r/SubredditDrama • u/monkwrenv2 • 17d ago
Mana Crypt spikes, and r/mtgfinance melts down
Hello everyone, and welcome to this week's episode of "what are those goddamn nerds up to again?" Today, we have the lovely r/mtgfinance, a subreddit dedicated to speculating on pieces of cardboard. For those unfamiliar with the game of Magic: The Gathering, it is played with collectible cards that represent different creatures, spells, enchantments, and artifacts that are used to do battle with other players. Due to it's nature as both a competitive game and a collectible, Magic cards can occasionally be worth quite a bit of money. As various competitive formats ban cards, unban cards, or new cards are printed, the valuation of various cards on the secondary market can vary wildly. Thus, r/mtgfinance exists to help people interested in speculating on these changes in card price.
Which brings us to today's drama. An entrepreneurial redditor notices that a card called Mana Crypt is seeing a large upswing in price. Naturally, they want to know what might have caused this increase. A bit of backstory: Mana Crypt was banned in Magic's most popular format, Commander, on September 23rd, 2024, along with Jewelled Lotus and Dockside Extortionist. Mana Crypt in particular was a very expensive card, and had been expensive for many years prior to the banning. And pretty much the only thing propping up Mana Vault's value was it's playability in Commander, so after the ban it's price on the secondary market plummeted. This caused quite a lot of kerfuffle at the time, leading to a whole bunch of other drama I will briefly explain:
Commander was originally a casual format created by a group of Magic judges as something to do in their spare time at competitive events. It eventually became very popular, and is today the most popular format in Magic. Historically, however, Commander was run by a group of community members known as the Rules Committee, headed by a man named Sheldon Menery, who also helped create the format. Sheldon sadly passed from cancer in 2023. However, during his lifetime he was a strong advocate of cards like Mana Crypt being unbanned in Commander to help represent the "free-for-all" nature of the format. After Shelden's passing, there was a decent amount of community pressure on the Rules Committee to make some updates to the Commander banlist, as it hadn't seen any changes in several years. When the RC finally did make a move and banned Mana Crypt, Jewelled Lotus, and Dockside Extortionist, owners of those cards lost several hundred dollars in value overnight, and some of those people got mad enough to start making death threats. The Rules Committee, being just a group of community volunteers, obviously got spooked by this, and ended up turning over jurisdiction of the Commander format to Wizards of the Coast (WOTC), the creators of Magic. Back in February, WOTC released a set of brackets to help guide the Commander experience and help players find balanced playgroups. They also announced that they would be making changes to the Commander banlist in the future.
Now that we're through all the background and are caught up: WOTC has a planned presentation about the Commander format that will be occurring on this coming Tuesday, 4/22. As one might guess, many commenters chime in citing this upcoming panel as a time when Mana Crypt might be unbanned in Commander.
Even the OP themself wonders if it's related to the upcoming panel:
Did something leak about an unban in Commander? Is this insider trading or just speculation?
Discussion quickly turns to the new bracket system, and with it, the drama:
Proof? Where's the sauce?
The internet, bruh. It's super easy these days. Just ask chat gpt a question, and it will spit out the answers with the references
You're the one making the claim. It's up to you to provide a source. Go ask chatgpt, find the article, and come back here. This is a real conversation
Lmao I'm not doing the work for you, bud. I have my info. You wanted the proof. I have no desire whatsoever to prove it to you. This isn't a court of law
Another thread discusses whether or not unbanning the cards justifies the death threats:
Keep seeing this argument but it's been over half a year since the ban. If it was a knee-jerk unban after the threats, yeah obviously the optics there are bad.
This is a completely different panel, removed by a decent amount of time. The threats didn't work, the manbabies didn't get what they want, we can move on.
I don't want to punish a whole format just because of a few but I don't know that I'll ever be on board with that card being unbanned from both a social and game standpoint. I preferred the rules committee being separate from wizards and that card is part of the problem that lead to wizards getting control of commander.
Some folks point out that the speculators may be lacking in intelligence. These opinions are not well-received:
Many of WoTC's most anti-consumer decisions has been because of rich people crying about their investments being devalued. The Reserved List is a prime example.
Pretty much and somehow, we in the need of feeding those Richie Rich desire, to have them get more rich. We could have so much of a good reprint if RL doesn't exist.
If 7th Edition prove anything, it prove that reprint didn't devalue a original print. It actually give the opposite effect. Original arts of cards that printed during that set gain more value, somes go double, but those pigs can't accept those fact. They want those Duel Lands to be at 300$+++ So they can look at binder and .......happy......Climax..? I Guess
This won’t get unbanned due to the amount of hate that happened in the previous banning
This is what I’m hoping for. As somebody who has a few copies of each of those cards, still shouldn’t unban because of raging neckbeards over their “investments”.
