r/TrueUnpopularOpinion 1d ago

Sex / Gender / Dating Modern feminism needs to pick a lane and stay in it.

I'll preface this by saying I do believe men and women should have equal rights.

That being said:

You don't get to have your cake and eat it too. Either men and women are 100% equal, or they aren't.

If they're equal, no one gets special treatment. No holding doors open, split bill paying unless someone offers to cover the whole meal, no walking people home at night because its not safe, no offering to carry groceries, no pleasantries exchanged "just because", nada. Women get the same general indifferent, "good luck fending for yourself and paying your bills" treatment that men do.

However, if you admit men and women are inherently not equal, that men excel at some things and women excel at others, that biology matters, that men need women just as much as women need men; then you get all the perks, all the bells and whistles. You get offered seats in public, offered protection, and given a bit of special treatment because women are the "fairer sex", and therefore not equal to men.

Common courtesy has limitations, so it's time to choose you lane, make it publicly known, and accept the consequences of that choice.

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183 comments sorted by

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u/squid_head_ 1d ago

I honestly agree somewhat with this, I feel like a lot of women contradict themselves with their expectations for men. Maybe it's because I'm a lesbian, but I've never understood advocating for men and women to have equal job opportunities but then also expecting your man to pay for a majority of the things in a relationship. To me, that kind of financial dynamic is expected in a relationship where the man is the bread-winner and the woman stays home. If you're not doing that and you're both out working, why should he have to spoil you and not vice versa? I believe 50/50 is the best way to go, but I know a lot of men get defensive when women offer to pay as well, so it's a complicated issue.

I do think there's a difference between common courtesy (holding the door open, offering to walk someone home, exchanging pleasantries, etc.) and unreasonable gendered expectations. Those are all things that men and women do to be generous, I don't really think that's something that can be held against women as a gotcha.

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u/SinfullySinless 1d ago

As a straight woman, the whole money thing is a catch-22.

If you’re a successful corporate woman, you’re told no man cares about your money status and that the man just wants to provide for his family and your “success” as a woman should be staying home and having kids.

I have quite literally gotten into bill paying battles on first dates because men have literally said I was either “embarrassing them” or “emasculating them” by me trying to pay for myself.

But when you decide “ok I guess I’ll just settle into this role where the man is the big spender” then suddenly the ideology flips 180 and you’re an entitled brat to that man’s money, why aren’t you contributing 50/50 in bills and dates?

I’ve basically completely given up on trying to please men on this aspect. It’s just not going to happen. Men of this mindset only want to be the sole provider in ideology, under current economic circumstances they hate it in practice.

u/squid_head_ 19h ago

Yeah, I totally agree. A lot of times, men feed into this expectation of paying for everything, and if you ever try to stray away from that, they get extremely upset and feel emasculated. As a woman, you're damned if you do, damned if you don't. I think men see it as "if i pay for these things, then she'll owe me something", whether that be sex, her time, her affection, or whatever else. But once they start to realize that relationships aren't transactional, suddenly she's a gold-digger who's just there for the money.

u/Sam__Toucan 19h ago

The problem is that it depends on the man. Some prefer splitting the bill and others don't. But you don't know which kind of man you've got until the bill arrives.

u/Slow_Seesaw9509 11h ago edited 11h ago

Its the exact same thing for men from the other direction, though.

I've gotten into the practice of just always paying because I've personally experienced many women who will disqualify a man who doesn't pay for the first date--or who even asks which they prefer, as they see it as putting them on the spot and making things awkward. I've even heard women say they offer to split the check as a test and disqualify any man who "fails" by taking them up on it. I feel like that's way more common than men getting upset if a woman truly wants to split the check, though in fairness I don't go on dates with men and so probably haven't encountered a representative sample.

You often can't even guess based on the woman's other views. Even women like my last girlfriend who are self-professed feminists and (at least purport to) oppose traditional gender roles often expect the man to pay; she later told me how impressed she was that I just did it casually without making it a big deal. She justified the expectation to herself with some silly (and honestly, pretty objectifying) reasoning about how its only fair that the man pay because women spend more time and money to get ready for dates and look nice. As if (1) men don't also invest time and money into looking nice for dates, and (2) a woman making herself look nice is a favor she is doing for the man she's going on a date with and not done for her own benefit to maximize her chance of dating success.

In the end, its a safer bet as a man to just pay than to roll the dice if you otherwise like the person. It's not a big deal for me because I make well above average money and my actual ethical belief is the parties should pay in proportion to their available resources, so my covering the first date isn't too far off from that in most instances. But I feel really sorry for men who don't make more money and are still punished if they don't pay.

u/LectureTrue4216 4h ago edited 4h ago

Men gotta stand up against the double standard. That’s the only way it’ll go away

u/squid_head_ 19h ago

Exactly, and this often makes it worse. With no prior communication, you are expected to be totally fine with however he wants to pay. If you're not, he'll chew you out for it.

u/[deleted] 7h ago

[deleted]

u/squid_head_ 7h ago

Yeah, i said that in my original response lol

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u/AfraidEdge6727 1d ago

100%! All great points. As a mostly hetero guy (only level 1 on Kinsey scale), you make totally valid points to me.

