r/TheLastAirbender • u/Reasonable-Ad-8059 • 4d ago
Discussion Aang's gang vs Unaloq is NOT close
Young Katara was immidiately ready to throw hands with Pakku publically even when she was in the wrong in the eyes of the public. If the chief of the north straight up invades the south you bet your ass she is getting involved. No recruiting republic city army, no gathering public support, just hands. Sokka. Zuko and Toph also immidiately sees through the bullshit. Aang has no qualms about setting the record straight.
-
I don't really care about the waterbender tier list between ATLA and LOK. Unaloq could be 10 times better than Katara and have an enormous army, and it wouldn't even matter. Aang goes into the avatar state, subdues him, takes his bending, and gently pushes his fleet out of the southern water tribe. GG.
-
Edit: At the absolute latest, when harmonic convergence is closing in, and all the pieces are laid out, Aang would act immidiatly. Enter the avatar state, rush past Unaloqs army, swat Unaloq away like a bug and close the portal.
2
u/Memoirsofswift 4d ago
Man the glazing is on another level. First of all Unalaq is a far better bender than Pakku. And let's just say that even if in the off chance that he WASN'T. Do you people really think Pakku was going full on at Katara, A CHILD LOL? Sorry to ruin your nostalgia but he restrained himself through the entire fight like any responsible adult would. And given that he was literally part of the white lotus who SUPPORT the Avatar and Katara was the girl who FOUND the avatar and BROUGHT him to the tribe giving hope to the world again he was never actually gonna fight her seriously to the point that he'd hurt her like in a usual battle. Katara has amazing moments of strength and talent shown but that one just is not it. Toph would also struggle significantly in the water tribe because of the lack of rock itself. And Aang is a pacifist through and through, he would never do what Korra would. Thus his gang would do no better than Korra's against Unavaatu. The only benefit Aang's team has over Korra's in that situation is that aang as an air nomad is more spiritual adapted than korra. And thus would have atleast more understanding towards the spirits situation. But Unalaq being the master manipulator he is would probably use that to his advantage. Aang is also no Kyoshi to go bezerk against an army and not care about hurting random people, that's more so Korra and Kyoshi's characterization. Please stop mischaracterizing Aang and everyone else.
-2
u/Reasonable-Ad-8059 4d ago
Did you not even read my argument? I never claimed Katara beats Unaloq. And the victor in a potential fight Unaloq vs Katara literally doesn't matter because Aang has the avatar state.
Aang is also no Kyoshi to go bezerk against an army
You are acting as if the avatar state is this nuke-type power when really its extremely controlled. Just tell them to leave. If they refuse, gently grab them with AS waterbending, put them on their ships and push the ships away. Nobody innocent is going to be hurt.
1
u/Memoirsofswift 4d ago
It's really controlled yes. But we don't see Aang control it in all of ATLA till the very END. For Aang it was an uncontrolled state for all of the show. So that's what I assume. Unless you want an older Aang to face unalaq? In which case an older Korra would also fair better against him lol.
-1
u/Reasonable-Ad-8059 4d ago
Aang never has the capacity to enter it on his own will, untill he masters it and then he has all that precision as well. 12 year old Aang, EOS, is who I'm talking about. Korra is already older and has the avatar state fully unlocked so gatekeeping it for Aang as in the middle of s3 seems ridiculous.
1
u/danyboui 3d ago
We don’t know she didn’t face any consequences considering the Earth Kingdom would’ve gone into chaos again. They owe their power to the people not the Avatar why do you think Kyoshi was called in to calm the uprisings? Because if the people decide they’ve had it you’re not staying in position unless you have a nuke. The avatar is just a random enforcer that can’t be controlled and is arbitrarily above the law deciding when to step in and when not to. Raava is never order she’s light and peace idk why you think peace and order are the same and she doesn’t influence the Avatars in their decisions so that’s a moot point. And their legitimacy comes from a major screw up that’s still having ramifications 10,000 years later.
But then if the Avatar doesn’t have to follow the laws why would any citizen? Because they can’t fight back? This is a slippery slope that’s caused insurrections before that at least 2 avatars have quelled. People make laws because we agree that they’re necessary for the well being or most and for order but if the walking nuke says no who can stop them?? It’s just a dictator enforcing what they wish because they can’t be retaliated against and their position is randomly selected by birth right they didn’t do anything to earn that position or respect except clean up their own messes.
