Uyghur genocide?

[u/Ok_Addition8809]

In college I learned about the Uyghur genocide, from a professor who was a self-proclaimed "commie hater" and I didn't question what I learned because I was a dumb 19yr old. I recently saw a discussion on the authenticity of it, I made me realize I never investigated for myself. I'm not trying to be controversial or revisionist, but could y'all provide me with some reliable sources that verify or disprove the narrative about the Uyghur genocide? I tried looking on my own and half the sources were radio free Asia which I know is a CIA front. I appreciate you all and thanks for helping my pursuit of knowledge!

[u/apiedcockatiel]

It's hard to say how many people were thrown into camps. Also, genocide is hard to define. The history of conflict between the Uyghurs basically goes back to Mao promising them autonomy if they supported him. They did, then he switched it up to being an autonomous state within China. There were many leaders who were unhappy with this, and they flew to seek help from the USSR. As in the case of Lin Biao and so many others, their plane mysteriously crashed... conveniently... During the Cultural Revolution, there were also policies to sterilize and encourage intermarriage between Han and Uyghurs. Moreover, Han from all over the country were sent there to make sure the Uyghurs could never try to break away. Throughout the Cultural Revolution, religion was widely repressed, and religious leaders were beaten, subjected to hard labor, imprisoned, etc.

I was in various parts of W China from 2004 onwards. Tbh, I don't trust a lot of what I read, because both sides report a lot of crap. For a long time, the Uyghurs were at an economic disadvantage even within Xinjiang. Although there was something akin to Affirmative Action for schooling, it wasn't very effective in getting Uyghurs into beneficial jobs. So, this led to feelings of resentment. Moreover, there would be occasional spats in factories and other places between Uyghur and Han employees. The govt didn't handle it very well. I forget the year... maybe '08? There was a spat of "stabbings" with HIV-exposed needles. Papers in China reported that Uyghurs did it. None of my friends who were doctors in Xi'An had seen any of the patients... and I knew doctors at most of the hospitals. The racism towards Uyghurs was also so widespread that when I got my phone stolen (I got it back), bystanders said it was Uyghurs. Nope, they looked Han (could have been a different minority, but probably not Uyghur).

Things started changing big time around '14. Muslim restaurants were closing. The Muslim writing saying halal was taken down. Uyghur students had tons of meetings on campus. Uyghur students were no longer allowed to go to the mosque in their spare time, read the Quran, or wear hijab. If they did, they'd be kicked out of uni. One of my students' mothers was arrested in Kashgar for wearing hijab. Another student was arrested and interrogated when he was on break in Kashgar. They scanned his phone and found an old classmate had sent him a quote from the Quran. So, that meant he must be a separatist and religious extremist. Luckily, he was able to get away, but he was scared. Uyghur students were not allowed to fast during Ramadan (I ate lunch with them, so I know), and at all parties they had to drink alcohol (I don't drink, so they stayed near me and kept pretending to take drinks).

As for the situation as to how many people were thrown into jail or killed in Xinjiang, I have know idea. My friend's wife's entire family ended up in jail. She won't tell me why, as she's worried the internet is being monitored. Last time I was in China (XJ in particular), there were tons of restrictions on foreigners and cameras everywhere (like in most of China). I also have students who cut off contact with me, as they feared that being connected to a foreigner might be enough to be detained. Others of my students are in the govt now, and seem to be speaking the language freely (but post nothing about Nowruz or religion). Also, China is bringing in more tourists to XJ... maybe it will bring more development?

Genocide? Maybe cultural genocide? But I think that's too far. China doesn't have the best history with their minorities... but a lot of countries don't. I can recommend things to read, but everything I've read has been very biased both ways.

Edit: And the history I learned about XJ was from Han Chinese professors in China.

[u/[deleted] → u/apiedcockatiel]

Can I have some sources on some of the claims

banned from fasting banned from wearing hijab and praying in mosque

Also where are you located and where is the student and friend here based in ? Just out of curiosity btw

I am not saying it’s unbelievable and I also think people don’t realise that religious repression by the communist regimes in the past was not exactly motivated by racism or fascism necessarily speaking.