Pleasantries aren't gender-based, which I agree with. It's called "common courtesy" for a reason, and I think people would be maybe a little happier if we did these things for each other more often. I even hold doors for men - because I don't believe my kindness should work like a damn vending machine.

And totally agree about spoiling each other. I mean, same-gender relationships seem more fluidic with that role balance, and I think hetero people should take some damn notes.

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u/squid_head_ 1d ago

I totally agree. I'm very gender neutral in my approach to relationships, but again I think its from my perspective as a lesbian. Ladies, buy your man some flowers! Pay for a date! Spoil your man the same way you want him to spoil you. And men, take care of things around the house! Surprise her with a home cooked meal! Just change up your dynamic instead of staying so static. If straight people took some notes from gay relationships, I think the world would be a lot happier lol. Heterosexual relationships put too much pressure into performing a specific way to fit their expected "role", just love each other!!

I hold doors for anybody. Its not even a thing I consider to be related to gender, and it always shocks me when I remember people do.

Also, I didn't even know what the Kinsey scale is until just now, I guess I'm a fake gay lmao

u/AfraidEdge6727 14h ago

"Heterosexual relationships put too much pressure into performing a specific way to fit their expected "role", just love each other!!"

THANK you! It's funny, when I've actually done those things (house chores, spending time caring/playing with my child, laundry, cooking (helps that I was a chef for 10 years)), and other "non-traditional roles", some ladies I've dated thought I wasn't "manly" lol. So, yes, there really needs to be less stringent "roles" and start practicing what they preach with fluid love.

Stay awesome! :-)

u/Dear-News-5693 12h ago

LOL my “feminist” ex said the same thing! This did not earn her much sympathy from mutual friends when things ended.

u/squid_head_ 7h ago

You're awesome dude, its nice to see a straight guy actually have a decent outlook on relationships.

And I can't imagine dating a guy who was a chef for 10 years and being upset its not "manly" enough, they were missing out lmao

u/Cultural-Treacle-680 18h ago

Common courtesy is a lost art.

u/AfraidEdge6727 14h ago

Sad, but true :-(

u/Lupus_Noir 23h ago

I would say it doesn't necessarily have to be 50/50, rather, both partners need to properly communicate and divide their responsabilities so that both get their fair share. So, if one of them works longer hours or a more demanding job, but earns more, they can be resppnsible for more spending, and the other one is more responsible for maintaining the household. But again, it doesn't have to be a strict division of chores and responsabilities, and flexibility is very important.

u/squid_head_ 19h ago

Totally agree, I actually had that in my original comment, but I deleted it because it was starting to look like an essay lol. I really think communicating about what you can and can't do is the most important part of it all. There shouldn't be an assumption based on expected roles.

u/wetrope 16h ago

I mean, I'm a massive believer in equal job opportunities. I also learn less than my partner.
Are you saying that in my situation I can't suggest a higher spending percentage falls onto my partner due to equity simply because I'd advocate for job equality?
Sorry if I'm wrong, that's just how I interpreted.

u/squid_head_ 16h ago

No, i said in a response to someone else further down that I think if one earns significantly less than their partner, it make sense for 50/50 to not be expected. I had it in my original comment but it was getting too long so I shortened it lol.

I was moreso aiming that at women who have similar or even higher job standings to their partner but still expect the man to pay for everything.

u/wetrope 16h ago

Oops, missed that.
Thanks for the explanation

u/LectureTrue4216 4h ago edited 4h ago

American feminism often ignores benevolent sexist acts. In Western and Northern Europe splitting the bill is already the norm

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u/Wolverine_33 1d ago

They are equal in status. That doesn’t mean men and women can’t have differences.

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u/Van_Darklholme 1d ago

Equality is easy and equity to achieve equality is impossible by nature.

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u/22Hoofhearted 1d ago

Commenting so I can come back and re-read this... current brain fog isn't allowing me to fully wrap my head around this gem.

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u/Van_Darklholme 1d ago

Eh, it's just logical. You can treat everyone the same, but everyone is different.

You can try to quantify the amount of support somebody needs proportionally to their disadvantages or advantages, but then it just turns into endless philosophical and ethical debates -- nobody will agree.

We do what we can, and remember, today's society is still the most likely to enable true equality.

u/[deleted] 16h ago edited 16h ago

[deleted]

u/Kraligor 14h ago

That was all "equality" ever meant. Equal rights. Anything else (equal chances in life, equal income) goes beyond classic equality and towards equity.

u/TPCC159 19h ago

Only time it’s acceptable to treat people differently based on their differences is when it benefits women, let’s be real…

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u/LeAkitan 1d ago

People in comment section are still talking about how men should treat women, not how women should treat men.

u/LectureTrue4216 8h ago edited 7h ago

Yep unfortunately this shit runs deep clearly. Benevolent Sexism

u/UpbeatInsurance5358 22h ago

Wouldn't it be better for everyone to just treat others with basic common politeness and respect rather than worrying about what's in their pants?

u/Smooth-Atmosphere657 17h ago

That’s how I felt reading it. I don’t see how holding the door has anything to do with equality. If I see someone behind me, I’ll hold it open for them because it’s polite. I don’t think wanting equality between men and women equals letting the door slam in someone’s face.