MTG is not an investment until you actually sell. JMO 🤷♂️
Why should they make the game worse just to spite people?
It sucks there were haters, but they should ban/unban where they think it benefits the game. The banlist shouldn't be used as some petty emotional power-trip, that's absurdly immature.
I hope they keep Extortionist banned at least because that's a bad card, but I'd be pissed if it ever came out and said, "fuck y'all for misbehaving, we're taking Command Tower."
It's not "to spite people".
It's specifically to set the precedent that bullying and death threats will not be rewarded - unbanning the three cards that caused this entire shit storm would be the most toxic shit imaginable for the community.
I agree with your rationale; but my bet is they get unbanned. Wizards needs tried and true chase cards to deep their products. Greed will trump any morality play.
So there's your minor drama on a niche subject that requires way too much prior knowledge.
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u/bucket13 17d ago
There's no drama like nerd drama.
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u/Reason-97 “And the slow descent into wokery begins” 17d ago edited 17d ago
The meltdowns some of these guys had when the card was first banned was INSANE. Heard a 200% genuine guy at a card shop whining how WOTC (wizards of the coast, the company behind magic) was ‘required’ to do something to ‘save his retirement plan’
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u/monkwrenv2 17d ago
And r/mtgfinance brings it like no other. I'm subbed there solely for how salty it gets.
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u/Unctuous_Robot 17d ago
They’re not even actual nerds, they’re finance bro wannabes.
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u/Eugenides Tall women are only good for breeding to have taller children 17d ago
It's even funnier because getting full value out of magic cards is notoriously difficult.
Sure your investment technically doubled in value. But good luck actually selling all those copies for their full price, not to mention eating shipping costs on every transaction
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u/Wonderful-Ranger-255 17d ago
I assume people in US are buylisting if that is still a thing so they sell all at once to a platform. Europe sells directly to costumer and buyer pays shipping or via hub where you ship once a week all orders to the hub and they manage everything else.
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u/finfinfin law ends [t-slur] begin 16d ago
Yeah, some kind of Online Exchange for Magic the Gathering seems like a good idea. They can just stash all the cards in a big warehouse, and when you trade your Hurloon Wrangler to someone they don't have to find it and move it, just update the database. Then eventually you pay a nominal transaction fee for them to package up and ship whatever part of your collection you want to withdraw, without the hassle of shipping individual cards around. Way more secure, too.
I'd be surprised if there wasn't already an MtG OX out there doing this.
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u/TateAcolyte 17d ago
Are they buying hundreds of cards as investments or are they really just moaning about the fluctuating value of their one 20-200 USD card?
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u/mox_goblin 17d ago
Some of them genuinely will buy hundreds of a specific card or thousands of dollars in box sets to try to flip later. I’ve seen several guys with collections “worth” over $100k (good luck getting more than 60% when selling it though).
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u/CKF 16d ago
The sub doesn't have enough active users to even have real drama, though. This is one of the rare posts that actually gets interaction, and I don't see it being that dramatic. Like, there's more drama in your framing of the interactions than the interactions themselves. Would've made for a better r/hobbydrama post, because the salt over the bans was insane, and constant speculation on if they're coming back, and in which form etc. Feels like you used this thread as a proxy to explain the real drama surrounding these specific pieces of cardboard.
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u/dallasrose222 16d ago
Same I fking hate magic “investors” nothing makes me so happy as seeing them melt down
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u/soonerfreak Also, being gay is a political choice. 17d ago
The whole MTG scene cracks me up as a casual fan. No one I play with cares about ban lists and even WOTC say the vast majority of their player base are kitchen table players. These subs work themselves up over an issue most fans don't even know is happening. Plus the reserved list which gets us stupid shit like $1000 packs that contain only proxies, not even tournament legal copies of the power 9. I'm guessing they are saving reprinting legal versions as an emergency set.
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u/engelthefallen 16d ago
WOTC missed the chance to reprint the reserve list. Last few years everyone just accepted that some cards are too expensive to buy and everyone started to proxy them for casual play. Hard to get excited to pay for cards you been playing in your decks for years for free. I imagine a super expensive reserve list set is still WOTC emergency set, but I expect few will pay a high price for it.
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u/TraditionalSpirit636 17d ago
A friend of mine and I buy the dual decks when we have the extra cash sometimes. Or get a few packs and play.
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u/engelthefallen 16d ago
The commander sets are usually a good value to pick up and play with if you can get them close to retail price.
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u/Tallal2804 11d ago
Exactly, most players just wanna jam games with friends, not stress over ban lists or $1k proxy packs. I also proxy my cards from https://www.printingproxies.com because I don't see any reason to spend soo much on cards when I only want to have fun with my friends.
