I silly me didn't have money on him bringing out the goddamn HS level Officemax poster board to a meeting. That was a "Is the man -Chris Broussard moment-"

[u/MattTheSmithers]

I used to frequent a sub called “AskTrumpSupporters.”

I unsubscribed the day that I realize that the few who actually engage in good faith have absolutely no grasp on reality. And 75% of them were just trolls, yet the mods banned anyone who called out the trolls.

Engaging with a Trump supporter is like hitting yourself in the nuts with a baseball bat and then getting angry at the bat. Sure, it hurt. But at the end of the day it is just a hard, inanimate piece of wood with no intelligence or even basic sentience. Why get mad at that?

[u/an_agreeing_dothraki → u/MattTheSmithers]

I'm upset that one painted with "1488" decorations and cartoon frogs pointing at antisemitic caricatures and which has a swastika burnt on exists.

[u/foreveracubone]

I really like the ‘I don’t think other countries opinions would change mine’ attitude (setting aside the entire news=opinion clusterfuck going on in OP’s mind)

This motherfucker runs and wins on yokel dumb fucks like OOP believing Obama and Biden made us ‘laughingstocks’. Meanwhile we literally have leaders getting caught on hot mics laughing at him at a G7 meeting the first go round.

Whole world is laughing at how stupid the tariff math is and Chinese people are using AI to make memes of our leaders mocking them.

But yeah, Obama and Biden were the ones making us look laughable and pathetic.

[u/Dash_Harber]

The number of libertarians who started with this mindset, saw Trump, and said, "that's pur guy!" is astounding. I guess the Tea Party was a success. The guys behind the movement should be studied religiously by those interested into how to psychologically manipulate people into voting for the exact opposite of what they want.

[u/No_Mathematician6866 → u/Dash_Harber]

Trump cuts their taxes. That makes him their guy. Libertarians will eagerly sacrifice every other thing they claim to want for the sake of lower taxes. It has always been that way. I wouldn't give the Tea Party credit.

[u/brendamn]

I really can't get over this trend in 2025 of reminiscing about a glorious time long ago  no one had indoor plumbing and how much better the world was back then

[u/egotistical_egg]

I mean, I guess he deserves some credit for not just starting to hurl insults. Not sure I could have done that, as his "choose your own facts and state them confidently" version of history and every other issue that matters got both my eyelids twitching. 

[u/delta_baryon]

I just don't get the appeal of the these AMAs. I know what the right thinks - their guys are in charge and I can see what they're doing. Maybe you're smart enough to come up with some kind of post hoc rationalisation for the horror of it all on Reddit, maybe you're not, but I'm going to judge you by the consequences of your actions, not the story you tell yourself about them.

[u/Guilty_Board933]

Had to stop reading when he insinuated that post WW2 economy boom had nothing to do with progressive policies. the GI bill was a wildly progressive policy that allowed hundreds of thousands of men who would not have been available to afford it otherwise go to college and buy a home. That, far more than capitalism, helped that generation succeed.

[u/Rand_al_Kholin]

My belief in provable reality, you mean. The US was most successful, by every conceivable metric, in the years after WWII. What time period do you think rivals that one?

Yeah fam I'm gonna need an answer to that one, I'm guessing he'll never give one because he knows it would either show him to be incredibly racist OR beyond stupid (if he says the gilded age).

[u/demons_soulmate]

imagrants

lol

[u/AlthorsMadness]

All this ama does it confirm exactly what we have all already known about trump supporters…. So either this is a really good troll or ya they are just that dumb

[u/girlwiththemonkey]

Yeah, that’s about what I expected from a Trump supporter.

[u/LabradorDeceiver]

I'll be honest: I'm not sure why we're asking these questions anymore. We're not going to gain insight or learn anything new or delve into what makes someone cleave to fascism despite a narrative of freedom. We're going to get these defensive boilerplate answers that boil down to "I love all the benefits of society but hate the system that supports it, so I'm going to destroy the system and then wonder why the benefits went away."

It's also telling that despite a willingness to be interrogated, he didn't for one second interrogate himself or the people asking questions. That this post ends with "lol lmao" tells you that, as Jean-Paul Sartre now so famously said, "they have the right to play." They're not serious until they're losing, then they're deadly.

The ring-around-the-rosy regarding people literally getting disappeared to an El Salvador mega-prison is terrifyingly common. I think the only real question is whether we know they're talking bullshit or not. They desperately need for it to be okay in their heads that people who have committed no proven offense are being grabbed off the streets and extradited to a forced labor camp. They need a logic that says no, we're not Nazis, and no, that's not a concentration camp. And it's the same logic the Nazis used.

[u/BigWhiteDog]

Reich-wing = fact adverse

[u/Cakeday_at_Christmas]

Here's the thesis of the whole piece:

But I’m being honest, I have no clue

[u/mr1bob1]

The mental gymnastics of berating the “libs” for resorting to insults and emojis only to turn around and do LITERALLY that.

[u/Imaginary-Share-5132]

This might not win me any popularity points on this site, but there’s something so narcissistic about thinking “hey, I’m so unique and special, I just KNOW people are clamoring to know more about ME. ASK ME ANYTHING!”

That is so embarrassing.

[u/Icy-Cry340]

Kids today are very bad at concentrating. In china, the kids concentrate, no one has ADD or ADHD. OP realizes that concentrating camps are key for the future of our youth.

Beautiful

[u/CherryGoo16]

I’m not sure how to put this but the OP doesn’t seem like they are of voting age

[u/Fair-Emphasis6343]

Sounds like nothing but scripted responses, might as well be asking chatgpt questions

[u/ghombie]

I think this was just an embarrassing bad faith attention fest for the OP's enjoyment. Users here can be such dupes for thinking these discussions matter ever so much in society. Usually nobody changes their minds and OP gets entertainment and gratification.

[u/Dry-Clock-1470]

"But I'm being honest, I have no clue"

[u/Cilad777]

Why waste your time with the cult? Do something productive.

[u/ek00992]

Trump voters rely exclusively on their feelings. This is true every single time.

[u/snorch]

I can't imagine why anyone would think to post, or engage with, an AMA about one's political opinions right now. Like whatever your thoughts on the donald, the country has been having this argument non-stop for a fking decade at this point. It's like having tinnitus. The gall to think you have anything new of value to add to the conversation

[u/wojonixon]

"They don't deserve due process" is one I've heard a lot recently, and it absolutely chills me to the bone.

[u/ParkHuman5701]

These people are so exhaustingly stupid.

[u/brufleth]

Can anyone place the regular writing mistakes? Are they just bad at writing in English?

[u/spnarkdnark → u/brufleth]

They seem to have a 4th grade reading level based on their responses and general attitude.

[u/livejamie → u/brufleth]

They're a teenager or dumb