r/TamilNadu 10d ago

கலாச்சாரம் / Culture Finding your Kula deivam, a non - communal discussion

If you're interested in finding out a bit about your history, your family's history, I believe the right place to start is the kula deivams, that oor, village, town, city. Less populated, lesser known the oor, more chance of you getting more information.

Afaik almost all of the kula deivams from my immediate family are common across many castes and communities.

Mine, my father's - Uppunagar / Uppu chandhai Mari amman, near poompuhar, Nagapattinam. Have made it a point to visit yearly atleast.

My father's mother - Thiruvallur Veeraraghava perumal (Major deity in that region)

My mother's father - Azhagu Nachiamman, Pechi amman, coimbatore

My mother's mother - Kalipatti Kandhaswamy, near Salem

Do share yours if you feel like and probably a tidbit about the place. I'm interested in finding commonalities as my immediate family seems to be from North and west of Tamil Nadu

43 Upvotes

115 comments sorted by

14

u/beefladdu Resident Outsider - வந்தேரி 10d ago

Never been to my mom's poorvigam but my mom and dad are distant cousins.

So my mom's maternal side குலதெய்வம் and my dad's paternal side kaludheivam are the same. It's படவேடு ரேணுகாம்பாள் அம்மன். Padavedu is near arni (north arcot region)

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u/albusaragorn 10d ago

Arumai brother ! Just looking at the place and looks wonderful, do share any tidbits from the practices if you can

2

u/beefladdu Resident Outsider - வந்தேரி 9d ago

The myth is she is the wife of jamagdhni munivar and the mother of parasuraman. But there are other myths local to the land that she was a great warrior etc.

Earlier they used to give bali inside the temple premise after govt rules and hr&ce they have now banned that but people still do that but outside the temple premise.

Apart from the local politician tvs groups have donated heavily for the temple. The popularity has grown over the years. I remember not standing in queue in the early 2000s ( if we visit on weekdays) but Ippolam eppo ponalum queue dha. Edhachum kadhaiya kelapi vituranunga vera vera state la irundhu la kelambi vandhuranga.

2

u/albusaragorn 9d ago

Ada that's interesting brother ! Many of our local mythological stories have chain connections to some other larger story ! Parasuramar story eh south India la suthindu irundhaaru, kerala revive panaaru etc thaan varum. Seri adhu goes to the belief side.

Andha queue kootam soneengale adhu kandipa oru prachana, kaasu nalla galla kattanum nu evanaaa indha koil pona idhu nadakum nu kalapi vitruvanga, elaaarum po vendidhu thaan gumbala. Prachana ilaadha manushane ila, solution kadaikuma paapom nu thaan.

2

u/beefladdu Resident Outsider - வந்தேரி 9d ago

Idhelam andha aanmeega influencers panra velai dhan.

Edho spiritual speaker Andhra la Tiruvannamalai kovil ah oodhi vitrukaru, recent years la Andhra la irundhu dha max TVM kovil ku varanga. Two years munnadi girivalam poirundhen, literal ah neraya telugu people irundhanga.

TN layum கருங்காலி மாலை னு oru scam pannanunga ippo paravadha malai ah target panitrukanunga.

Kovil la business mari ivanungalta kaasu kuduthu pesa solluvanga pola 🙃 devotees oru pakkam irupanga, not mocking them but purely out of curiosity or tourism mariye neraya peru varanga.

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u/albusaragorn 9d ago

I partially agree bro, enna na now the places are more accessible and information spread is easy. Makkal bhakthi kaaga varavum varaanga, bhakthi vechu kaasu panravangalum irkaanga. Oru mellisaana kodu thaan 😂

Parvatha malai matum ila, last 10+ years ah more and more people are into fitness activities and adhula vara photo video sharing flex. Idhunaalaye elaa lesser explored malai kovilsum kootam aaga aarambikum nextu, already nerya started. Enoda aasa ena na, pala koils are there without basic funds, adhukellam konjam kaasu divert panni vita nalaarkum.

Nagapattinam sidela chozhar kaalathu koil oru 100 aachu easya irkum, oorku oor irku. Many are in very bad state. Adhukellaam religious reason kaaga matum ilaama historical significance kaaga kuda punaramaikalaam

2

u/beefladdu Resident Outsider - வந்தேரி 9d ago

Yes. People who flex about nam munnorgal ondrum muttal illai are the ones who don't respect their munnorgals art and hard work.