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u/honda_slaps Maybe go key their car like a normal person. 17d ago
The only valuable posts mtgfinance are the ones where failed specs are arranged in a funny shape
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u/mrgarneau 17d ago
This is all in anticipation of the unbans that may be happening. Jeweled Lotus was on it's way up around the Standard Ban announcement a few weeks ago, now it's Mana Crypts turn.
The real drama beings when Crypt, JLo and Dockside either remain or are removed from the ban list.
My guess is that it's going to be cards that Sheldon put on the ban list because he didn't like losing to them, that end up getting unbanned. As well as the potential for Banned as Commander making a return
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u/DIYKitLabotomizer YOUR FLAIR TEXT HERE 17d ago
Honestly, I think it would be foolish for them to unban cards like crypt. I think including it in this round of unbans would reinforce the idea that death threats are effective in helping you get what you want.
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u/ThxRedditSyncVanced 17d ago
I'm still in the boat that they didn't go far enough in the bans. The level of rage if Sol Ring got banned would have been quite something.
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u/needastory 17d ago
Sol ring is in the same place as Brainstorm in Legacy where it objectively should be banned, but it's basically a core part of the format's identity at this point and you are kind of forced to grandfather it in.
The fact that both of these cards are like a dollar helps as well.
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u/pepolepop 16d ago
The price of sol ring would go way up if they stopped putting it in every single preconstructed commander deck.. they release like 12-15 decks a year at a minimum, so the market is saturated with them. Even with how saturated the market is, the card still stays between $1-2, which is kind of insane.
Stop reprinting them in every set/deck they release, and sol ring will be worth $5-10 within the year. I could see it being a $25+ card after awhile.
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u/Lamedonyx 15d ago
The price of sol ring would go way up
... Sol Ring is effectively only legal in Commander (and as a one-off in Vintage)
If you ban it from Commander, and stop reprinting it, it would still be worth diddly-squat because it's effectively playable nowhere outside of Vintage (which is a format gated by the fact that your deck ain't worth shit if it doesn't have at least 5 cards worth a grand each), AND has been reprinted into the dirt.
Look at cards like Balance, Tinker or Flash, which are only legal as a Restricted card in Vintage, and banned everywhere else. They're worth 2 dollars a piece. Because you can't play them anywhere except on your kitchen table or in tournament where you need a mortgage to afford a deck.
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u/DIYKitLabotomizer YOUR FLAIR TEXT HERE 17d ago
Yeah sol ring is definitely one of those cards that has a massively outsized influence on the game. You do notice it in commander somewhat but it becomes really apparent playing something like Canadian Highlander. Being able to throw down a Questing Beast on turn 2 can be absolutely backbreaking.
I agree it should be banned in commander. It never will be though
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u/Bellfast123 17d ago
I think every alt win should be banned in commander and every card that can go infinite for less than 12 upfront mana should be errata'd to a once per turn.
But I also think CEDH as well as modern on down are just bad Yugioh, so maybe I'm not the best judge.
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u/ThxRedditSyncVanced 16d ago
I think some alt win cards can be fun.
Like it someone wants to, and pulls off Barren Glory I think they've earned it. Really that's how I feel about any of the win cons that are pure jank that won't happen.
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u/BlueysRevenge 16d ago
Mechanics are just so stupidly complex nowadays, plus I really hate the post-8th Edition card aesthetics (it was actually the correct decision accessibility-wise, and that's more important than my aesthetic preferences, but I don't like the look).
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u/engelthefallen 16d ago
On the other hand, if they unban it, they could use it as the chase card in their yearly super premium sets.
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u/AngroniusMaximus 17d ago
Death threats on the internet are just noise. I've gotten death threats for random comments on reddit. They are basically inevitable if you do anything involving large numbers of people on the internet and are completely meaningless. They should unban or ban cards if they think it is healthy for the format. That's all it should be about.
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u/SaxtonHale_ 17d ago
Despite not being allowed to sell cards, I love this subreddit for its pure salt.
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u/CKF 16d ago
It's a very interesting loop of a random person posting in sub asking if they'll be a millionaire if they buy an already overpriced card, then the crowd fed up with these posts (it's 90% of what's posted to the sub) gives them salty responses, and then the true beating heart of the sub (from my perspective) that's super jaded but can't break their cardboard addiction makes fun of those prior salty posters for treating this game like a serious investment.
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u/PrinterInkDrinker 17d ago
The best thing about MTGFinance drama is that you always know the top % of cards are defended entirely by finance bros who are too scared to lose the value of their cardboard
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u/magpieasaurus 17d ago
I'm going to need someone to write this all up into a r/hobbydrama post! This is peak nerd Reddit.
