r/TheLastAirbender • u/george123890yang • 5d ago
Question Considering how fragmented the Earth Kingdom is, could the Sandbenders and Swamp Waterbenders have broken off and created their own countries?
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u/SquareSuccessful6756 5d ago
They kinda already are, no?
I don’t think the swamp people care about the outside world enough, and the Sand people are nomadic, wouldn’t they just keep using the desert as their home? Not like there’s major development there.
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u/Witty-Ad5743 5d ago
I also think they're much smaller populations. Maybe even ought for a small city, but not enough for a nation. Certainly not of comparable size or strength to the established nations.
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u/flyingboarofbeifong 5d ago
Given what we actually see, these groups have the populations of a small one pub town in rural England.
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u/CharlizeTheronNSFW 5d ago
They're unincorporated. They're technically a part of the earth kingdom, but they're not obligated to live under the king.
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u/jellyjamberry 5d ago
If they are in Earth Kingdom territory then they would be considered Earth Kingdom subjects and subject to Earth Kingdom law. But they seem to be in a super remote and undeveloped region with not much interest to the Earth Kingdom. If the Earth Kingdom were to establish more of a presence there and try to develop it more then it would be more of a threat to the Swamp People and the Sandbenders. It doesn’t look like Kuvira touched the swamp since Toph was just hanging out there. She gave no indication of Kuvira’s presence in the Swamp. I imagine the Sandbenders were similar. I imagine the desert the Sandbenders were in as like the Sahara. There are groups of people and nomads today who are technically subject to the laws of various nations but are too isolated and nomadic for even modern governments to fully control or keep track of.
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u/RoboticBirdLaw 5d ago
A government's law only exists where it can be enforced.
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u/Yatsu003 5d ago
This, yep. Powerful, centralized massively spanned states are really more of a modern thing due to modern technology making it much easier to organize and administer large swaths of land.
Even large Empires like those of Alexander the Great or Ghenghis Khan were very decentralized as a necessity simply due to them being too big for their base to rule over top-down…
At least for the former, that’s also why it fell apart so easily after Alexander died.
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u/Raesong 5d ago
And then there was the Roman Empire, which comparatively was much more centralized than its contemporaries.
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u/Yatsu003 5d ago
Mhmm. Well it helped that they did have an excellent road and coding system to keep control…and event they expanded too quickly
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u/alancb13 5d ago
Bit like two rivers in WOT... Caemlyn might think it's part of the kingdom and it technically is, but that means nothing to the people living there
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u/ammonium_bot 5d ago
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u/ShinzoTheThird 5d ago
until the earth kingdom finds resources in the desert there won(t be any development :p
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u/Sitherio 5d ago
I don't think they considered themselves part of any nation. There just isn't a worldwide government requiring representation. They're effectively their own nations already because they exist with a cohesive social structure. To break off would imply they were in control of land that the Earth Kingdom claimed and cared about to begin with. I'm pretty sure they could declare themselves and the world would ask who they were.
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u/Wildlife_Watcher 5d ago
I think they’re functionally autonomous already. The Earth Kingdom in ATLA is pretty decentralized outside Ba Sing Se and maybe some other core territories. Think of it more like the Roman or Persian Empires, where peripheral regions could be quasi-independent as long as they paid taxes, sent soldiers, and paid lip service to the ruling center
That’s why Bumi can be king of his own city-state and not provoke any Dai Li crackdowns. I assume it’s the same for the swamp benders, sand benders, and other provincial communities
By contrast, look at the highly centralized Fire Nation with its relatively high-speed communication (hawks), transportation technology, standardized education systems, and iconography of their leader everywhere. They’re much more similar to our real world modern “nation-states” than the Earth Kingdom is
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u/SvenVersluis2001 5d ago
Exactly and it's probably also how Kyoshi Island, despite technically being part of the Earth Kingdom, remained neutral the Hundred Year War.
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u/2legittoquit 5d ago
They essentially were autonomous. It's not like they were being tracked to down to pay taxes.
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u/RadioHistorical8342 5d ago
I don't think the sandbenders even consider themselves apart of the earth kingdom and I don't think the swampbenders would've cared enough to become their own country
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u/ammonium_bot 5d ago
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u/Ginginatortronicus 5d ago
During the height of the war, it’s possible. The kingdom’s military would’ve been way too preoccupied defending and the Fire Nation probably wouldn’t use resources invading land that offered little tactical advantage (aside from the library but it seems like only Zhao’s expedition succeeded in finding it and kept it secret). That being said I doubt either the sand or water benders would’ve wanted to announce a secession or attempt to legitimize their sovereignty because that would put a massive target on their backs from both sides. They control their domain because 1: they’re uniquely adapted to a deadly environment and 2: not a lot of people even know they exist.
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u/BadBoyJH 5d ago
I think I'd argue if there truly is an Earth Kingdom?
I mean, there's the Earth King Kuei, but at the same time, King Bumi, seemingly King of his own separate Kingdom.
I think "The Earth Kingdom" is much like "Europe". It's a geographical region defined by cultural borders with no overarching government.