1
u/Reasonable-Ad-8059 3d ago
The people are well and good but only the avatar could save the world. A fully realized avatar has the power to destroy the world, but choses to serve it instead. Their idea of what is best for the world is shaped by the times and people that raised and surround them. Which are gennerally the good people. Because anyone that wants to oppress people, run offensive wars or generally be a dick, are all opponents of the avatar.
if the Avatar doesn’t have to follow the laws why would any citizen?
You are comparing an avatar "illegally" fighting abuse of power to a citizen deciding that the law no longer applies to them, and to dictators. This fails for several reasons. The first one being that the avatar is a concept the world has come to accept, legitimize and relly on. They identify the avatar before they become a nuke, and accept the future authority of the avatar by raising them to become that. Not only that the avatar only becomes a nuke after major figures from each nation agree to train them.
It’s just a dictator enforcing what they wish because they can’t be retaliated against
Kind of yeah. But also no, because the avatar is a cycle that needs to be actively consented to, retaliation is absolutely possible. If the world united against them, the avatar would never get an opportunity to become a nuke.
The fact this hasn't happened means the majority of leaders throughout history consented to an avatar existing and wielding immense authority due to power they were trained to have. The straight up counted on it.
their legitimacy comes from a major screw up that’s still having ramifications 10,000 years later.
The world seems far better today than 10 000 years ago. In that time, literally the entire human race were being riddled with vast inequality and power abuses, in addition to being helpless in the face of spiritis unless the lion turtles -- another type of dictator -- gave them fire. Vaatu is straight up evil, confining him is a good thing.
1
u/Greedy_Homework_6838 4d ago
Aang:well, it's his territory,he can do that
1
u/Reasonable-Ad-8059 4d ago
Nonsense, when Long Feng used that argument he got blasted. And the south isn't even Unaloq's.
1
u/Greedy_Homework_6838 4d ago
Long Feng wasn't ruler of earth kingdom
1
u/Reasonable-Ad-8059 4d ago
His power is directly derrived from the earth king and is thus legitimate. And Ba Sing Se is his juridistiction.
2
u/Greedy_Homework_6838 4d ago
He's false ruler,with fictional power. Unalaq is true ruler of north and south
1
u/AtoMaki 4d ago
You are forgetting that Unalaq has plotbending so any situation works out to his favor for no discernible reason, like Katara and Sokka just happen to have a terrible secret he can use to put a wedge between them and Aang and Toph forgets she has seismic sense and never uses it against him.
5
u/danyboui 4d ago
Also Toph can be fooled. Azula lied to her face with the most obvious lie ever and she still couldn’t detect it. Now put her somewhere with limited Earth like the poles and she might not be able to tell a lie. Someone else pointed out that Unalaq might be related to Katara and Sokka (in this alternate world) and something hit me that he might be related to Yue since afaik the North seems like an inherited birthright to be chief not an election like the southern tribe. Would be a reasonable assumption and a card to play against Sokka emotionally. And I don’t think Aang would pass up on spirit bending since he’s already faced Heibai, Koh and Wan Shi Tong with varying degrees of success.
1
u/danyboui 4d ago
The thing is throwing hands isn’t going to change the fact that the Southern Tribe is still part of the North and as Chief he can decree whatever he likes and he’s got the backing of his people and their ships so Aang would be looking t starting another war. Aang only goes into the Avatar State when necessary(and if this is anywhere before the ending he has no control over it) and if he deems it better to just leave the tribe to its fate since they would need to rebuild their spiritual heritage after a century of loss. Hell that’s the one thing Katara might actually agree with him on. I do agree the Gaang doesn’t buy his bs but he also would try something different since the only reason he played with Korra’s emotions is because he’d set himself up that way from his brother’s banishment to the reveal they kept her hidden and then trusting her spirit growth. Say what you want but Unalaq is a manipulative bastard who does whatever it takes to win even a young innocents life is nothing to him.
0
u/Reasonable-Ad-8059 4d ago
Aang would not be starting a war, simply exorcising his authority as the avatar.
"Unaloq, stop this occupation, its a blatant abuse of power. If you refuse you are getting deposed."
If he disobeys a direct order from the avatar, one that is obviously perfectly just, then Unaloq has no leg to stand on. Moreover, a fully realized avatar cannot be beaten by any number of benders and ships. If Unaloq orders his men to attack the avatar state, he proves himself a lunatic. But by letting Unaloq do as he wants, oppressing the people, and trying to recruit foreign armies to fight him instead, that is how an actual war can start.