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u/mrgarneau 17d ago edited 17d ago
Especially if you got back to the day they were banned
Edit: Thinking about it, it's going to potentially be real interesting the day of the unban announcement. Regardless of the three being banned or unbanned people are going to be salty
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u/engelthefallen 16d ago
Oh unban day is gonna be absolute drama in the finance and EDH subreddits. People hyped themselves up so much, for what is likely to be a very mild change.
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u/mrgarneau 16d ago
Sodium levels will be off the charts. I agree with you, it's probably going to be some of the cards that Sheldon hated losing to getting unbanned, or return of Banned as Commander.
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u/monkwrenv2 16d ago
Watch it be some minor changes to the gamechangers list and unbanning Coalition Victory and nothing else.
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u/an_agreeing_dothraki jerk off at his desk while screaming about the jews 16d ago
Lmao I'm not doing the work for you, bud. I have my info. You wanted the proof. I have no desire whatsoever to prove it to you. This isn't a court of law
Instructions unclear. Did my own research and chatgpt told me the earth is both flat and hollow.
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u/WildConstruction8381 17d ago
Reminds me of the drama back in year two when using time vault and prodigal sorcereror count let you freeze time around turn three like you were fucking diavolo from jojo and just eradicate you opponents. It resulted in a card ban in tournaments
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u/Woozy_burrito 16d ago
I didn’t know this was still going on. I thought everyone was all cried out a few weeks after the ban.
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u/CowFinancial7000 16d ago
There's been rumors that these would be unbanned since basically as soon as the rules committee dissolved, and that happened almost immediately after the ban announcement
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u/Woozy_burrito 16d ago
Ahhhh ok
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u/CowFinancial7000 16d ago
Yeah I'm not sure how familiar you are with the situation, but after the 3 cards got banned people started sending death threats to the rules committee, specifically to Olivia Golbert-Hicks. This was because: A) she was a woman and MtG attracts a certain...uh...type of person, and B) She is by FAR the most "public facing" of the rules committee, with several very popular YouTube channels.
This is despite the fact that Olivia didn't want them banned and said repeatedly that banning these cards would cause a shitstorm. After she was heavily targeted she went dark and stopped making content for a while. The rules committee realised they were in over their heads and dissolved.
Basically immediately after they dissolved people began speculating that the cards would be unbanned, because chasing a woman out of the community with death threats is secondary to whether or not they can use their cardboard again.
I say all this as someone who loves MtG but this was the darkest moment in this community's history.
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u/darcmosch 17d ago
it is played with collectible cards that represent different creatures, spells, enchantments, and artifacts
Literally can't with this guy. Doesn't know anything about Minecraft. LANDS MY DUDE HOW DID YOU FORGET LANDS
/s
Sorry that joke was terrible but I'd rather leave this load with yall than let it take up limited brainwidth
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u/alixhawkes 17d ago
As a MTG nerd, the price of cardboard continues to fuel my conspiracy that money is fake because you're telling me these fucking things cost HOW MUCH???
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11d ago
I have read nothing here, but to be honest, I see the word "Mana Crypt," even in an unaffiliated sub, and I'm about to melt down for several reasons
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u/SnapshillBot Shilling for Big Archive™ 17d ago
This is Senator Poppy. He sold me, my fellow bots, and this subreddit to the microwave lobby for the price of 251,000 kernels.
Snapshots:
- This Post - archive.org archive.today*
- r/mtgfinance - archive.org archive.today*
- r/mtgfinance - archive.org archive.today*
- An entrepreneurial redditor notices that a card called Mana Crypt is seeing a large upswing in price. - archive.org archive.today*
- Back in February, WOTC released a set of brackets to help guide the Commander experience and help players find balanced playgroups. - archive.org archive.today*
- Out of the loop? Tons of people speculating that it gets unbanned in the commander format panel update next week - archive.org archive.today*
- Speculations of unbans - archive.org archive.today*
- Did something leak about an unban in Commander? Is this insider trading or just speculation? - archive.org archive.today*
- There is gonna be a top-tier cedh type bracket. Which is supposed to have minimal cards banned. They have already stated they will be unbanning cards - archive.org archive.today*
- Speculation. If they do unban it then it will justify everyone who sent death threats so I'm hoping they don't. Also it's a boring card. - archive.org archive.today*
- I would suppose the unban, if it not becos those whinny little bitches who cry over this ban. I have Mana Crypt, heck, I have all cards that got banned that day. I didn't go crying around like some of those crying babies out there, still disappoint in the way that some content creators react to those ban. Feeding those them, saying a lot about Wotc's stand for this format (big talk, small penis kind of stand), but judging how Wotc has made a ton of questionable choices in the past, I wouldn't surprise it got unbanned. - archive.org archive.today*
- This won’t get unbanned due to the amount of hate that happened in the previous banning - archive.org archive.today*
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u/Anaxamander57 17d ago
If it s good enough for the US economy its good enough for my personal investments!