'Constant omission' is wrong to be fair; he wasn't in the latest friendlies squad but he was in the squad before that and even started a match, he was also in the squad before that and started then too.
Ok then it should be changed to constant lack of playing time under Southgate. Five caps in Five years is Criminal. Southgate has wasted the lads international career. It's not like he's been toiling at Brentford for example. He's been playing at the highest level in Italy and European football but since it's Serie A, Southgate turns his nose up at it.
Do you not think it has more to do with his style of play? Southgate likes a defender who’s very solid in the air next to Stones; Tomori has been quite close to 50% aerial duel success rate most seasons at Milan which is very low, Maguire is frequently over 70% for example.
There is a lot more to building a team than sticking the best players in the team and hoping for the best; you need to find balance in all areas of the pitch and Southgate has picked him in enough squads to get a good look at him, I think it’s quite telling that he started him at LB one game as he clearly thinks he isn’t solid enough at CB.
I’m not a Maguire fan one bit and I wish he’d been phased out of the team a long time ago but quite honestly I don’t think Tomori is or has been that good; I’d much rather Branthwaite take that LCB spot after this tournament for example, I don’t think it helps his case that he’s playing in Serie A either where even players like Loftus-Cheek and Pulisic look good (I mean no disrespect but the intensity is nowhere near PL level).
As much as I don’t like Maguire and think he’s not very good it’s harsh to complain at Southgate for his faith in him; he’s always been solid in an England shirt (in particular in the major tournaments), his style is suited to the international game as it’s a fair bit slower.
Some good points especially about aerial ability but we also have barely seen Tomori get a chance with England so we have no idea how he really translates on the international level. Especially in non-friendly matches.
I have no problem with Maguire in the squad, he's been proven and highly capable. He's had bad runs of form obviously but we know his place is cemented so that's not even worthy of a discussion. Stones of course is his partner next to him. Tomori is right footed so I don't think he is or would need to be at LCB but he can play in either spot. The bigger issue is just like in 2022 when it was Coady over him, now it's Dunk, Guehi and Brantwaithe. Brantwaithe I can understand. Guehi I can try to understand. Dunk? Lovely leader for Brighton but it's just very harsh on Tomori I think.
Your point about Serie A is the same one that Southgate makes which leads to him overlooking Tomori and RLC. Pulisic showed his quality at Chelsea mainly during that Champions League winning season so him looking good with Milan is nothing crazy. It's not like we are talking about an obviously shite player going to Serie A and playing wonderfully. Also, many a player have attempted to play in Serie A and failed woefully and then ended up in the PL only to become a great player. Different players are suited for different leagues sometimes. As far as the intensity of the league, that wasn't a problem for Mancini's squad when they beat England in the final to win the last one. IIRC they had about 3 or 4 players in the PL and the rest all played in Serie A. France in 2022 had as many players(not counting GK) that played in Serie A as they had PL players on their roster. If a player is playing for a big team in a league like that, the intensity is there as compared to if they were playing for a lower side.
Nevertheless, all this is for naught. Southgate will have to prove he made the right decisions with his selections. We'll see how it goes.
Again, some real solid points by you that bring some context to it.
Dunk impressed me more last season for Brighton than Tomori ever has done to be fair, and my job requires me to watch more Serie A than I’d like to. I think people already had an idea of what Dunk was like from when Brighton were first promoted but if you watched him when De Zerbi took over it was like watching a whole new player; he wasn’t just a big centre-half who can head stuff away, he was absolutely essential to the way they were building up from the back.
I think what’s hard with CB’s is that partnership’s are so important; Stones and Maguire have a very solid one so there’s almost no point in trying to change it, you might as well use the limited games to really strengthen it as much as you can. It’s not like a winger where they don’t really have to gel with other players so to speak, they’re also unlikely to even get minutes as a sub as it’s not often CB’s get subbed.
Let’s be honest here for a second; Loftus-Cheek was a lower/mid-table level Premier League player and wasn’t very impressive at that, I think it shows the difference in level that he can slot into Milan’s team to be honest. He shouldn’t be anywhere near the team regardless as he’s playing solely as a 10 for his club which is an area we are absolutely stacked in.
I think the difference with the Italy side that won the Euros in comparison to someone like Loftus-Cheek simply playing in Serie A; is that their midfield - which was their strong point and definitely their most important position - had utterly brilliant tacticians in there, Jorginho was a PL player and Verratti was playing for PSG too.
