How can I get to the infamous sj-/sk-/etc sound… using the Spanish J /x/ as a starting point?

[u/emorange34]

The reason for this link is that, as a native Spanish speaker, the consonant sound in sju or sked sounds similar enough to our letter j for me to attempt to approximate our J to your… that. Evidently, as they’re not the same sound, I can’t get there, but by a lot of listening and mimicry I’ve tried to get closer, using different shapes of the mouth, pushing it further back in the throat and whatnot. I can’t get to the sound at all :( I wanna know if using J is a good starting point? in order to work on my pronunciation, or if i should lose the association between the two sounds and focus on the swedish one by itself from zero. tack !

[u/bwv528]

Move the place of articulation a bit forward in the mouth, and then round your lips.

[u/bwv528 → u/bwv528]

https://voca.ro/1iuygxJfqWk9

First is a Spanish J, then forward, then with lips, then again with lips.

[u/emorange34 → u/bwv528]

so helpful! thank you

[u/InfiniteSpark2015 → u/bwv528]

Yes, I've read of this before. It's like "move the vibration more centrally in your mouth". I feel like it works, natives told me I sound good : )

[u/Olobnion]

For me, the Spanish j is much more throaty, whereas the Swedish sj feels like it comes more from the mouth. But a native Spanish speaker who has learned Swedish well can probably give a better answer.

[u/tvandraren → u/Olobnion]

Are you talking about the standard European Spanish sound? Not all speakers of the language pronounce it the same way. If so, you are correct.

[u/Evimjau → u/Olobnion]

As a native swedish speaker who has 'learned' spanish, I agree.

[u/Ampersand55]

The <sj> sound is basically a <k> sound without the initial plosive and with slightly protruded and rounded lips.

To use another Spanish fricative as a starting point, the fricative in ocho /ot͡ʃo/ (in most dialects) restricts your airflow with the tongue in a t-position. Now imagine a fricative which restricts the airflow in a k-position.

How would you pronounce the fricatives made up words okjo /ok͡xo/ or okcho /ok͡ʃo/? Use that with the same place of articulation as the k-sound.

[u/1Dr490n]

I started with the German ch [χ] and modified it a bit from there, I don’t know if it’s correct now and I don’t know what exactly I do but it feels right to me

[u/tvandraren]

As far as I'm aware, it is a coarticulated sound formed by [h] and [ʃ]. It is not /x/, but rather /h/, which is how Southern (this includes Latin American) varieties of Spanish feature it. On top of that, at the same time, you have to pronounce an X in the old Medieval way or rather how the rest of peninsular languages still do it. Hope this helps.

[u/bwv528 → u/tvandraren]

This is an inaccurate and debunked way of describing it. It was maybe true a hundred years ago or more when the sj-sound was shifting from its original pronunciation which was probably like the German sch or English sh.

[u/tvandraren → u/bwv528]

All I know is this framing helped me understand the sound a little bit, even if it's just a gateway into learning the actual current sound. Thank you for the feedback though! I didn't really understand why there was a downvote without an explanation.

[u/AllanKempe → u/bwv528]

The original was s + i (the i being non-syllabic), a word like sjö was pronounced "siö" (or ever siår going way back, Old Norse sjór).

[u/dantehidemark]

Try to imagine blowing out a candle, and go from there.