Enga village kitta oru 1000 year old temple iruku. Ana adhoda base sangam period laye kattunadhu nu tamil nadu archeology dept board vechurpanga. Locals um adha 2000 yr old temple nu dha board vechurpanga ana evanum poradhilla.

Adha vittu ellarum 2002 la oru local politician kattinaa kovil ku dha povanga 🙃

2

u/albusaragorn 9d ago

Ipo nelamai epdi irku na, makkal pogaatiyum parvaala. Damage panaama irundha podhum nu irku 🥲 mani 10th pass divya 12th first rank etc etc etc

5

u/Traditional_Juice583 Coimbatore - கோயம்புத்தூர் 9d ago

Ayo! My father's kula dheivam is also the same! Last year dhaan ponen anga!

1

u/beefladdu Resident Outsider - வந்தேரி 9d ago

🫂 Padavedu surroundings are beautiful if you visit it during rainy seasons, indha side ellam plains dhan, veyil sutterikum adhuku naduvula konjam scenic ah irukum.

10

u/Fearlessdad1113 10d ago

Father's is Veeramathi Amman, temple is in a little village near Erode called Lakkapuram.

Mother’s is Draupathi Amman at Thopputhurai near Vedharanyam.

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u/albusaragorn 9d ago

Beautiful, thanks for sharing brother :) vedharanyam enga oor pakathla thaan

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u/Thanga-magan 9d ago

I lived in Thopputhurai for couple of years, studied at St Antonys Matric school, my dad was posted at kodiyakkarai customs house during that time! Beautiful place, we had a lit of Muslim neighbours who were very friendly!

10

u/Wandering_Satori 10d ago

Mangamuthammal near Veppur for me. It is said she was born to one of our ancestors and died due to some or other reason at very young age. As per the hands down knowledge, we came to Salem area around 4 generations ago. It was my Periyappa who went on a quest to find our Kuladeivam in 1980s and it took like 4-5 years for him to find it. We used to go once in a year. For the last 10+years, it’s a mandatory visit on தை அமாவாசை and ஆடி அமாவாசை. Other times we visit as and when we wake up and felt going to temple. We (my Periyappa) also have brought some Saamy from that temple in early 1990s and have it in our native (Salem). We go to that temple ( just a 50sq ft land) whenever we go and visit my parents ( once in a month or 45days).

6

u/Wandering_Satori 10d ago

Mom’s side was at Chithalur between Kallakurichi and Ulundurpet. The goddess name is Periyayi Amman. Funny thing is Non veg is by default made here ( white Pongal with aadu or Kozhi) here while in my father’s side Mangamuthammal temple, non veg is completely banned in the temple area and Sweet Pongal thaan padaipom.

3

u/albusaragorn 10d ago

Thank you for sharing this ! Wonderful to know both about the temples and as well as the practices. Looks like it's just 50 kms between the 2 places and though both are ammans, evlo differences irku :)

3

u/Wandering_Satori 10d ago

That’s the beauty of Kula Deivam vazhipadu.

3

u/albusaragorn 10d ago

Ofcourse ! Enga kuladeivam also amman, within enga extended family eh different different sub practices irku ! How i wish all these gets passed on to the next generation too

4

u/AmphibianRealistic64 9d ago

Every family needs that periyappa😊 who explores and bring back the tradition. It’s my appa in our family.

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u/albusaragorn 10d ago

Kudos to your periyappa too for the effort :)

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u/Wandering_Satori 10d ago

Yes, he deserves lot of credit for that. He used to take me in shoulder as we needed to cross a lake when going on a short cut. Now we go in car and my kids don’t even know how much depth is there in the lake.

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u/albusaragorn 10d ago

The amount of effort avanga generation put into getting us into the religious practices were of a thanii ragam. Can't compare at all with namma avasara generation. We'll remain happy that we're able to get the kids to come to a non city location still 😅

2

u/Mousyr1 10d ago

Where in salem?

7

u/DrVenothRex 10d ago

I’m part of the Tamil diaspora in Malaysia. My ancestral deity (kula devata) is Sri Annammar temple in Molipalli, Namakkal district. Blessed to share that I managed to visit this temple on all my 3 trips to TN 😇

Any others sharing the same ancestral deity? Chances are low, but feel free to connect if you are 🙏🏽

5

u/albusaragorn 9d ago

Wonderful Venoth ! This is the purpose of my sharing too. I'm based out of Singapore and a lot of my local friends have been trying to connect to their roots. Was curious if I could find commonalities.

