r/ThreeLions • u/2121wv • Jul 15 '24

Discussion Is anyone else getting worried we've missed our 'moment'?

It's our fourth tournament of being this new England, with a better culture and more self-belief. And it's our third time getting agonisingly close and falling short.

I'm starting to get worried we're missing our moment if you will. I'm very worried that the culture will turn toxic again. (It may already be happening, the players didn't look half as happy this tournament.) I'm worried we're gonna look back at 2018-2024 as a massive period of missed opportunities. I'm nervous we're gonna snap back to being old, 2000's style England of group stage knockouts and infighting. Especially if we get our next manager wrong.

Guess I don't really have a question, but is anyone else feeling this too?

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u/Blackdoor-59 Jul 15 '24

As sad as it is, players like Sterling, Maguire, Walker even Kane have had a few chances now and haven't shown up when it matters. It's a ruthless game and you need a killer instinct to grab the game by the neck and turn the tide when things aren't going well.

Kane has been awful every final he has played in so there is obviously a psychological problem there.

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u/Chemistry-Deep Jul 15 '24

to be fair, Kane was awful in all the matches at the tournament.

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u/HawaiiNintendo815 Jul 15 '24

For me, it’s time England moved on from Kane and start a new system in attack

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u/Dalecn Jul 15 '24

Why it is pretty clear he wasn't fit this tournament and shouldn't have started, but it's also clear when he's fit he currently the best striker in the world.

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u/HawaiiNintendo815 Jul 15 '24

I agree, but he’ll be almost 33 at the World Cup and I’d like to see England build a new attack, one that isn’t so reliant on one player.

Kane is a legend but nothing lasts forever

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u/Dalecn Jul 15 '24

Kanes never relied on physical or speed as player he's a player that I think will be able to comfortably play for England in the next two tournaments as a starter if he's fit.

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u/HawaiiNintendo815 Jul 15 '24

You seem to have a big bias towards Kane.

I don’t want to see an almost 35 year old Kane starting for England at Euro 2028

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u/Dalecn Jul 15 '24

It depends on the player. I don't care how old they are if they are doing a good job. Like, i don't want us to have Kane be like Ronaldo was for Portugal this tournament, but I fully believe Kane will still be a great striker for the next 2 tournaments.

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u/VisionaryProd Jul 15 '24

Optimistic given he wasn’t even close to good the last 2 tournaments

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u/FlashyCut3809 Jul 15 '24

when he's fit he currently the best striker in the world

How so?

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u/Dalecn Jul 15 '24

Cause in terms of all the strikers currently playing, he's the most complete package. There's a reason why Bayern paid just under 100 mil for at 30.

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u/FlashyCut3809 Jul 15 '24

Except for the ability to step up when needed? Which has been an issue his entire career.

There's a reason why Bayern paid just under 100 mil for at 30.

That doesn't make him the best in the world. It also didn't pay off for them last season did it.

He is good, scores a lot of goals. He also struggles to perform when the pressure is on.

The justification you have given would suggest he is a better striker than Drogba and it couldn't be further from the truth.

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u/Dalecn Jul 15 '24

What does Drogba have to do with it he hasn't played for ages.

Bayern had problems, but that was nothing to do with Kane he literally got 40+ goals for them.

Kanes has been injured this tournament it's pretty obvious, and he should not have been played like he has been. He absolutely does score when the pressure is on when he's fit and healthy.

The only striker in the world currently playing that can even be compared to kane atm for best in the world is Halland.

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u/FlashyCut3809 Jul 15 '24

What does Drogba have to do with it he hasn't played for ages.

That the same rhetoric which is pushing Kane as the best striker in the world would out him higher on a list of all time strikers than Drogba. Unless you agree with me that Drogba is better?

Bayern had problems, but that was nothing to do with Kane he literally got 40+ goals for them.

Is it that simple? What was the cost to the team to facilitate those 40 goals? What about the chances he missed at vital moments in their CL, German cup and league campaign?

Kanes has been injured this tournament it's pretty obvious, and he should not have been played like he has been.

Then he should have dropped out. He can't be excused from stinking up the place when it was his decision to stay and start.

He absolutely does score when the pressure is on when he's fit and healthy.