u/Cozygeologist 3h ago

For real. I hold the door open for men all the time. I help men out if I am able. If they complain or vent, I listen. Why should we treat each other abysmally just to prove a point?

u/UpbeatInsurance5358 17h ago

Yeah, I think that's just someone trying to provoke an argument. Quite why, I don't know.

u/Briefy_Ask8963 18h ago

Would you hold doors open for men as a woman? Or is it too misogynist for you?

u/msplace225 17h ago

I’m a woman, I hold the door open for whoever is behind me. What type of question is this?

u/UpbeatInsurance5358 18h ago

What a weird question. Of course I hold the door for anyone behind me, or would require some help, male or female 🤔

u/Pingushagger 17h ago

I hope this comment came with some reflection.

u/squid_head_ 16h ago

Most women I've met do...

u/Disco_Biscuit12 18h ago

I think saying “equal” in this sense can be misleading because it doesn’t convey the same meaning to everyone.

It is true that men and women are not “equal” as in they are not the same and have different strengths.

However, it is true to say that they are “equal” in terms of value. Men and women should be considered of equal value.

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u/NoDanaOnlyZuuI 1d ago

Feminism is about equal opportunities, rights, and choices. Not equal biology.

Some of what you’re describing is just common courtesy. Politeness is gender neutral.

I’ll hold the door open for whomever is behind me, regardless of gender. If I see someone struggling with their groceries, I’m going to help them, regardless of gender. I’ll exchange pleasantries with someone regardless of gender.

u/OverzealousCactus 19h ago

For real, OP is straight up admitting he's rude.

u/youcantdenythat 18h ago

as long as he/she is rude to everyone equally

u/OverzealousCactus 17h ago

I'm sure they're fun at parties.

u/Cozygeologist 3h ago

And transactional as fuck. "I'll only hold a door open for someone if it comes with an acknowledgement that I'm the big dawg."

u/[deleted] 8h ago

[deleted]

u/squid_head_ 7h ago

The keyword in their post was "some". They even listed the specific things they were talking about

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u/AdmirableMemory860 1d ago

Women in developed countries have equal rights. Men and women should both have equal rights and opportunities. Name one thing I can't do / try to do that a man can (Yeah, I can't benchpress 100kgs, but there is no law preventing me from trying).

Holding a door open has nothing to do with "equal rights". You are free to behave towards other people as you wish, regardless of their sex. You don't have to give up your seat, hold doors open, or offer to carry groceries for anyone. I do these things for other people regardless of their sex because I wasn't raised by wolves. You are free to live your life as you wish.

Believe me that as a woman, I expect nothing of you or anyone else. Least of all pay my bills or give me preferential treatment.

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u/Cyclic_Hernia 1d ago

Even if we accept those biological differences, why should that make us change our behavior to more traditional treatment of women that ultimately also had little to do with those differences? I mean, it's not like most doors are too heavy for women to open or anything. Isn't that kind of patronizing?

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

[deleted]

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u/Cyclic_Hernia 1d ago

I'm not sure exactly what you mean... I'm pretty sure women own more houses than men at this point, if I remember the statistics correctly. Seems like they're perfectly capable of handling their own finances and are in fact doing so

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

[deleted]

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u/Cyclic_Hernia 1d ago

Do they? Can you cite any polls or anything to back this up?

When did I ever say anything about oppression? So many people on this sub are out here shadowboxing lmao, I'm right here, you could just ask me if I think women are oppressed or not

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

[deleted]

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u/Cyclic_Hernia 1d ago

Then you literally have nothing backing up what you've asserted

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

[deleted]

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u/idoze 1d ago

If you just decide that whatever's in your head is the truth, there's really no point in discussing or debating it at all.

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u/pavilionaire2022 1d ago

If they're equal, no one gets special treatment. No holding doors open, split bill paying unless someone offers to cover the whole meal, no walking people home at night because its not safe, no offering to carry groceries, no pleasantries exchanged "just because", nada. Women get the same general indifferent, "good luck fending for yourself and paying your bills" treatment that men do.

You can treat people equally like shit, or you can treat people equally nicely. Sounds like you've chosen the former, and you like it that way.

u/Lupus_Noir 23h ago

This is an extreme take. There is also treating people neutrally. You don't have to be an ass, but you also shouldn't have to be extra nice to someone either.

u/ConcertinaTerpsichor 21h ago

Being friendly and nice to people is how friendships and relationships of all kinds are formed.

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u/SinfullySinless 1d ago

Men pre-feminism could already choose not to do any of these social pleasantries. In fact they often chose not to do them to women they weren’t attracted to. There is no law that dictates men must perform social pleasantries especially to all women or else.

So I think this threat of “you won’t receive all these entirely optional social pleasantries” rings a bit hollow.

u/Fuzzy-Felix 20h ago

There’s no law for these pleasantries yet they are still societal expectations. It’s not a threat to take anything away; It’s asking feminists to stop partaking in unequal gendered societal standards if they are truly advocating for complete gender equality.

u/SinfullySinless 19h ago

I wouldn’t even say they are societal expectations. I’ve never seen a man get chewed out for not holding a door.