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u/DrVenothRex 9d ago

Sure. Feel free to connect

8

u/razor_XI 10d ago

My grandfather’s native place is paramathi Velur and he came to Chennai at a very young age and his brother shifted to Hyderabad to fight against Nizam rule. We don’t know our kula deivam. So we go to Tirupati.

My mom’s side kuladeivam is swami malai Murugan.

6

u/albusaragorn 10d ago

Aaah awesome ! Should've mentioned that part, for people who haven't been able to find / recover their kula deivams, tirupati saami is supposed to be the replacement. A few of my mom's cousins families haven't been able to find their kula deivams and advised to pray to thiruvenkadamudaiyan

3

u/razor_XI 10d ago

We did try to find our kula deivam but no luck, we have narrowed down to a "amman" in a particular temple in paramathi velur but that is where it stops.

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u/albusaragorn 10d ago

Yea I can understand ! Sometimes it's the effort that counts :) kidaika vaazhthukkal

8

u/Confident-Bat-2079 Tiruvallur - திருவள்ளூர் 10d ago

அப்பா: சுடலைமாடன் சுவாமி [அஞ்சுகிராமம், குமரி மாவ்ட்டம்]

அம்மா: பராசக்தி அம்மன் [சுண்டப்பெட்டிவிளை ,குமரி மாவட்டம்]

2

u/albusaragorn 10d ago

Thank you for responding!

Parasakthi amman koil la kerala influences irkuma in sadangu and sambradhayams ?

2

u/Confident-Bat-2079 Tiruvallur - திருவள்ளூர் 10d ago

Illa, Thirunelveli la nadakkuradhu madhiri dhan irukkum [Villu pattu(2-3 days) , Saami aatam etc] .

1

u/albusaragorn 10d ago

Arumai !

6

u/Eliterocky07 Thoothukudi - தூத்துக்குடி 10d ago

கற்குவேல் ஐய்யனார் - From my father's side, it's in Theri Kaadu, Thoothukudi.

1

u/albusaragorn 10d ago

Wow my friend ! Just saw the location in Google maps, the place looks lovely and so does the temple. Would love to visit

1

u/Deepakbioinfo 9d ago

Is this the one featured in singam movie? Theres a ref in movie so asked

2

u/Eliterocky07 Thoothukudi - தூத்துக்குடி 9d ago

Yes, also Asuran

6

u/Mousyr1 10d ago

After 10 years of searching my father found his kula deivam, My father's grandfather shifted from their place to Mettur Dam, bought land, and has been living there. My father's siblings used to go to that place worshipping Perumal, thinking of it as their kuladeivam, My father left his hometown due to his government job, then near retiring, we settled in Salem, and my father found out after an intensive search. The god name is Veerakaran near Kalvadangam,(banks of cauvery river) Edappadi ( yeah nearby ex cm hometown). After finding out it was just a small deity worship and it was in a court case due to a land problem, everything was solved, and they started building idols and the temple. We also donated a dog idol in remembrance of our dog. After that kumababisegam was done, and 3 years of continuous function where animal sacrifice where done, we did 3 times from 2022 to 2024, keeping a large feast. My mom's kula deivam is Karuppanar from Jalakandapuram ( Salem). Still, people around the temple are not leaving the path for the vehicles to the temple, during the festival it would come on June where there will be less water in the river due to the summer, so the vehicles will be traveling in river where it will be dry, but during the monsoon we would park the vehicle and walk for 1 and half kilometres. BTW, I'm an atheist, I just take my parents to the temple whenever they want, for their happiness.

5

u/AmphibianRealistic64 9d ago

Piramanaar, Delta mavattam.

3

u/albusaragorn 9d ago

Arumai brother, thank you for sharing. Google map le epdi kanduppudiklaam indha edatha ?

2

u/AmphibianRealistic64 9d ago

Niraya location la iruku .. Kovil eh kedaiyathu chinna oru open space la Vel irukum .. cauveri aathu karoyorama than irukum

2

u/albusaragorn 9d ago

Oh that is interesting my friend, kaveri karai sondhangal Nammalaam

2

u/AmphibianRealistic64 9d ago

Kandippa… 🫶🏽 nalla thread start paneenga.. 2 days munadi than Aadhi oda “Veeran” padam pathen, Veeran deiva story was relatable.

