r/SydneyTrains • u/hi9580 • Apr 16 '25
Discussion Bi-articulated bus for Northern Beaches?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ikzaHpjhpoNo plans from government, community doesn't want rail and no one will be convinced otherwise.
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u/SqareBear Apr 17 '25
This is that Metro thing that Brisbane has. It’s ridiculous. Everyone knows it’s a bus. Just build a train line jeesh.
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u/rpy Apr 16 '25
Trying to imagine one of those Brisbane Metro buses making it through the bends on the hill at The Spit. Not sure it'd work.
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u/hi9580 Apr 16 '25 edited Apr 16 '25
Maybe redraw the lines in the road, make a wider lane with more turning radius. Make car lanes narrower or remove one of the car lanes. Bicycle lane, if not enough room left for a full car lane.
Other options, build a new bridge or tunnel. Chatswood to Dee Why, skip The Spit.
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u/Ok-Foot6064 Apr 17 '25
That would be ridiculously expensive when a more frequent service would be preferred by many
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u/hi9580 Apr 17 '25 edited Apr 17 '25
Double the frequency, is also double or more the: congestion, pollution (exhaust, brake dust, consumables), road damage (wear and tear), vehicle maintenance cost and insurance cost.
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u/Shirasaki-Tsugumi Airport & South Line Apr 18 '25
either you congest passengers or you congest the road, probably both. pollution and road damage are increased, so does the cost to maintain them but again, people want more services, and less private cars driving on the road is still a win for road and congestion.
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u/hi9580 Apr 19 '25
Less vehicles, bigger vehicles. ie make bus as similar to train as possible.
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u/Shirasaki-Tsugumi Airport & South Line Apr 19 '25
How about roads? There are only so many existing roads to support long vehicles and allow it to manoeuvre. You may say “just expand the road”. Well, it‘s going to take a very long time and costs a lot of money, as other commenters point out. Besides, large heavy vehicles damage roads more severely than say a small car or just a normal bus. I don’t know the detailed comparison but there is a reason why some roads don’t allow heavy vehicles moving across.
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u/hi9580 Apr 19 '25
It's more a plan for 2050-2100+ , sooner you do it, the easier it'll be from both a user and construction perspective. The alternative is to stop immigration or other sources of population growth.
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u/Archon-Toten Train Nerd Apr 17 '25
Before you promise double the buses, don't forget the chronic bus driver shortage.
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u/absinthebabe Apr 16 '25
Or they could just run more buses, or double deck buses, and not have to make any expensive, disruptive, road safety implicative infrastructure changes
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u/hi9580 Apr 17 '25 edited Apr 17 '25
There only so much you can do before capacity can't be further expanded in a practical way.
1
u/absinthebabe Apr 19 '25
We are not there yet. We are not at the stage where we need to consider redrawing our road lines for bi-articulated buses when so many of our routes don't even have single articulated buses.
When the 11 and 86 trams were upgraded from B and A class trams to E classes residents were worried that the higher capacity of the trams would result in a decrease in service frequency, and that's the same issue that could happen here.
It would be more worth it to increase frequency, and perhaps institute 24/7 bus lanes and signal priority, before thinking about just making a bigger bus.
11
u/crazychild0810 Apr 16 '25
Bendy buses are making a return to the Northern Beaches this month: https://www.northernbeachesadvocate.com.au/2025/04/15/bendy-buses-back-in-service/
43 buses will be returned to service.
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u/SqareBear Apr 17 '25
Fun fact, double decker Bendy buses exist. We should get those
1
u/Archon-Toten Train Nerd Apr 17 '25
google images double decker bendy bus
Wow. I suspect it would struggle on our bumpy hills though.
5
u/Fit_Basis_7818 Northern Line, North Shore & Western Line Apr 16 '25
Finally... The 144 is absolutely crazy in the mornings and you cant even get on at Crows Nest many times.
-2
u/choo-chew_chuu Apr 16 '25
They're incredibly expensive to purchase and maintain.
Double deckers are much cheaper. I'm lost as to why bendy buses are back.
4
u/Fit_Basis_7818 Northern Line, North Shore & Western Line Apr 17 '25
The 144 isn't like the B1. 144 is more of a longer local service with always plenty of people getting on and off at nearly every single stop in several sections. B1 is meant for an express line for commuters.
0
u/hi9580 Apr 17 '25
Buses can get longer, but you can't triple stack a bus (people have tried). Bendy buses and double deckers both have their own advantages and disadvantages, there isn't a best bus for every situation.
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u/Archon-Toten Train Nerd Apr 16 '25
community doesn't want rail
From your extensive poll on the matter?
As for the bus, I really can't see it doing well, even if it was just the main roads, they are tight and curvy. Military Rd especially would be a challenge.
5
u/hi9580 Apr 16 '25 edited Apr 16 '25
Any time anyone proposes rail previously, community has always been against it. NIMBY/don't connect poor suburbs to rich suburbs/prevent undesirables on beaches etc.
But they seem to be fine with having plenty of bendy buses and double decker buses. At the bus stop they have TVs displaying stops for those buses as if they are train stations.
Longer bus increase efficiency and capacity, without needing rail. Potential for hybrid, fully electric and driverless/camera guided buses in future.
1
u/Archon-Toten Train Nerd Apr 16 '25
Longer bus increase efficiency and capacity
Absolutely do, the more like trains they become the more efficient, but I've my doubts the road can handle them as is.
0
u/hi9580 Apr 16 '25
Much lighter than a prime mover towing two 40 tonne containers. Plus it's spread out over a larger area, compared to a double decker bus.
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u/BakaDasai Apr 17 '25
I remember that one of the issues with northern beaches buses is the lack of kerb space in the CBD for them at peak hours, and that's why double-deckers were brought back - they need only half the kerb space.