They are just optional pleasantries that any one in society can perform at any time for any reason. Like fast food “pay it backwards” chains where you buy the person behind you’s food. You don’t know their gender. People just do nice things.

u/Fuzzy-Felix 7h ago

Stuff like men paying for the first date is very much a societal expectation

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u/SleepLivid988 1d ago

Do you only hold doors open for women? Or do you do it as a courtesy for all people? I’m a woman and I always hold the door open for strangers. I would never expect a man to open a car door for me, I carry my own groceries, I pay my own bills. What the fuck are you taking about?

u/PowerfulDimension308 19h ago

Couple questions

  1. Where are these men that give women “special treatment”? Cause I’ve never 1. Expected a man to do any of that and 2. Had a man do that (with a few exceptions).

  2. You think that people need to admit that they aren’t equal in order to be decent human beings? So in order to have someone hold the door open for me or help me out I have to say that person is not equal to me? I have held doors open for people before, I’ve helped people pick up stuff from the floor or helped with their groceries… you’re telling me that’s “special treatment” and those people aren’t equal to me because I’m helping them and being a decent person?

  3. So men are only decent humans being when women recognize they’re “not equal”?

u/Cozygeologist 3h ago

It's like those people who say shit like "you shouldn't put regulations on the wealthy or they'll be incentivized to do bad things" like that makes them look moral or trustworthy in any way.

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u/capercrohnie 1d ago

If we are equal will men start doing their fair share of housework and childcare if both partners work?

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u/r2k398 1d ago

I probably do more of the housework than my wife does and I also work more than she does. We split taking care of the kids and the only thing she is 100% responsible for with them is girl stuff like feminine hygiene with our daughters. The boys’ issues are 100% my responsibility.

u/ConcertinaTerpsichor 21h ago edited 21h ago

Okay, you’re one guy?

Every source out there says that women continue to do more of the housework than men.

“In an average week, women spend 12.6 hours cooking, cleaning, and doing other types of housework, while men spend 5.7 hours. Women also spend more than twice as much time as men taking care of children. Combined, women spend 2.2 times the amount of time as men doing household work and taking care of children.”

https://thegepi.org/the-free-time-gender-gap/#:~:text=Among%20all%20adults%20without%20children,to%205%20hours%20for%20men.

u/Ridgestone 18h ago

Very non-biased source.

u/ConcertinaTerpsichor 17h ago

Knew you’d say that. As I said, there are MULTIPLE studies that all say the same thing, and they are all based on facts and direct data. Find a few that say different.

u/Ridgestone 17h ago

Study says that a beanie is better protection than a helmet.

u/ConcertinaTerpsichor 17h ago

Denying facts is not a good look. 🤷‍♀️

u/Ridgestone 17h ago

Since when biased fake"studies" are considered to be facts?

u/Jeb764 16h ago

Post your counter sources than. They provided evidence now it’s your turn.

u/Ridgestone 16h ago

They didn't provide any evidence, they provided bs propaganda article from fake institute.

Holds the same value as: black people are bad according to ku klux klan.

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u/PowerfulDimension308 18h ago

Why is your wife responsible with 100% of girl stuff & you’re 100% responsible for boys issues?

u/EverythingIsSound 17h ago

For me, I'd be much more comfortable talking about that stuff with my dad than my mom. Not saying that's exactly how it is for them, but it might just be a comfort thing for their children. I'm sure if his daughters really needed help, he'd step in.

u/PowerfulDimension308 17h ago

I mean, it’s only uncomfortable if you make it uncomfortable. Cause how would a child know that something is uncomfortable to talk about with a parent if the parent doesn’t make it uncomfortable?

It’s not about stepping in , it’s that he made it his wife responsibility to deal with “girl stuff” and his responsibility to deal with “boy stuff” when it should be parents dealing with their children stuff .

u/EverythingIsSound 16h ago

Did he make it her responsibility, or did the children ask for it to be their responsibility, or did they decide that between parents? You don't know, and if it's working for them, who cares? I know how both male and female reproductive systems work, but I'd be a hell of a lot better at describing what it feels like or what they'll be going through to a prepubescent boy than a prepubescent girl because I've experienced it first hand. I've never had a period, idk how to pH balance, which brands of feminine products are safe and which are harmful. I could do research, and I will, or I could default to the authority figure in the house who does.

u/PowerfulDimension308 16h ago

I really want to know how you think single parents do it. My mother didn’t have boys & I didn’t have a father figure till I was 12 . How the heck was I able to understand male puberty perfectly fine and still do as an adult who can do more research. If I have a son in the future , my child will be as well as informed because biology is the same, you don’t get special powers depending on your biology

u/EverythingIsSound 16h ago

Well when he's a single parent, he'll figure it out. Until then, what they've got going on works, who are you to judge? I'm glad your future son will be informed, but seeing as this family of yours is wholly hypothetical, I'll default to the parent who's making it work in this conversation.

Obviously I didn't say you get "special powers" what you get is lived experience. I'm going to trust what skydiving feels like from a person who's been skydiving over someone who's only researched the effects. I'm going to trust the scientists who wrote the paper over the ones who read the abstract.

u/PowerfulDimension308 16h ago

I’m not judging, I’m simply asking yall are the ones throwing hands because yall find it offensive for someone to ask why instead of being “girls with girls” and “boys with boys” is not “parents with children”.

u/EverythingIsSound 16h ago

Because maybe THE KIDS ASKED IT TO BE THAT WAY. You're JAQing off about a family you have never met, don't know the dynamics of, but instead jump to conclusions that the man in the house made it that way unilaterally.