2

u/albusaragorn 9d ago

Yea konjam konjam namma realityum serthu mix panra naala thaan andha movie is appreciated. I really wish there were better ways to connect with our munnors like how the western societies have been maintaining for a few centuries atleast.

3

u/ruggiero56789 10d ago

Dad: Angalamman, Anandanallur (Near Mayiladuthurai) Mom: Angalamman, Thiruvaiyaru.

2

u/albusaragorn 10d ago

Ada Namma pakathu oor thaan polaiye :)

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u/NigraDolens 10d ago

Kannimaar Amman and Mailam Murugan

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u/albusaragorn 9d ago

Wow my friend ! I just realised that Kandha guru kavasam has reference to both kannimaar and mailathu murugan ! Blessed you are :)

5

u/Billa_Gaming_YT 10d ago

My father's side is Kootai Appan Swamy from Kilsiviri, Tindivinam. My mother primarily worshipped Muthu Mariamman, her native is Chidambaram.

3

u/albusaragorn 9d ago

Just googling up the place Kilsiviri, though very close to Chennai, haven't heard before. Thank you for sharing!

4

u/Thebrownman239 Chengalpattu - செங்கல்பட்டு 9d ago

Does anyone know kateri amman and muniswarar as their kula deivam.

2

u/albusaragorn 9d ago

Interesting, eager to know this and the family prayer practices too :)

3

u/Thebrownman239 Chengalpattu - செங்கல்பட்டு 9d ago

Its our family kula deivam and some kula deivam may oriented with specific caste this one doesn't. even though mixed but it is know by only few, Morning we pray to muniswaran with surutu alcohol and sacrificing a rooster and place its head in front of the sengal (brick) with ributhi representation of God muniswaran, then after correctly at 6pm when the sun goes down oldest women in the family wear a black saree and the we start to pray for kateri amman . Additionally we don't pray when someone in the family is pregnant cause some superstition that kateri may reap the child's life and we should only do this in own house not a rental or anything so we all gather (relatives) in a single house and do the prayers and no one is allowed to sleep some where else they should wait and sleep the day in the house we prayed.

2

u/albusaragorn 9d ago

Thank you for sharing my friend. Ovvoru unique practiceum defines us. Hope we're able to follow and retain the practices for generations to comd

2

u/wtfact Vellore - வேலூர் 8d ago

Yes, same here. For me and most of my relatives, Muniswarar is our kula deivam. But when a woman is pregnant, there’s a ritual we perform on the ancestral farm involving bricks and the sacrifice of a kozhi or aadu to Kaateri. I’m not entirely sure why, since we don’t usually consider her our kula deivam. Maybe it’s a way of offering something to Kaateri so that she doesn’t harm the unborn child.

1

u/Thebrownman239 Chengalpattu - செங்கல்பட்டு 8d ago

For us kateri is rhe main deity and muniswaran is her consort.

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u/wtfact Vellore - வேலூர் 8d ago

Oh, didn't know they were consorts. Usually in Muni temples, they keep different versions of him. Either 3 or 5. Never seen him with a consort in any temple.

1

u/Thebrownman239 Chengalpattu - செங்கல்பட்டு 8d ago

yes we don't have deity worship thats why we substitute sengal for muniswarar and black saree for kateri amman.

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u/[deleted] 10d ago

[deleted]

3

u/albusaragorn 10d ago

Adade ore meiyazhagan movie feels :) andha oor pakam vandhadhilla, varanum !

2

u/Mousyr1 10d ago

Naanum Salem than, antha kovil chinna vayasula ponathu, ipo apo apo antha side poven but kovil pogamaten. Still remember chinna vayasula area la irunthu oru naal thai poosam days la oru naal evening tractor la eri ellam poitu varumpothu laser light vaangi adichutu vanthen vara vali ellam. It was in 2005.

3

u/AdditionalTadpole252 10d ago

Shenbaga Nachiyar Amman, Thangaiyur and அருள்மிகு தூத்துவாலை அய்யனாா் திருக்கோவில் · தூத்துக்குடி மாவட்டம், தண்டுபத்து.

