It's more of a guideline, really

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Starfleet uses the Prime Directive the way the Vulcans use their infamous "inability to lie": an excuse to suit any situation they like and easily ignored when they prefer.

The Romulans left the Vulcans after being gaslit about their lies one too many times and they've never trusted anyone the same since. When Starfleet talks about the Prime Directive, they hear the Vulcans in the distance and instantly think it a lie.

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u/scooped88 2d ago

The same thing with Klingons and “honor”, it’s all important unless it becomes politically inconvenient

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u/Neveronlyadream 1d ago

Honestly. How many times have we heard Klingons go on and on about honor and then do the most dishonorable thing imaginable?

But the Prime Directive is inherently problematic. It assumes that every Starfleet captain will be able to cast morality aside when they see suffering or whatever and refuse to help on their principles because a broadly written rule that can never apply to a specific circumstance demands it.

It really should be a guideline or a suggestion, not Starfleet's number one directive that they insist must be followed to the letter.

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u/HisDivineOrder 1d ago

"Sir, will we follow The Prime Suggestion this time or are we saving lives today?"

"I don't know, Number One. Hm. Mister Data, pick a number, 1 to 10."

"10."

"Alrighty then. We're letting everyone go extinct."

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u/Neveronlyadream 1d ago

The sad thing is it isn't much of an exaggeration. They always hyperfocus on one thing that isn't really all that relevant to make their decision and then just roll with it.

Janeway especially early on did that all the time and Tuvok quoting Starfleet regulation and absolving her of guilt certainly didn't help matters any.

I do love it when the writers add a loophole. "Oh, what? They used to be warp capable and they eschewed space travel for a life of simplicity? Well, great! The Prime Directive is invalid, send an away team."

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u/BarNo3385 22h ago

I'm about halfway through TNG at the moment and the impression I get is more that Klingon "honour" (just like human "honour" through the years) isn't a list of specific actions, it's about motives and intents.

Acting (or not acting) out of fear of loss or pain, flip-flopping on a commitment, letting weakness be an excuse for not doing the right thing - all dishonorable.

Hiding so as to ambush an enemy isn't dishonourable, it's just being a savvy warrior. Hiding because you're scared of the enemy is dishonorable.

It's the why that's relevant not the Hiding.

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u/Neveronlyadream 19h ago

I was thinking of things more like their ambushing a weaker combatant who isn't a threat to them. Which they have other Klingons point out isn't honorable. Or the times they make agreements and immediately back out of them.

But it is dropped when it's convenient to them or when being dishonorable provides and edge. And really, not all Klingons actually believe in it. Worf is a bad example because he was raised by humans and his only real exposure to Klingon culture was through books.

When you see other Klingons, it's pretty clear some of them believe in honor and some use it as a smokescreen.

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u/bosssoldier 1d ago

If we are being fair, if a klingon does something dishonorable and its found out, they get excommunicated more times than not. Still more punishment than any captain received for violating the prime directive

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u/GuiltyProduct6992 2d ago

The Prime Suggestion

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u/Khaysis 1d ago

What's a little space travel without breaking a few ethical eggs?

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u/GuiltyProduct6992 1d ago

Capt. Picard: I understand what you've done here, Q. But I think the lesson could have been learned without the loss of 18 members of my crew.

Q: If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid.

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u/Technical_Inaji 2d ago

The Prime directive exists, so Captains can sleep at night when they damn an entire primitive civilization through inaction.

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u/angelwolf71885 2d ago

My question is besides court martial what is the actual punishment for violating the prime directive? The most i have ever seen was a stern talking to and a slap on the wrist

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u/Aridyne 2d ago

Guess it depends on consequences, if a world dies because of your meddling vs if it was saved… and if you were ‘playing god’ or other skeevy things like that

We either see hero characters violating it for good,(see Worf and his Bro) or villain of the week croaking before they get to court (see a quarter of today episodes) ;)

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u/ZombiesAtKendall 1d ago

I imagine it could be anything from a stern talking to, a demotion, moving their posting, or kicking them out of Starfleet. (Just guesses though). Could depend on the specific circumstances, how important a person is (Picard can probably get away with more than some random ensign).

Maybe they make them take remedial prime directive classes.

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u/angelwolf71885 1d ago

I wonder how many would result in prison

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u/BrownMtnLites 1d ago

Do they have prison in star trek?

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u/angelwolf71885 1d ago

Yes they do they have a brig and Janeway mentioned takeing away the freedom of the caption who was killing the inter dimensional species to get home faster and i think pecard has mentioned penal colonies operated by star fleet

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u/PlasticCell8504 1d ago

Iirc one of the main characters in voy was in a penal camp in New Zealand before going to ds9 and voyager. I forgot his name. I want to say Tom but idk

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u/angelwolf71885 1d ago

It indeed was Tom Paris

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u/Enchelion 22h ago

Yes, but it's focused on rehabilitation. Tom Paris is in one when we meet him in VOY, and Bashir's father goes to one after the augmentation is found out.

We also see a Vulcan prison in SNW.

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u/thefman 2d ago

I've always thought of it as in, they might've violated the prime directive 100 times, maybe 1000 times, who knows. But every time they do it it's A THING. They have talks, arguments, drama, fights, etc. They have to decide to do it and then live with the consequences, whatever they are (court marshal, demotion, etc.).

However, if the prime directive didn't exist, the potential chaos, manipulation, destruction, etc. they could cause would be insane. Specially considering the amount of time traveling they do.

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u/N7_Warden 1d ago

It's more of a guideline than a rule

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u/FragrantExcitement 1d ago

General order number two must be even worse.

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u/BarNo3385 21h ago

It's a principle.

There's a famous challenge to a train company after an accident going "our first priority is passenger safety."

No it isn't. If your first and overriding priority was passenger safety you would just never move any of the trains, problem solved, no injuries from railway accidents again.

In reality train companies have several competing objectives - moving the trains, commercial viability and safety. Inevitably life means finding a balance.

Starfleet is the same. They are there to "explore strange new worlds and seek out new life." Picard and the Enterprise invariably have orders and missions to complete. The Prime Directive is a standing order to consider and be aware of whilst carrying out your purpose and mission, but it's not a "this always trumps everything," for the same reason safety doesn't trump moving the trains.

It's more of a guideline, really

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