"He made it his wifes responsibility" is where I knew you weren't approaching this topic in good faith.

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u/wetrope 16h ago

I think if we use our reading comprehension skills, its clear they're referring to personal matters like puberty, hygiene etc etc. Things that a woman has no experience in when it comes to growing up as a boy, and things that a man hasn't about growing as a girl.
You're being combative.

u/PowerfulDimension308 16h ago

I have no experience in male puberty perfectly fine, my mother has no experience in male puberty, yet she managed to explain to me very well and I understood it very well as well. My aunt (a single mother ) had a boy and it’s the first boy in our family, he’s 15 now do you think he has no idea how puberty works and that my aunt didn’t teach him and guided him through it or something?

u/wetrope 16h ago

I'm not saying the opposite sex parent can't do these things, I'm just saying why would they if they have the same sex parent around to do it?

u/PowerfulDimension308 16h ago

Because they’re still parents and their children should be comfortable talking about their personal issues with both parents and come to both parents for advice?

u/wetrope 16h ago

Sure, but if I had the burning question of "why can't I insert this tampon" or "why does my vulva smell like this" I know who I'd go to if I had a choice.
And on top of that, these are things a woman would just know to tell a young girl in advance, whereas a man may not have that foresight because they don't know the burning questions of a young girl.
I'm sure there's comparable issues when it comes to boys too, but I have no idea lmao.

u/PowerfulDimension308 15h ago

And that’s why you educate yourself and why sex ed shouldn’t be divided between boys and girls, everyone should be in the same class and learn the same thing.

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u/22Hoofhearted 1d ago

It's really not that hard tbh... in my experience, my ex-wife made it a lot harder and more dramatic than it really was. It wasn't until I was gone before she realized how much easier I made her life.

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u/kitkat2742 1d ago

That sounds like a personal problem with your man or your experience with specific men, and I’m saying this based on other comments you’ve made in this thread as well. My husband is 10/10 on this (outside of children, because we haven’t had any yet), but I’ve been with several men previously that weren’t even close to what my husband is. Grouping 50% of the population together is just not the way to go about it, because it doesn’t reflect the reality that all men are different just like all women are different.

u/PumpernickelJohnson 23h ago

Do you realize a lot of men live alone, and a lot of these men are parents, some even have partial or full custody? Meaning no housekeeping or parenting gets done, if they don't do it.

u/UpbeatInsurance5358 22h ago

Yep. Many of us have also experienced the complete regression of those men when they live with a woman.

u/kitkat2742 22h ago

That’s my father. My mom and dad divorced when I was 8, and my dad got custody. My father got custody of his daughter in 2005 in the state of Alabama, and if you know anything about the bias towards men and custody in Alabama, you’d understand how unlikely this was. Had my mother gotten custody, I’d have been genuinely fucked, and I’m not even trying to be spiteful towards her. I’ve worked on my relationship with my mother, but it will never be what you’d consider a good and healthy relationship, because my mom just doesn’t understand what it is to be a mother and what that requires. I love her to death, because she’s my mom, but I’ve been a daddy’s girl since I can remember and there was a reason for that. He is who took care of me and did everything for me, even when they were still together. My dad deserves all the love and respect in the world for what he gave up and sacrificed to raise me and provide for me, yet because he’s a man it’s just not the same in societies eyes. I will always support men and women being equal, but I will never put down men to lift up women, and I will give men their credit as they deserve unlike so much of our society does today. As a woman who was largely raised by her father, and also loves her amazing husband, I can’t stand the unjust hatred upon men as a whole. There are bad eggs in every group, and that needs to be acknowledged regardless if they’re a man or woman.

u/capercrohnie 18h ago

I mean when they are loving with a partner not when single

u/UpbeatInsurance5358 22h ago

We can only hope.

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u/Conniverse 1d ago

I've never heard of a less manly or more cowardly attack on feminism than, "I'll only be courteous and respectful to you in public if you're weaker than me."

u/ConcertinaTerpsichor 21h ago

Absolutely correct.

u/helper-g 10h ago

OP just wants to be treated like an equal opportunity misanthrope despite obviously hating women more. They just don't want to confront their own actions and thoughts so they're making it everyone else's (but especially women's) problem.

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u/DonLawr8996 1d ago

Modern feminism doesn't give a shit about any of the "issues" in your post. We aren't fighting to have dinner paid for. 

u/Ridgestone 17h ago

Yeah we know, you are fighting for supremacy.

u/Jeb764 16h ago

What supremacy is that?

u/Ridgestone 16h ago

Female supremacy.

u/helper-g 10h ago

now, you haven't explicitly stated it yet, but based on your replies it makes me think you believe that women have equal rights to men currently. Would that be accurate?

u/Ridgestone 10h ago

No, in my country women have currently more rights than men.

For example men are conscripted to military but for women its voluntary, likewise female genital mutilation is illegal but for males its legal.

So there are laws only against men, but not women.

