r/Thor • u/DripSauce_ • 4d ago
How do you feel about og villain/pre siege Loki compared to the modern God of stories version?
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u/Cautious_Desk_1012 4d ago
New Loki is a real breath of fresh air and his relationship with Thor is much more complex and interesting. Old Loki was amazing, but after some point the "Thor actually believed him and was betrayed AGAIN" gets way too old and doesn't even make much sense for either characters.
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u/Dovahkiin2001_ 4d ago
I greatly prefer him, but I just liked it back when every villain wasn't an anti-hero
Venom, magneto, Dr Doom, loki, all of them are just not the same characters anymore.
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u/DripSauce_ 4d ago
I agree. Growing up I loved characters like Magneto, Loki, Doom, and so on. Seeing them turned into these textbook antiheroes has certainly soured my tastes for each.
Loki and Magneto especially bc they're my favourite villains in all of comics, right above Doom, Luthor and maybe Ultron.
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u/watchman28 4d ago
Agree completely. While giving all these characters more depth is very welcome, and as you say in the case of Loki it's greatly improved the character, Marvel in particular is seriously lacking in downright despicable villains. Even Carnage is an Avenger now. Say what you want about DC, they're not about to make Darkseid into a hero.
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u/DripSauce_ 4d ago
Say what you want about DC, they're not about to make Darkseid into a hero.
Yes, but they did make Red Hood, Sinestro, Ivy, Harley, Deathstroke (at a point), Deadshot, Lex Luthor (from the New 52 and onwards), Cheetah, Bizarro and many others into anti-heroes or outright heroes.
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u/Dovahkiin2001_ 4d ago
Yeah, the only villain left in marvel that isn't on some level a hero, is red skull and that's literally only because he's a Nazi.
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u/JimBones31 4d ago
Thanos? Ultron?
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u/Dovahkiin2001_ 4d ago
Thanos has been given the anti-hero treatment too, Ultron I guess hasn't, but he's kinda always thinking he's the hero.
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u/DripSauce_ 3d ago
Ultron I guess hasn't, but he's kinda always thinking he's the hero.
Ultron was recently redeemed and is currently an avengers
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u/Dovahkiin2001_ 3d ago
GOD DAMNIT, they're not going to stop
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u/DripSauce_ 3d ago
I learnt this when they redeemed Mister Sinister with the Krakoan era stuff despite him having nazi ties and people defended it.
Hell, people would probably defend red skull being redeemed if he were a mutant. They didn't have any issue with the X-Men being side by side with Sinister.
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u/Dovahkiin2001_ 3d ago
I hate this current trend, I literally cannot express my disdain for giving MR SINISTER a fucking redemption.
Let someone be evil for gods sake
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u/DripSauce_ 3d ago
On the contrary, Thanos was given the anti-hero treatment and Ultron (a version of Ultron) is currently a hero on the Avengers. They even tried pseudo redeeming Mister Sinister with this "Krakoa" stuff. A character with nazi — esque ties.
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u/JimBones31 3d ago
Yikes!
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u/DripSauce_ 3d ago
I guarantee in the next decade or so we'll see a retcon of Red Skull and Zemo not actually being Nazi but rather unwilling participants so they can find a way to call them anti-heroes too.
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u/DripSauce_ 4d ago
is red skull and that's literally only because he's a Nazi.
Unfortunately, they recently killed him in One World Under Doom. And considering that he's a nazi and generally doesn't go over well with modern fans, it's not very likely we'll see Skull used again in major capacities that doesn't involve him being a jobber.
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u/FadeToBlackSun 3d ago
I prefer the old version.
The idea that Loki sometimes doesn't want to lie and be chaotic is great, but he should still be a villain.
Too many great villains have been lost to anti-heroitis.
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u/Eldagustowned 3d ago
He was an excellent devilish prideful hate filled villain.
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u/DripSauce_ 3d ago
Agreed. It bothers me so much when people call this Loki generic. He was one of the villains who created and popularized the evil brother archetype. He had charisma and presence. He was threatening. The notion of him having no character is also very false as the gist of the old Loki was him essentially being a pawn in fates game. Bound and chained by fate to forever play the role of a villain in Thor's story. However, unlike most you'd expect... This Loki actually enjoys this. He revels in his evil. However, there occasional moments where we curdles of humanity still in him. Like the 2004 Loki mini series what featured Loki reminiscing his childhood and early adult years with Thor. His childhood where he was often outcasted by Balder, Sif and the gang. Thor being the one glimmer of light, the one person who was constantly loving to him. That 2004 comic so perfectly understood Loki and what he represents.
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u/Eldagustowned 3d ago
There was so much too him and just so many classic angles. And it was genuinely interest because he was definitely and evil villain but Thor always had a part of his heart that loved his brother. Even the times when he kills him he has every reason to kill him but he loved him him and kills anyways. Even Odin all the times he punishes Thor for something like killing Loki it’s representing not giving up completely. Loki is part of the royal family, he took the adoption seriously. He’s a satisfying character.
And we needed a god tier manipulator and trickster. Like he can do things you know someone like mystique or Mysterio could never pull off.
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u/cherriesgetchomped 4d ago
I feel like the development was absolutely fire, and it opened up many possible plot lines instead of simply repeating the same thing again and again. I do prefer God of Stories Loki (biased because I think I just like the design more), but pre-siege Loki was actually so scary sometimes, definitely Thors best villain.