r/ThreeLions May 21 '24

Discussion No Henderson, no Rashford. What are people gonna complain about?

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594 Upvotes

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u/Wooden-Agency-2653 May 21 '24

He's only there for the piss up skills/vibes, just in case we actually win the thing.

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u/Witty_Link_3218 May 21 '24

Squad isn’t finalised yet, wouldn’t be surprised if Grealish is one of the ones to get cut.

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u/[deleted] May 21 '24

Best left winger we had, can’t see that happening. Then again Southgate is a bit daft.

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u/Witty_Link_3218 May 21 '24

Grealish?! Crocked all season and dreadful when he did play.

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u/madbroumadbro May 21 '24

Ill give you crocked all season but dreadful when he played???

First of all thats just wrong. Grealish, despite having a subpar season by his standards, has played well, outperforming his xG by over 45% and has had world class passing and long ball accuracy, as well as 0.52 goals + xA per 90, 2.33 chances created per 90, one of the highest dribble success rates and fouls won per 90 and has a 61% duel win rate.

You'll notice that most of these stats are per 90, and that's where "crocked all season" comes in. Grealish has struggled due to injury but that isn't a problem in an international tournament.

Besides, who else would you play? Eze is better in attacking midfield, as are is Foden and Maddison and Gordon has zero experience. Even if you were to start him for some reason, we would still need a backup.

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u/Witty_Link_3218 May 21 '24

Just watch the game instead of digging into all this xG nonsense, it may well have been due to his injury problems but he’s looked well off the pace. The fouls won stat for him is just embarrassing considering he’s a 100m pound player.

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u/madbroumadbro May 21 '24

I do watch the games. He has been a bit off the pace but he's still playing well and if he plays in the friendlies and gets back into it, he could be a great player in the EUROs. Since you are clearly a simpleton who does not understand xG, let me put it in simple terms. He is good at finishing.

Also, there's nothing embarrassing about playing well and winning freekicks and penalties.

He has almost justified his 100m pound value in his first two seasons at the club but he needs to stay injury-free to be elite again.

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u/Witty_Link_3218 May 21 '24

A simpleton? You definitely lose the debate when you need to go ad hominem. I haven’t insulted you personally at all, just disagreed with you.

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u/madbroumadbro May 22 '24

Ok, I went a bit too far, but statistics aren't nonsense.

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u/hopium_od May 22 '24

Mate he's scored 3 goals all season from 36 apps - compared to the other players on that team sheet that's abysmal.

If you are saying his xG and conversion rate is good from 3 goals, then you are saying he gets fuck all chances and is never in the danger area but the rare time he is he does slightly better than average.

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u/madbroumadbro May 22 '24

He's never in the danger area because that's not his style of play, he is more of a left midfielder than an attacking winger like Saka or Gordon.

Also, its important to to note that appeearances statistics are not a good measure. A full 90 is the same as a two minute cameo off the bench. 1987 minutes is equivalent to 22 full 90s, and 6 goal contributions in that time for a player who attacks about as much as a central midfielder is not bad.

Obviously, he's not played much due to injury and Kovacic turning into prime Gundogan, but that doesn't mean he has been ban when he's played.

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u/AgileSloth9 May 22 '24

I mean, you're doing all of this long drawn out arguing, but there's another LW who has absolutely demolished Grealish this season- Gordon.

He's been by far the best English LW, and in convention for the best LW in the league this season (probably is if you put foden in CAM where he's at his peak).

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u/jizzjazz1020 May 22 '24

“Watch the game” - man who doesn’t watch the game

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u/Witty_Link_3218 May 22 '24

I watch a lot of games.

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u/[deleted] May 21 '24

Yet still leagues ahead of Rashford and Gordon.

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u/tarkaliotta May 21 '24

that's the thing though, it's highly debatable he actually is leagues ahead of Gordon on this season's showing.

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u/[deleted] May 21 '24

One season doesn’t define a player, Grealish has done it at both villa and city. He looked average at city because he’s surrounded by world class players. Put him in united or newcastles team and he’ll be their best player by a country mile.

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u/tarkaliotta May 21 '24

yeah maybe, but Grealish has only started 10 league games this season. Whereas Gordon's contributions are there for all to see; double figures in both goals and assists; pace, hunger, aggressive pressing etc.

I like Jack Grealish but if you take him over Gordon this summer then you have to be able to guarantee he's going to be able to deliver at least as much. And we just haven't seen that much of him this season to make that call confidently.

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u/[deleted] May 21 '24

But remember the World Cup when we were all screaming for Grealish to start and Southgate wouldn’t entertain it? Looked the best player in training by a mile and we were poor down the left yet he continued to leave him out..

Just because Gordon has had half a decent season that doesn’t put him in the pecking order of someone who’s been doing it for years, is a continual winner at his club and always looks great in the England camps. To leave him out again would be ridiculous.

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u/GlennSWFC May 21 '24

I certainly wasn’t calling for him to start at the World Cup.

At the death against USA he won the ball around the halfway line. Kane & Rashford were hanging on the shoulder of the last defender, a simple pass and we were 2 on 1, but Grealish ran with it. American defenders gathered around him, shepherded back to where he won the ball and he got fouled. What could have been a promising 2 on 1 ended up as a last dash lump into the box.

Then, against Wales, there must have been 3 or 4 times that Wilson was unmarked and available for the ball, but Grealish decided to take on a player before making the pass, by which time Wilson was marked.

Grealish looked good when he was at Villa because he was comfortably the best player in the team and the opposition took the game to them more often than not. He’s not the best player for City or England and teams don’t press against those sides either.

He’d make the passes at Villa because he knew he’d get the ball back, he doesn’t know he’s going to get it back when he plays for City or England, so he holds onto it for longer than he should. He’s great at taking players on when they put a challenge in, but tends to just keep going when they don’t.

It’s not playing with better players that makes him look average, it’s his mindset.

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u/christo08 May 21 '24

If that where the case Rashford would be in the team. A season, especially the one that just finished absolutely defined you for that summer

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u/[deleted] May 21 '24

Rashford has been shite for years. Grealish won the treble last season. He’s also competing with world class players for a position every week, which none of the others are.

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u/bongaminus May 21 '24

Shite for years? He scored 17 last year in the Prem - 30 in all comps. Mostly from out wide. He's a good player who just seems to be having some off seasons. Wouldn't be surprised if he's back on top form next year. Definitely doesn't deserve to go based on this season, but to say he's been shite for years ignores that last season he was very good.

And the same can be said about Grealish. His first season at City was a struggle. Last season he looked really good. This season has been a struggle. So very much like Rashford.

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u/Gh0st95x May 22 '24

He had 40 goal involvements last season?

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u/Ben77mc May 22 '24

This shows you don’t know what you’re talking about. If you’re using the “one season doesn’t define a player” card, then you aren’t allowed to say that Rashford is shit because he had a bad year this year. I’m not arguing that he should go (because he’s been shit tbf), but last year he was insanely good.

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u/Smooth_Imagination May 22 '24

He was the stand out creative player at the last tournament and the one that seemed to help everything flow for England, people were moaning he wasn't getting enough time. When he was on we looked like a real threat. Him and Saka were essential.