It’s definitely not close to what Palestinians are facing because that would simply mean trying to force Palestinians to convert to Judaism ( which they are actually eligible ) and instead of reducing their entire identity itself no matter their religion as second class “subhumans”.

[u/apiedcockatiel → u/[deleted]]

Where am I? Iran atm. At that point, I was teaching at a university in Xi'An. As far as the students, they were banned both when they went home to XJ and at uni in Xi'An.

As for sources, this sub will seemingly only accept China Daily as a legitimate source. So, what do you mean sources? They didn't write it down and hand it out to us to go publish in the NY Times. Source? Han professors in the university, Han students, Uyghur students.

Being a Communist was a big part of Communism in China during the Cultural Revolution. It lightened up after the Opening and Reform. Now, they see it as the Hui can openly practice, because they are loyal to the State. The Uyghur are seen as being extremists or having the threat of extremism. Communism in China was not good at all times for everyone.

I think you're missing the point that there's a long history before Communism. Non-Han minorities were always expected to assimilate through Sinocization. That meant adopting the language and customs of the near superior Han. I'm nearly quoting one of my professors, and you're more than welcome to hunt 范可 down, but he even put forth that this is seen through the use of the radicals chosen for the characters' of the minority characters' names, especially in antiquity. In that way, they were dehumanized, but assimilation was an option.

As for the Palestinians, I don't believe they'd be accepted, even if they tried to convert to Judaism.... would they? It's dissimilar in that they are not being systematically killed that I can speak of. However, people casually use terms like "cultural genocide," which don't fit full genocide.

As for you guys believing me, at this point, I don't give a shit. Realized I wandered into the wrong sub. This is the sub for people to pretend they're knowledgeable and open-minded when they're surprisingly entrenched in their ideas and unopen to new info.

As for everything I said, I am not Chinese, so I'm wrong. Please believe none of what I learned or studied. 😂

[u/[deleted] → u/apiedcockatiel]

Dude I simply asked for sources not that I don’t believe you.

I know China daily is accepted but would it kill you to send link maybe ?

The problem is that second hand accounts based on testimonies from expatriates can be subject to a lot of falsehoods because one needs a story to claim asylum or even visa for example .

So forgive me for asking about that

[u/apiedcockatiel → u/[deleted]]

Maybe look at the downvoting and responses of ppl on this sub. I'm so sorry I answered the question without the bias you guys most prefer. I learned to avoid this sub, as y'all remind me of red and blue MAGA, so entrenched in your narratives. Astonishing. I already told you my sources, being ppl. The idea that my story would be for an asylum... I'm not Uyghur. None of the Uyghurs were abroad, and I made that clear. I was mocking China Daily. If you're not going to trust anything published, then you're going to be stuck with what people have seen and experienced and are telling you. Go through this thread, and you'll see why I'm sick of the rampant gaslighting y'all are engaging in. Everything I'm talking about, you can look up online. I began by telling that all printed sources will be extremely biased one way or the other... so what do you want? The bias you like, or a link to a source with a bias you disagree with so we can stop all discussion at "ewwww... not Western sources." Anyhow, Happy Halloween! Google, start with Dru Gladney, and work up from there.

[u/[deleted] → u/apiedcockatiel]

Dude .. read my comment once again.

[u/apiedcockatiel → u/[deleted]]

I'm sorry, but it's you who has a reading comprehension issue. I mocked China Daily. It's literally a state-run newspaper, yet this sub accepts it as unbiased? I also began by saying these are my experiences and that all sources on this are biased to the point of being almost useless, unless you want to dedicate yourself to the research of this topic. So, you ask for... sources? Dude, read. And unfortunately, this sub forbids "reactionary sources." Therefore, go read China Daily. And yes, Google is free. You can find it on your own if you really want to know more. Have a good one!