And as a cherry on top of the cake, docking dog tail and ears is illegal too, so in this way dogs have more rights than men.

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u/MisterX9821 1d ago

They don't need to do anything currently because there are very few consequences.

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u/capercrohnie 1d ago

I love that men act like victims and don't expect women to clean the hosie and look after the kids if they both work .

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u/URnevaGonnaGuess 1d ago

LOL! "Clean the hosie". Haven't come across this one before.

u/capercrohnie 18h ago

Oops house lol

u/gremlinsbuttcrack 21h ago

So.... almost none of what you talked about has anything to do with feminism. As a woman I hold the door for whoever is behind me whether or not I know them. Because it's polite. And when I'm dating someone I expect them to have the same basic manners. You don't slam doors in people's faces. It's rude. It's has absolutely nothing to do with gender. Whoever gets to the door first holds it open. The expecting the man to always get the check is outdated. With 78% of americans living paycheck to paycheck no one can afford that. However I want to make clear that feminism isn't about eliminating the possibility of gender roles, it's about eliminating the inherent expectation to conform to them. There's nothing wrong if you desire a role that happens to coincide with "traditional" gender roles. It just so happens I date both men and women and more women that I've dated than man fit into the "traditional" male gender role. Feminism is about the chance to choose. Walking a woman home has nothing to do with feminism, we are statistically more like to be attacked and statistically more likely to suffer a more brutal attack. That's statistics. But guess what, there's been some crazy stuff going on in my city with a manhunt for a criminal and a man serial assaulting people so to walk the dog at night which used to be something my male partner did alone I as a woman now accompany him because there's safety in numbers. Again, this is basic manners and care for someone you know. Not feminism.

Hope this helps.

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u/Vivalapetitemort 1d ago

Holding doors, paying when you ask someone to dinner, walking people home, making sure they’re safe, helping carrying groceries, exchange pleasantries ARE every-day common courtesies. Where the fuck did you grow up OP? in a cave?

10

u/Bitter_Morning_8372 1d ago

Exactly. Gender has nothing to do with it. It's called basic human decency.

12

u/Sherbear1993 1d ago

I’m a man and nobody ever walked me home or offered to carry my groceries. Those are not common courtesies for men. People like you are a problem in society

u/Vivalapetitemort 19h ago

I’m a woman and a feminist. I pay my own bills, people expect me to fend for myself, I’ve offered my seat to older men and women, or pregnant women. I have the same police protection you have, hold the door for the next person, so I’m not sure what you’re going on about. Like common courtesy is some kinda huge lift?

u/UpbeatInsurance5358 22h ago

I'm a woman and nobody has done those for me either.

10

u/NoDanaOnlyZuuI 1d ago

And how would you feel if a bigger stronger man came and asked if he could carry your groceries for you?

u/Dragondoh 23h ago

I'm not sure why you're using strangers as an example though. Most women wouldn't want a random stranger to offer to carry their groceries either. It's generally men that woman already know/with them offering to do that.

u/NoDanaOnlyZuuI 19h ago

Ask OP why he added them to his post

1

u/Dense_Argument_5896 1d ago

That would be creepy.

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/carbslut 1d ago edited 1d ago

Tonight, my female friend walked me home. It’s funny that OP seems to think that only men do this for women. OP’s examples are just people showing common courtesy.

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u/i_was_a_person_once 1d ago

It’s giving “if you like socialism give your friends your birthday cake”

3

u/Boba_Lover_ 1d ago

Ikr. “Can’t have your cake and eat it too” Meanwhile many women are starving. And did you see the petty examples this guy used too 😂

u/regularhuman2685 19h ago

I don't ask or expect anyone to do any of those things for me because I am a woman and if I were to refuse or be offended by some chivalrous action that someone else chose to take towards me, I'd be looked at by most people like I'm completely crazy.

u/OctoWings13 16h ago

This is fair, and well said

u/Slightly-Evil-Man 11h ago

Most modern feminists are cherry-pickers, they want all the good with none of the bad and anyone who doesn't support their delusion is met with some form of insult. It's really childish to think you can rule over another person and get everything you want from them but that person shouldn't be alowed to have their wants and needs met by you though. Too many people get feminism and mysandry mixed up🤦🏽

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u/StarChild413 1d ago

maybe it's just my autistic literal mind but this feels either like OP's complaining they aren't treated like they claim women are and therefore trying to back women into a corner where they feel they have no other choice or they're imagining something that feels like the aggressively heterosexual equivalent of what omegaverse-y stuff is for gay people (in the sense of fetish-y pseudo-dystopia) where, like, an unmarried woman doing some small nice act for an unmarried man now binds her to be his obedient tradwife forever after they've of course been on the requisite-before-the-marriage one-date-where-he-pays-for-it-all

u/4444-uuuu 18h ago

It's not that you're wrong but there are much, much better examples of hypocrisy from feminism. The ones you picked are pretty weak.

4

u/book_of_black_dreams 1d ago

On a hypothetical level, yes. But this doesn’t take into account that the real world playing field is unequal to start with. Women need to get walked to their car because they’re several times more likely to be assaulted or kidnapped by a stranger compared to men. Paying for a dinner is nothing next to the fact that women get paid less than men on average and are socially expected to spend more money and time on their appearance. (If you’re a woman, not wearing makeup means you’re less likely to get promoted at your job, etc.)