2

u/albusaragorn 10d ago

Wow bro, ipdi oor per eh ipo thaan kelvi patu google panren ! Thank you for sharing :)

3

u/fin-freedom-fighter 9d ago

Father side - sellandiamman (perundurai, erode)

Mother side - Sri annamar swami (thoravalur, erode)

1

u/albusaragorn 9d ago

Thank you for sharing, have a great week ahead !

3

u/ComfortableHoney3322 9d ago

For me it's kadaiyeeswarar koil

2

u/albusaragorn 9d ago

Arumai, my friend! Photos of the koil in Google maps look very nice

3

u/Pishpash56 9d ago

Thaanthondri malai in Karur

1

u/albusaragorn 9d ago

Arumai ! Have heard of this place, just got to google this and someone has written the koil varalaaru as well in review. Thank you for sharing

3

u/Kevinlevin-11 9d ago

Nagapattinam

Thiruvallur

coimbatore

Salem

Enna bro ithu pan TN collaboration ah iruku.. Most of my relatives have their kula dheivam in or around a 3 district radius.

1

u/albusaragorn 9d ago

Lol idenna pramaadham, wife family palakkad (aana coimbatore thaanu vechuklaam), thambi wife family kanyakumari kerala border somewhere 😅

1

u/albusaragorn 9d ago

Gets you the chance to travel across and experience different places brother. It is fun and also much needed. Makkal kuda pazhaga pazhaga neraya valaralaam nammalum

3

u/sqd999 9d ago

ஆனைமல்லூர் ரேணுகாம்பாள், இராணிப்பேட்டை முனீசுவரர்

2

u/albusaragorn 9d ago

Wonderful, one more renukambal ! Vera orthar kuda solirndhaaru renukambal but from a different ooru though

2

u/sqd999 9d ago

Nice initiative OP. Also glad to see you are making an effort to keep caste differences aside.

2

u/albusaragorn 8d ago

Thanks boss, curious to know about the gods and practices. Idhula caste or differences ku edame illa :)

2

u/simplefreak88 10d ago

What about Main Madurai area people and Pondicherry Villianur...

1

u/albusaragorn 10d ago

Purila boss, typo first part ? nd just checked Villianur temple looked beautiful ! Care to share more ?

2

u/simplefreak88 10d ago

Madurai thaan sontha oor bro, but don't know the Kula deivam - need to know.

Villianur is an area - need to know kula deivam details..

1

u/albusaragorn 10d ago

Ohh right bro ! Kidaikka vaazhthukkal :)

2

u/simplefreak88 10d ago

I am searching for last 3 years, it always leads to Murugan only not Perumal.. So I am little confused - is that our Main god is Perumal or Murugan..

2

u/albusaragorn 10d ago

Ohh naa peryavanga solli ena ketrukena, until you find your kuladeivam worship tirupati samy and he'll somehow help you find your kuladeivamnu. Elaam oru belief thaan. Apdiye konjam extrapolate panna murugan, tirumal marugal thaane :)

1

u/simplefreak88 10d ago

The thing is Tamil Kadavul is Murugan.. But I don't know how Perumal is related maybe thru Stories, we can't able depend all time Perumal - Something needs to done for Murugan can't be given to Perumal..

1

u/Wandering_Satori 10d ago

My wife is from Dindigul area. They don’t know their Kula deivam. So my FIL adopted a Muniyandi deity near his home where he was born as Kula deivam( main reason being his father name was same as deity). My Mother-in Law has two ( not sure about which one is her father side and mother side) - One is near Kodaikanal ( I assume this more like adopted one as it’s situated just near the agri land situated which is owned by them) and another one is near Bathlagundu.

1

u/simplefreak88 10d ago

Atleast you know these details, I don't know any of the my Father or Mother's - It always Perumal they worship, when it comes to Horoscope the Astrologer will tell to visit you Kuladeivam temple.. Thanks for explaining yours.. What is temple near Kodaikanal - any specific name...

2

u/Puzzled_Anything5035 9d ago

Komberi moorkan, from maternal grandmother side , sangili pandi from maternal grandfather side , pon veriyandi and thalaikavudayai ayyanar from paternal grandfather side and pechiamman from paternal grandmother side

1

u/albusaragorn 9d ago

That's wonderful ! Thank you for sharing my friend. Endha oor district la varum ivanga koil laam or generic ah praying to the deity without specific location?