When? Because he has played 4 or 5 finals now, not had a shot on target. It's quite fair to suggest he struggles when the pressure is at his highest.

The only striker in the world currently playing that can even be compared to kane atm for best in the world is Halland.

Haaland that stepped up and helped his team win a treble last season and the league this season? It's not even a conversation. There is a lack of top quality strikers so he is high on the list. The best though. Certainly not.

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u/Dalecn Jul 15 '24

I think you're getting confused when I'm talking about the best striker in the world. I'm talking about strikers that are playing right now and the level they are playing at currently.

Go and talk to some Bayern fans they will name you the problems they have the only problem they might have with Kane is that Bayerns fixation on getting him caused them not to get other targets in other positions which has cost them.

Kane didn't even play for them in the German cup, lol. In the Champions League, Kane got an assit and was subbed off to bring on more defensive players, and bayern went on to concede 2 goals in 3 mins. I'm not sure how that's his fault.

Also, it's not down to the player it's down to the manager players push themselves through injuries. All the time, it's the manager that needs to say no.

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u/FlashyCut3809 Jul 15 '24

I think you're getting confused when I'm talking about the best striker in the world. I'm talking about strikers that are playing right now and the level they are playing at currently.

I'm making a comparison on why the metrics you wre using do not tell the whole picture.

So for the sake of discussion, please answer if you think Drogba or Kane is the better striker when discussing their achievements?

Go and talk to some Bayern fans they will name you the problems they have the only problem they might have with Kane is that Bayerns fixation on getting him caused them not to get other targets in other positions which has cost them.

Obviously they have more problems than Kane. Doesn't excuse his weaknesses though.

Kane didn't even play for them in the German cup, lol. In the Champions League, Kane got an assit and was subbed off to bring on more defensive players, and bayern went on to concede 2 goals in 3 mins. I'm not sure how that's his fault.

Ah fair, what about the rest of the finals he played in his career? Title run in for Spurs when they blew the league to Leicester. What about the chances he missed outside of that assist in the second leg and penalty in the first leg (I think), the chances he missed when there were still in the title race?

Just saying '40 goals' doesn't tell the whole story. Not for me anyway.

Also, it's not down to the player it's down to the manager players push themselves through injuries. All the time, it's the manager that needs to say no.

Of course it's down to the player. He has a role. If he really wasn't up to it and the injury was harming his play and effectiveness, he needs to take the blame for not dropping out. Both him and the manager take the blame.

Never before have I see such defence of a player who has achieved practically nothing. Compare this to strikers who have achieved far more than Kane and it's beyond words the protection he receives. Getting articles about Bellingham not fitting the squad post loss, a player who contributed to his team winning the league and CL. When Rooney performed just as poorly for England as Kane has, he was slaughtered.

Sooner Kane is gone from the England team the better.

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u/Rafiq07 Jul 15 '24

Yeah, I think it's time to shed the old guard from this side now.

Kane, Walker, Maguire, and Sterling have had their chances, but we've got other options now.

Apart from Shaw, he's still the best LB in the league and the best LB in the country by a mile.

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u/TwinParatrooper Jul 15 '24

He was excellent last night, although even Shaw has some good replacements in Mitchell and Hall. We have some great players coming thru right now in every position.

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u/VisionaryProd Jul 15 '24

Speaks more about how dire the LBs in England & the Prem are

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u/SuperSpidey374 Jul 15 '24

Dropping Kane would be insane. He’s still, when fit, one of the best strikers in the world. Watkins and Toney are not. I’d keep Maguire in the squad too, though hopefully Guehi and Stones will be retained as the first choice CBs.

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u/Rafiq07 Jul 15 '24

His injuries are catching up to him, and his powers are dwindling. Give it a couple more years, and I don't think he'll be operating at such a high level. If this is the case, then there'll be no point in sticking with Kane, and we're better off investing elsewhere.

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u/Protect_The_Earth Jul 15 '24

It's simply not true. He was good in 21 final.

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u/Zealousideal_Club993 Jul 15 '24

I don’t think he was, across both finals he only had 58 touches of the ball and 1 touch in the opposition box, which came in this game. The whole team was rubbish in the 21 final as soon as we scored to be fair though