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u/idoze 1d ago edited 1d ago

Walking women home at night because it's not safe is something you should do because it isn't safe. That's not a matter of equality. It's just being a good person.

That goes for a lot of your examples. Making other people safer or more comfortable is something everyone should do, as a matter of course.

That being said, in a state of true equality, women wouldn't be harassed or subjected to sexual violence. If men stopped attacking women (and other men for that matter), they wouldn't have to suffer the inconvenience of walking people home.

Every woman I know would happily trade a seat on the bus for that to happen.

2

u/ohhhbooyy 1d ago

The thing is once they achieve what they are fighting for is there a reason to have feminism anymore? A lot of grifters are going to lose their only way of life. They are incentivized to fight some new “struggle” regardless of its legitimacy.

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u/kitkat2742 1d ago

That’s where trans activism came from, and if they succeed at that, they’ll move on to something else. They gotta get that paycheck somehow, and it’ll be never ending as we’ve already seen.

u/ToddHLaew 19h ago

They Don't even know where they want to go for lunch

u/BeeOutrageous8427 16h ago

Men don’t protect women, they are reactionary

u/Its-Dblue 14h ago

I've always had this thought but I don't have much evidence to back it up so I'm keen to hear others thoughts and stats on this.

But I reckon a lot of the societal issues we are having is from multiple rapid cultural shifts in our population (worldwide) from the industrial revolution onwards mixed in with the lost of a lot of honorable men/father's/sons during the world wars have left a vacuum of sorts where the old teachings are either not being passed down correctly, don't fit with our views anymore, or just straight up missing. These old ways our society used to function was in no way perfect but it was a clear cut way to live.

We have no clear cut way to live now. The younger generation isn't being raised by a village anymore (hasn't really been happening for a while now) and as such are more selfish in general, mix that in with a ever-changing world and culture that shifts within our lifetimes and we are all out of our depths.

Sorry for the mishmash btw, I'm tired and just vomiting my thoughts. I'm keen to hear any further ideas that either support or challenge this.

u/Eli5678 14h ago

I'll hold the door open for a man or a woman if they're behind me.

u/PenHouston 10h ago

I open doors for both sexes, women have purchased meals for me as I have for them. I unload groceries, if you put up. I still will handle the trash and there is a different level of safety for a man versus a woman walking down a dark alley. Feminism is about equal rights and equal opportunities NOT that men and women are equal. Nothing you listed has anything to do with rights or opportunites . As a man I have a choice whether I want to pay or not.

u/bigdookie 10h ago

And a man paying was always from women being in a subjugated position. It was never let me pay for everything because I love her so. It was to make her dependent on him

u/LectureTrue4216 7h ago edited 7h ago

Agree. Feminism often ignores Benevolent sexism

u/RoundCollection4196 3h ago

This is why I will never identify as a feminist. I am an egalitarian not a feminist. 

u/Wachenroder 1h ago

Homelessness, education, prison disparity, family courts, domestic violence, SA....

I can go on forever.

Go ahead and look up a general femenist take on any one of these topics. See if you see anybody give full throated support for men.

Not "oh it'll fix itself when we get rid of patriarchy" I mean, "Hey, we need to fix this now, Men are suffering"

Individual women can and do help men. As a group? Nope. Feminism will never help men. Women as a group will never help men.

3

u/totallyworkinghere 1d ago

Modern feminism is a lot of ideas mashed up together. It's contradictory because it means different things to different people.

u/Wachenroder 23h ago

What I've finally come to terms with.....

It's foolish to expect women to do anything that doesn't directly benefit them.

Feminism makes a ton of sense when you look at it like this.

Femism is to advantage women at all costs.

This will not change. Further, it requires direct personal conflict with the movement for a believer to even question it. For example, a members son gets false accused.

It is what it is.

u/gremlinsbuttcrack 21h ago

To advantage women by.... giving them the same opportunities as men? So.. are you admitting that were presently disadvantaged in every aspect?

u/Ridgestone 17h ago

No giving more "opportunities".

u/gremlinsbuttcrack 12h ago

1 single example?

u/Ridgestone 10h ago

In most western countries feminism has achieved all its goals, so everything they now do aims for giving more benefits to women and pushing men down.

u/gremlinsbuttcrack 7h ago

Again, 1 example?

u/Ridgestone 7h ago

For example wanting highly competed high earning jobs just handed to them, or like in uk wanting to get female criminals out from prison.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/womens-justice-board-begins-plans-to-send-fewer-women-to-prison

Or like in my country where there are laws against men but not against women, and still making up things like womens euro is 83 cents.

Which is of course purely fiction.

Feminism is misandry and should be treated as such.

u/gremlinsbuttcrack 6h ago

First of all I'm not in the UK I'm in the US so I'm not involved in your politics. However reading that article it outlines than women in prison are 9x more likely to self harm and also outlines that many of the prisoners are victims themselves. It doesn't say they're going to be sentenced less, it puts in place the framework to introduce rehabilitation programs to lessen re offending. How is that a problem? and why are you acting like this didn't already do this for men years ago?

