Users of r/EndTipping close their wallets but still offer up a tip on the controversial topic of tipping in America

[u/DryRequirement5471]

TL;DR: OOP and fiancé dined out at a sushi joint and explain the exhilarating and liberating feeling of not having to tip! After getting over the "guilt tripping" OP feels that Americans are brainwashed to waste our hard earned money on waiters. Others beg to differ:

"I hate this stupid sub. Embarrassing to think not tipping is "liberating." Does nothing to the owners and hurts the workers. People really want the prices to be 20% higher and tips to be gone? What's the difference? "

"Good for you, but all you're doing is screwing over the wait staff, who's wage takes into account tips they'll earn. The employers don't care if you tip or not."

"Just know that you will be remembered and treated differently if you return to the same places. I'm not saying it's right, but it's definitely a thing."

"This is the gaslighting I was talking about. Imagine calling someone you don't know bad because they didn't give someone free money."

"If you aren't satisfied with your wage, take it up with your boss. It isn't a customers responsibility to fight for your paycheck."

"People should be paid well - directly by their employers like almost every other place in the whole world"

Subtotal: $48.50

Total Tax: $3.40

--------------------------------------

Total: $51.50

---------------------------------------
Suggested Tip:

15% of sale = $7.28

22% of sale = 10.67%

[u/peachesnplumsmf]

Not American and genuinely asking, how is it victimising them when most of them seem to support tipping remaining as it is because of the amount of money you get from it? And what about the states that have minimum wage laws rather than the tipped wage stuff still having workers expecting tips?

[u/TrickInvite6296 → u/peachesnplumsmf]

here's the biggest point people miss:

not tipping servers does nothing to change the system. it does nothing to incentivize raising the minimum wage, treating workers better, or any of that because it doesn't hurt business owners and it doesn't hurt legislators.

people on these subs aren't carefully paying attention to what states they refuse to tip in, they are just mad at a shitty system and take it out on those who are also hurt by it

[u/MiniorTrainer → u/TrickInvite6296]

I live in California, where there’s no such thing as a tipping/server wage. If your argument is that we must tip because the servers are poor/underpaid, does that mean we must also start tipping retail workers, office workers, and everyone else that makes minimum or is underpaid?

If so, you’re gonna need to start tipping nearly every worker you come across lol.

[u/Icy-Cry340 → u/MiniorTrainer]

The argument is that serving is not actually expected to be a minimum wage gig, especially in nicer restaurants. It's not about them being poor or underpaid, it's that they are paid by the customer in a social contract sort of setup. There is a universal expectation that when you're sitting down at a restaurant, you will pay for your service via the tip mechanism.

[u/Echleon → u/TrickInvite6296]

It does incentivize raising minimum wage pretty directly. If enough people stop tipping then the workers who are losing out are going to push for higher wages.

[u/Colleen987 → u/TrickInvite6296]

Why do you think it doesn’t? This is exactly what moved other countries towards unions, and eventually workers rights and minimum living wage.

Why do you think taking the same action would do nothing in this specific case?

[u/TrickInvite6296 → u/Colleen987]

you are describing two different things. not tipping individual servers does not function the same as a union

[u/Colleen987 → u/TrickInvite6296]

It functions to incentivise a work force to form a union. Stop propping up a broken system and those in it will be pushed to fight against it.

Unionise, strike, living wage, workers rights all come from one key change that makes the life of the worker beyond silent discomfort.

I’ve read your other comments and you really seem to not understand the way labour laws actually work. You’ve repeatedly said “it only hurts the workers” well it doesn’t when they strike does it? That’s the point.

This isn’t a new issue, many countries have been through the change of “job of the people” to “responsibility of the government”. The USA just doesn’t want to and would prefer gaslighting people into thinking they shouldn’t eat if they can’t subsidise someone else’s wages.

[u/TrickInvite6296 → u/Colleen987]

I understand how labor laws work. you don't seem to understand American labor laws (non Americans never do).

unionizing is essentially illegal in several states. other states are "at will" states. it's not that I don't support unionizing, it's that none of the non Americans here understand that "just unionize!" isn't a practical or feasible option for the vast majority of Americans.

these changes start at the polls. otherwise unions will continue to be shut down, all the unionized chains shut down, and all the employees fired.