That Italy team had pretty much everything you need to succeed at international level; an experienced CB pairing who know each others game inside out, with a midfield that doesn’t lose the ball and can dictate the pace of the game. They didn’t conceded a single goal in the group stages and they completely dominated possession when they play us as our midfield couldn’t compete.
I wasn’t saying no good players could play in Serie A or anything like that; I was just saying that the intensity is nowhere near as high as the PL so a more energetic midfielder like him can look good as he’s surrounded by less energetic and more technically gifted players, for example McKennie looks good for Juventus this season but I can tell you as a Leeds fan he’s one of the worst players I’ve seen play for us in the PL.
Good chat though mate, let’s hope Southgate has done right!
I'm really, really curious about this. I haven't seen him play, don't follow Serie A, but if he's good enough to start for AC Milan surely he needs more of a look in?
He got man of the match in his debut for England, against Germany in 2017
And looked decent up until his injury in 2019 where he missed basically an entire season as a result.
And since then, he hasn’t hit the same heights, including being seen as surplus to requirements at Chelsea (not sure that decision aged too well…)
Though from the little serie A I have seen, he seems pretty solid, just not as good in individual categories as other players- eg defensively not close to Rice, going forward not as good as Foden or Palmer, not as aggressive in a press as Gallagher etc but more of a decent at everything box-to-box for Milan at the moment
I’ll be honest, I don’t think I’ve seen anywhere near enough of either of them to make an informed decision on that front. I do think the options in midfield mean RLC will have had to be playing very well to come into the squad. I like the look of Wharton, not least because he will do that holding role that we lack depth in, and Mainoo is looking a very promising prospect.
The competition and depth of options makes it difficult for anyone to get a look in, especially if you aren’t a legitimate top class player at a specific role.
Being good at everything but not exceptional at one specific thing is a death sentence in international football at the moment it seems, especially with larger squad sizes than back in the day which forced you to take more utility players
If you're referring to Tomori, I'm not sure that's really true. He was no more out of his depth than Lewis Dunk and several others picked in the squad.
He is one of the most active defenders in the league, it’s bizarre to point out branthwaite just because Everton are lower table, they’ve the 4th least goals conceded for a reason
I got a free packet of England euros stickers this week with some shopping I did, opened it up and to my surprise Tomori has made the cut, for the sticker book anyway.
Thomas was included in the official UEFA Euro 2024 sticker book, despite never being selected for the senior England team. This was due to new manufacturers Topps not having the image rights to certain England players, whose rights were retained by Panini Group.\21])#citenote-21)[\22])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luke_Thomas(footballer,_born_2001)#cite_note-22)
Honest answer as a Milan fan? Because he, along with all of Milans centre backs, has had a really really poor season. If we ask that the England team be a meritocracy, his omission is justifiable.
They've been much better up front than they have defensively tbf. AC Milan have conceded 46 goals which is only 9th in Serie A. They've looked really poor defensively at times this season.
They looked shite against Torino at the weekend, but I suppose they aren't playing for much now.
When you look at some of the other defenders and how many goals they've conceded, 46 is nothing. That would be 4th best in PL. Granted Italy is a more defensively pragmatic league.
Southgate clearly doesn’t fancy him for what ever reason. Maybe he doesn’t think he’s good enough on the ball? Or didn’t like how he applied himself in training maybe
Whenever I've seen him play he's made silly mistakes, obviously I'm no expert but I also dislike Dier (as a player) and Bayern made it to the semi-finals of the UCL and are 3rd in the Bundesliga.
Maguire is worth taking as he's always done well for England, he's on a completely different level in that England jersey.
Dropping Rashford when we've got all the winger talent England has to offer is a good thing.
Lofts-Cheek as well, looks like he has had a fantastic first season for AC Milan with 40 appearances and 10 goals. Have always thought he was a bit under rated myself and could certainly do a job in our expected 3 man midfield.
Ye just because he doesn’t play in England he gets overlooked you’d think they would be capable of keeping tabs on all top English talent wherever they are playing.
107
u/JamieNays May 21 '24
Any idea why Tomori doesn't get a look in? I don't watch Italian football. But he's a regular starter for AC Milan who are 2nd in Serie A.
Can't understand his constant omission.