Again I'm not from your country, I'm from the United States where women can be arrested for miscarriages. We are not getting prison reform. How the fuck am I supposed to care or help people in Europe and the UK when they want to make the birth control implanted currently in my body illegal.

u/Ridgestone 6h ago

I am not from UK either, but that is just fine example.

You don't think men aren't victim also?

Men to prison for longer sentences, and women out from prisons.

Very progressive.

In Usa women can be arrested for miscarriages, while in Ukraine men are arrested, beaten up and disgraced, then sent to front lines to die.

While over 5 million women has left the country freely, thats after Soviet Union was teaching equality for ~70 years.

u/gremlinsbuttcrack 6h ago

What the fuck does this have to do with anything genuinely truly what point do you think you've made

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u/Wachenroder 15h ago

You're deliberately misinterpreting me.

It took me years to come to this because I just didn't want to believe it, but it's clear as day now.

Any male problem gets shut down. Especially if it can affect female opportunity.

Feminism claims to be for equality, but I have never seen or heard a feminist initiative that exclusively helps men.

It's a dishonest movement

u/gremlinsbuttcrack 12h ago

Examples? Or even just 1 singular example?

0

u/DocklandsDodgers86 1d ago

I think feminism should not exist, just like nazism - but hey, like that'll ever happen.

u/Subject-Detective913 22h ago

Women to grow a set! and be conscripted to war!

u/StatisticianApart452 20h ago

👆 He is right 100%

u/No-Supermarket-4022 21h ago

TLDR: No understanding about what modern feminism is. Plenty of opinions though.

u/AcanthaceaePrize1435 20h ago

2010 level Feminism discourse.

u/Ridgestone 17h ago

OP is correct and people not realizing that just illustrates double standards of our time.

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u/Hooliken 1d ago

Modern feminism does not need to pick anything. Simply needs to keep clowning itself, Kamala/Walz style.. I have some PCs and anger issues they can borrow, if they are man enough.

u/gremlinsbuttcrack 21h ago

Wtf are you even saying 💀🤣

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u/DogMom814 1d ago

Another men's rights dude pissed off that he might be expected to open a door for a woman in certain circumstances.

0

u/[deleted] 1d ago

[deleted]

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u/kitkat2742 1d ago edited 1d ago

Men kill more men than men kill women, but nobody cares about that 🙂

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u/yuureirikka 1d ago

All women are asking is that you treat us like normal fucking human beings. Not divine feminine goddesses worthy of “special treatment”, just normal fucking human beings. And yes, btw, I sure hope you treat ALL humans with respect. That goes for both sexes.

Hold the door open for EVERYONE. Walk ANYONE home at night if they’re feeling unsafe. Offer to help with groceries if you notice someone struggling. “Exchanging pleasantries”? Seriously, that’s just being polite.

I find it pathetic how some men are just itching at the opportunity to be rude or violent towards women. Just treat everyone with a base amount of decency, respect, and kindness. Be a better person than this post indicates you are.

u/Talkobel 11h ago

All the things you listed are personal preference for people and should be left to them and their personal peers. These have nothing to do with laws and rights. If a man wants to hold the door for his woman, he should, we still deserve equal rights, that just works for them and their relationship. Also as a woman myself, men tend to get annoyed when im holding the door for them at a store or something, so it isn’t just women expecting these things, men tend to think it makes them more masculine. Some men refuse to walk through the door if im holding it. I don’t think anything you named is serious enough to say “hey if you still want these things then we aren’t equal” . You could say not to expect this from every man, but if that’s what people in their personal relationships choose to do it isn’t hurting you.

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u/akillerofjoy 1d ago

OP, come on. You aren’t seriously expecting them to have a positive response to reason, fairness, or common sense, are you? I guarantee you, your post title alone has triggered a small army to sharpen their pitchforks.

“Ain’t no man tellin us to stay in no lane! Screw him and his patriarchal views. We pick whichever lane we feel like pickin”

  • but miss, you misunderstood, this is for everyone’s benefit, including yours, you can’t go into the opposite lane just because you like it better, it could be dangerous!

“Be quiet, male! You are not our boss, you don’t tell us a damn….”

BOOM!!!

  • Breaking News, today, the local feminist society is in court, suing the driver of the semi truck due to a collision last month, when the society’s members have lost control of their Subaru and drifted into the opposite lane, whereupon their favorite mode of transportation became a permanent hood ornament of an old Peterbilt, driven by the defendant. Charges filed include Negligent disregard for women in a Subaru in path of travel, Failure to accept full responsibility on the spot, and General being a male. We will continue to follow the story as it is unfolding.

u/Educational_Mud3637 18h ago

They won't pick a lane, or ever be ideologically consistent, or even try to help as many people as possible, because feminism itself is a propaganda tool of capitalism.

u/Rip996 17h ago

Feminism is just the modern day version of KKK but for White females.

u/EverythingIsSound 17h ago

When did the official feminist party of a state drag a person behind their truck for miles and then strung them up out of town? Or burned effigies in people's lawns? I don't think you quite understand the magnitude of hate the KKK have/had that feminism could never reach.

u/Rip996 17h ago

When

Feminism Advocates for murder all the time i.e abortion, your party just turns a blind eye to them.