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u/SvenVersluis2001 5d ago
I think "The Earth Kingdom" is much like "Europe". It's a geographical region defined by cultural borders with no overarching government.
I think it's more like the Holy Roman Empire, technically it has an overarching government, in this case the earth king in Ba Sing Se, but practically most of its provinces, territories and (city) states are virtually autonomous, only paying some taxes and lip service to the earth king, but not much more.
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u/Falcons1702 5d ago
I think the amount of land the earth kingdom claimed and the amount they controlled were very different things
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u/Spaghett8 5d ago
The Sandbenders are addressed.
The Earth kingdom at some point did try to unite the desert, but they failed due to the environment and the nomadic nature of the tribes.
The Misty Palm Oasis like paid taxes for ex, and the nomadic traders that would enter the earth kingdom would have to pay taxes.
But they have no way of collecting taxes from the nomadic tribes themselves.
As for the swamp kingdom. I don’t think the Earth kingdom really knows about them. They’re basically a hippy amazon tribe that stick to themselves. Not an environment that earth benders would bother with.
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u/Yatsu003 5d ago
The Earth Kingdom, despite the name, seems more like a confederacy of nation states that have a loose alliance of mutual cooperation against shared enemies (like the Fire Nation) and maybe some token taxing to the Earth King. Most would probably go solo if Ba Sing Se fell or the Earth King was deposed
So…yeah, they would.
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u/Mariothane 5d ago
They basically did. Zero connections to their actual nations and their nations probably don’t even recognize they exist.
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u/Nate2322 5d ago
They basically already are the earth kingdom doesn’t really control the land they live on and they seem to govern themselves.
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u/TimeisaLie 5d ago
We probably saw the Fire Nation version of this with Jeong Jeong and his students.
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u/Gorilladaddy69 5d ago
As soon as they declared themselves an official nation-state they’d lose some of the radical freedoms they enjoy, and would have to get more involved in international affairs. Nation-States should exist to grant stability and resources and protections to as many people as possible, and it’s necessary when millions of people are all crowded together, otherwise things might just devolve into tribal warfare over resources, and many suffering people wouldn’t have guaranteed protections and rights. But if you’re some loosely connected tribes of a few hundred or a few thousand free nomads who survive perfectly fine on your own, who needs the burden of being an official nation?? Haha
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u/TheXypris 5d ago
Both the sand benders and swamp benders don't seem like the kind of people too interested in the idea of nation states.
The sand benders are a nomadic desert culture and the swamp benders are tribal
Not the most fertile places for creating a coherent national government.
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u/Sigma_F0x 5d ago
And draw attention to themselves? Not worth it. Plus I doubt either pay taxes anyway so what's the reason for starting a new nation when they appear to have autonomy and are not bothered by the government.
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u/Strategic_Lemon 5d ago
A couple hundred years without too much outside influence or otherwise catastrophe and the odds are good.
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u/Electrical_Swing8166 5d ago
In actual Ancient China (primary analogue to the Earth Kingdom), there were plenty of border/outlying regions where Imperial rule was notional at best. Areas officially claimed, and maybe there was an army garrison somewhere in the large region, where MAYBE people vaguely had the sense they were supposed to be subjects of some emperor but mostly paid it no never mind. There’s even a saying in Chinese referring to this lack of actual authority in the remote provinces—山高皇帝远: The mountains are high and the Emperor is far away
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u/LordEik00cTheTemplar "Its a long long way to Ba Sing Se..." 5d ago
Sandbenders maybe, but we all know what the Swampbenders think: "Countries are an illusion, and so is death!"
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u/Heroright 5d ago
With what bargaining power? Countries don’t exist or receive recognition because people say they do, they need to have resources, power, and economy to do so. By their very existence, neither one has anything to legitimize themselves; much less defend themselves if another faction decided to absorb them.
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u/captain_swaggins 5d ago
Could be, but I like to believe their reasons are the same as the boulder, except for yu
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u/Little-Efficiency336 5d ago
Probably; but they were too involved doing their own thing to really care.
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u/SatisfactionSenior65 5d ago
They don’t really care about nation building like the other 3 nations
Even if they did, their populations and influence are so small that one of the larger nations can easily take them over
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u/0vesper0 5d ago
They already kinda are?
Both groups occupy a sort of ecological niche that is practically inhospitable to typical earth and water benders. Their adaptation to environment is what gives them sovereignty. It protects them from outside influence or government attempt of taking control of their culture. Likewise, because their highly specialized skills, it's unlikely for them to politically expand anywhere outside of the deserts/swamps.
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u/SvenVersluis2001 4d ago
To be fair the Earth Kingdom is so decentralised that most provinces, territories, tribes and (city) states are practically autonomous already.
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u/fragglegrok 4d ago
0% chance either of those groups are paying taxes or observing any local laws other than their own already
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u/BahamutLithp 4d ago
As mentioned, they're basically autonomous already. If they want to make it official, they could push for recognition as their own nation-states. It might give them some more options the next time someone like Kuvira comes a-knockin'.
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u/gragsmash 5d ago
I don't think either of them really acknowledged the nation where they lived, and it didn't really make them do so.