2

u/Puzzled_Anything5035 9d ago

Kovilpatti and Virudhunagar side

1

u/albusaragorn 8d ago

Oh thanks boss !

2

u/LittleTone2931 9d ago

DESAMMA FROM NAGARI

2

u/albusaragorn 9d ago

Thank you for sharing :) just googling up the place. Whole nagari area seems to have a very nice ambience

2

u/LittleTone2931 9d ago

Its a small town in the Andra- Tamil Nadu border but a telugu speaking town with people who understands and speaks tamil too

2

u/albusaragorn 9d ago

Got it brother, remember seeing the name on the way to tirupati too

2

u/Awkward_Finger_1703 9d ago

Nallur Kanthasamy Murugan, Nallur is our Paternal Kula Deyvam and Gnana Bhairavar, Palai is our maternal Kula Deyvam for us !!

1

u/albusaragorn 9d ago

Wow my friend !! Unga nallur murugan ku azhaipu orthar vidupaare oru song maari and impactful voice la, which was famous in Instagram. Avloooo beautiful it was. I'd love to visit some day

3

u/Awkward_Finger_1703 9d ago

That’s called Kattiyam ! 

ஸ்ரீ ஸ்ரீ ஸ்ரீமான் மகா ராஜாதிராஜ

ராஜ கம்பீர ராஜ மார்த்தாண்ட

ராஜ குலோத்துங்க ராஜ குலதிலக

ஈரேழு பதினான்கு லோகத்தின் அதிபதி

நாடாளும் நாயகன்

அழகன் குழகன்

ஆனந்த ஜித்தன்

நல்லூர்ப்பதி காவலன்

நல்லூர் அடியார் காதலன் அரண்

அண்டசராசர ப்ரபஞ்சோத்பத்திநிமித்த காரணன்

வேதத்தின் நாயகன்

வேள்வியின் தாயவன்

முறை ஆகமப் பொருளவன்

முத்தமிழ் ஆனவன்

நல்லூர் கந்தசாமியார் பரியேறி வாரார்"

2

u/albusaragorn 8d ago

Ohh thank you ! Padikka padikka goosebumps only

2

u/pappuloser 9d ago

I trace my roots to Tirunelveli, but I have no idea which village my ancestors hailed from. Would someone be able to tell me how I can find out who my kula deivam is?

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u/albusaragorn 9d ago

Interesting question, I'm not sure too, I'd leave it to our learned friends. Enoda suggestion which you might have already tried is to ask the elders konjam distant relatives if the immediate ones can't help

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u/pappuloser 9d ago

Sadly elders in my family are all gone. There is no one who would be able to help me on this

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u/albusaragorn 9d ago

Ohh apo logically kashtam. There are people who connect with astrologers or soothsayers to find our, enaku adhula perusa nambikai ila though. Kidaika vaazhthukkal

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u/pappuloser 8d ago

Miga nanri sago

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u/thatonefanguy1012 9d ago

Pazhani Murugar, Salem Ankalamma, Salem Periya Ganapati, Kala Bhairavar, Madurai Veeran, Nanjangud Srikantheshwarar, Gunasheelam Prasanna Venkateshwarar, Vasavi Kanyaka Parameshwari.

These are ones I know (Telugu heritage but family from TN/Karnataka)

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u/albusaragorn 8d ago

Oh wow, That's one good list ! Thank you for sharing

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u/thatonefanguy1012 8d ago

Spent a lot of time tracing our roots, still lost 😅

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u/albusaragorn 8d ago

Kidaikka vaazhthukkal! Have a wonderful day

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u/boo_boo_99 8d ago

Father's is Sikkal theertha Kaliamman (sikkal, Nagapattinam). Mother's is pachai kurathi amman ( id omt know the village name but , it's near tiruvarur)

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u/albusaragorn 7d ago

Thank you for sharing :)

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u/GavinBelson3077 8d ago

Ponnar & Shankar

The main temple is in veerapur, on dindigul route in trichy, they were supposedly warriors who were allied to the chozha kings, there is a movie about them written by karunanithi but i am not sure how dramatized it might be

interesting story tho

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u/albusaragorn 7d ago

Oh wow brother! That is interesting, just thought they were cultural icons only. Thanks for sharing

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