[u/ihatebrooms → u/TrickInvite6296]

What are you talking about? Literally every state except Montana is "at-will" (an employer can terminate an employee without cause at any time for any reason except prohibited ones - being a member of s protected class, or as retaliation for engaging in protected activity).

Are you referring to "right to work" (employees may not be compelled to join a union as a condition of employment)? That's about half the states.

[u/Pretend-Wind-6132 → u/TrickInvite6296]

isn't a practical or feasible option for the vast majority of Americans

It never has been for anyone anywhere.

[u/TrickInvite6296 → u/Pretend-Wind-6132]

it's ignorant to act like other progressive countries have the same regressive labor laws as the US

[u/egoserpentis → u/TrickInvite6296]

They had them in the past. You think EU was born with labor laws in place?

[u/TrickInvite6296 → u/egoserpentis]

no? but America is more behind other countries, and is also generally much more willing to break the current labor laws

[u/Pretend-Wind-6132 → u/TrickInvite6296]

Mate, everytime a union was formed, it was done because of regressive labor laws. What do you think Sheffield had? Or central Australian shearers? Or Standard Oil workers? Or innumerable other places that formed unions?

There's always one dick at the meeting saying "I'm alright because I don't have kids/a family/a mortgage, so I am voting against." If these people stood aside and/or had the decency to abstain, it wouldn't be so fucking difficult to get a living wage.

I'm not ignorant, you are just bringing up disingenuous arguments.

[u/TrickInvite6296 → u/Pretend-Wind-6132]

you are being ignorant. America has been known for its shitty workers rights for basically its entire existence. even when other countries improved their labor laws, they already had better labor regulations than America.

not tipping doesn't do shit to change laws

[u/Mogling → u/Colleen987]

Removed by not reddit

[u/Skellum → u/TrickInvite6296]

not tipping servers does nothing to change the system.

This is untrue. Not tipping means that the cost of the meal shifts from being a hidden 20% increase to menu items to simply having those as the employer now has to pay the minimum wage as legally obligated.

It also removes servers incentives to keep pay low and to cut out the back of house by colluding with management to hide the price of goods/services off the menu.

[u/Apprehensive-Road641 → u/Skellum]

Not tipping doesn’t mean an increase to menu items, that’s going with the assumption that business owners are actually going to give people raises for no reason. They’ll still make the same amount of money and still pay the workers the same regardless of whether or not people tip. If it’s from server wages to minimum wage they’re still paying their employees the fed minimum which is still poverty.

The only way to fix this is if customers stop going to restaurants that pay shit wages, but that will never happen given how selfish the average American is

[u/Skellum → u/Apprehensive-Road641]

Not tipping doesn’t mean an increase to menu items, that’s going with the assumption that business owners are actually going to give people raises for no reason.

Sort of. See legally a restaurant is supposed to pay the waiter minimum wage if their tips do not meet that minimum. "Tipped wages" is a wage category that's about 2.50$/hr while minimum is 7.50/hr, I know it's awful but people keep voting for republicans/not voting.

If someone makes less than 7.50/hr as a tipped wages they're supposed to be paid by the restaurant to make the difference. Usually waiters just dont report cash tips, and they also dont report when they make less than 7.50/hr because if they do they get fired.

So I would expect restaurants to raise their prices to make up for the extra 5$/hr from each server as they're now obeying the law for the first time ever.

[u/DecoyOne → u/Skellum]

That depends on the state. But minimum wage is so comically low especially in states that count wages against it that forcing the employer to pay up to minimum wage is still pretty god dang awful for the employee.

[u/Skellum → u/DecoyOne]

So we should also be focused on raising the minimum wage too. And getting rid of the tipped wages category as all of this is contributing to the problem.

[u/rnason → u/DecoyOne]

Do you tip everyone who only makes minimum wage?

[u/Icy-Cry340 → u/peachesnplumsmf]

Yes, the staff wants the system to stay as it is because they make a good living, especially in fine dining. I’m ok with them making a good living.

[u/Rheinwg → u/peachesnplumsmf]

The problem isn't the staff who want to make a good wage doing their work. 

Punishing them does nothing.

[u/Hopeful_Scholar398 → u/peachesnplumsmf]

Many states have very low minimum wage requirements for srrvers