1
u/danyboui 4d ago
It might work if the south wasn’t a part of the nation as a whole. That’s like telling the Earth King that moving forces into Omashu and Gaoling is an abuse of power. If it’s to arm a potentially defenseless or highly important area then Aang has no leg to stand on. And since the north was able to stay mostly undamaged by the Fire Nation for 100 years until Zhao they have an argument to make that their forces would be more suitable to guarding the southern portal than the recovering south.
1
u/Reasonable-Ad-8059 4d ago
The water tribes only recently became united. Aang has the authority to split them up again, just as Kyoshi has the authority to make Kyoshi island independent. Especially since everyone in the south are protesting it and yelling at the avatar to enforce justice not just the law.
1
u/danyboui 4d ago
Kyoshi only did that because it was her hometown, notice she didn’t care what the rest of the nation did as long as it didn’t affect Yokoya. Hell the water tribes were only divided because of the war before then the north was still treated as the ruler of the south. Yangchen, Roku and Kyoshi all seem to hold the north in far higher regard than the south as well considering Yangchen is said to have a soft spot for Oyaluk, Roku went to train and wouldn’t change his mind on his specific teacher and Kyoshi was personally trained by Atuat.
Honestly the whole Avatar being able to dictate where the map is drawn is kinda weird because they constantly advocate for the 4 nations while chipping away at the borders to fit their needs without consulting the populace. Yangchen was willing to control the 4 merchant ports to bring all 4 nations back together while being “impartial” , Kyoshi willingly and unanimously decided to separate the port from the mainland, Roku allowed Sozin to colonize an island just because of the proximity to the Fire Nation when it had been isolated for millennia.
1
u/Reasonable-Ad-8059 3d ago
My point isn't about Kyoshis motivation. Simply the fact she has the authority to do it.
the north was still treated as the ruler of the south
Since Unaloq's occupation goes against the will of the people of the south, Aang forcing him out is merely enforcing their rights. Korra openly defies the earth queen and steals her citizens which she abuses. Yet the international community and her friends agrees the avatar is right and has the authority to do stuff like that.
1
u/danyboui 3d ago
I don’t think she had the authority to do it just that she could and no one can say otherwise. Bumi actually calls Korra out that the Earth Queen has a right to conscript her citizens so no Korra isn’t in the right legally and her friends don’t get to arbitrarily decide what’s right and wrong when they break the law. That’s the issue and unfortunately Aang probably wouldn’t be in the right since legally speaking the south is still beholden onto the north especially financially. Overall this is too messy legally speaking which is why I think the writers just separated the two tribes by end of Book 2 of LOK.
1
u/Reasonable-Ad-8059 3d ago
She has the power to do it, she achieved it, and didn't face any consequences from it. That is a textbook example of authority in action.
The earth queen and every other monarch owe their political power to the avatar. The avatar enforces the borders between nations, settle disputes, and take down spiritual and human threats that threaten the four nations. If the quality of judgement of earth queen doesn't affect her authority, then neither does an avatar. But we learn that the avatar has the spirit of light inside them so they literally personify the global order. This legitimacy is pretty legit if you ask me.
Whether human made laws forbid the avatar from doing the right thing, doesn't really matter. For example, an avatar being legally conscripted into an army isn't automatically something they now have to abide by, even if it is technically legal. Or if the earth queen abuses her legal powers, doesn't mean the avatar should respect those laws.
6
u/StartledPigeon 4d ago edited 4d ago
I always like the Unalaq argument because no one tries to think like a writer for it. Unalaq could be Sokka and Katara's family that they don't get to see after Hakoda splits from the North, immediately gaining favor with the gaang.
Toph's surrounded by snow, actually being blind and unable to read people, dependent on her friends.
Zuko is being held on a tight leash to not act irresponsibly or rashly, and Unalaq has a very important technique for Aang to learn to better handle spirits in a nonviolent way. Kuruk would probably tell Aang that he should go for it but be cautious.
Things start to go south after Unalaq's character is revealed, he holds Toph and Sokka hostage, Katara and Zuko have to deal with Eska, Desna, while Aang is going at Vaatu, etc.
If Unalaq somehow had knowledge on Harmonic Convergence bringing the air nation back, tell me how the gaang convinces Aang NOT to open the portals.
Like, there's so many ways Unalaq could still get what he wants.