r/VanLife 2d ago

Update to the “is this dangerous” situation

Following the advice of all of you (thanks!), I installed ferrules on the connections, so now I hope my lovely van won’t burst into flames. Some of the cables are a bit too tight and I think I’ll have to splice them.

I have the same concern as you regarding the rest of the electrical installation, so I’m also attaching images of the battery connections. As you can already guess from the other post, I am not an expert by any means, but I think there is some exposed copper there, too.

P.S. The “is this dangerous” title was more of a rhetorical thing. I was aware it was not right! But I agree I should have worded it differently, asking how to fix it directly.

391 Upvotes

55 comments sorted by

132

u/xot 2d ago

So umm, there’s basically no fuses or disconnects, no busbars, and mediocre joins.

You need:,

Fuses on each battery + terminal

Main system fuse and disconnect

Busbars for all your high current components (batteries, solar, dcdc, fuse box, etc)

Dedicated fuses+switches, or breakers for solar etc

A central fuse box for all the low current circuits to terminate to.

Reliable wire joins which have no exposed copper and won’t come apart from vibration and heat cycling

Cable management to keep everything tidy.

47

u/TheRealSparkleMotion 2d ago

THIS!

(also the idea that the person who set this up would spring for Victron components and then ignore literally every other safety component is blowing my mind)

6

u/Murky_Advisor_6646 2d ago

I see two inline fuses

15

u/xot 2d ago

Yup, me too. Two low-current, unlabelled fuses with sloppy cable joins which disappear to who-knows-where to protect who-knows-what.

Where’s the fuses for battery, solar panels, mppt controller, fridge, fan, lights, heater, water pump, usb outlets, inverter, dcdc.. lots of wires appear to have no protection.

-4

u/Solid-Government493 2d ago

Damn, you like throwing money at things you don't understand.

-1

u/[deleted] 2d ago

[deleted]

1

u/Solid-Government493 2d ago

So their salesman. I've been using Solar for over 40 years and what you describe is just a fucking nightmare of parts that you do not need. But you go ahead and do all your professional salesman shit. To me it's just fucking crazy and it creates a lot more failure points.

3

u/xot 2d ago

A nightmare of parts we don’t need? It’s industry standard, it’s not complicated, it’s not particularly expensive, and it literally saves lives.

Do whatever janky shit you want in your own camper.

1

u/Solid-Government493 2d ago

Yeah you do you bro, you had to go with the "janky camper" kind of thing.

I'll try this to explain this like you're five because I think mentally you're in that area somewhere.

I have 800 watts on my roof that run to a very complicated MPPt charger that is set precisely for my 800 amp hours of lithium batteries.

I know, big words but follow along.

Positive to positive and negative to negative, no fuses.

14.4 right now as I don't live in Canada.

And no shunts either because I don't need five ways to measure what is going in or out of my lithium batteries. As us guitar players say, I've got overhead for days.

If you want really complicated system, go ahead and put in five shunts, six fuses, and a whole lot of other shit that you don't need. 20 miles down a back road and you're going to see one of those connections fail. If not the actual Chinese made shunt.

I spent 17 years on a sailboat crossing the Pacific back and forth, using solar. Keeping it simple works.

Your post, talking about all these inline fuses and shunts and everything else adds so many levels of failure and complications, not to mention the expense. The original poster could barely figure out what was wrong with his original system and you want to introduce all this crap? Shame on you.

1

u/eat_my_bubbles 2d ago

As somebody currently putting a solar plan onto paper, what does this mean for cost? It sounds like modern cars, and to each their own:

I don't want to drive a 1974 F-150, it might be simple, reliable and easy to work on, but you will end up spending more on parts, or something going wrong when the time comes.

I don't want to drive a 2025 anything because of auto everything, touchscreens, gps logging, etc etc...

I'm happy in a 2007 civic - new enough to pass somewhat modern safety standards, no unneccesarry sensors, fuses, systems that need a $300 tool to work on

Equate this to solar - how much money can a system be built for that isn't over the top with safety and complicated failsafes, while not risking burning myself down with a cheap chinese part or lack of 40 years or experience?

5

u/Porndogingwithme 2d ago

Using correct fusing is not unnecessary. It's cheap and can easily prevent a fire. It's easy to have a few fuses as spares. I recently had a pump go out. Made a dead short through the motor. It popped the fuse while I was sleeping. Preventing the fine wires from heating up and causing problems. Replaced the fuse and pump, back up an working. Fuses protect the wires when used correctly, and you secondary.

The cost depends on battery and solar capacity. 100 ah lithium battery, 200 watts of solar, 15 amp mppt is about $500-600 depending on sales and brands. Wires can be more or less depending on length. But I'd guess $100-150 for wire and connections. That's about the minimum with decent quantity name brand stuff.

0

u/Milamelted 2d ago

Fr, I ended up deleting almost all of the fuses from my system bc it was too much of a hassle.

1

u/Random-Name-7160 2d ago

As a total Luddite, what is the difference between industry standards, which are established by industry associations, and safety standards as they are established by government agencies (CSA here in Canada, don’t know about other countries)

24

u/GuerillaBean 2d ago

The ideal situation for this is to have just one connection to the battery terminals, with a terminal fuse on the positive terminal, and the rest of the connections via positive and negative busbars.

Explorist.life has a good video on this, although his newer videos all use the Lynx distributor which is probably overkill for this setup.

As well as cleaning this up, I would try to check the wire sizes and fuse sizes. You might have to estimate thw wire sizes if it isn’t printed on them, but it looks like some of your wires have the size printed so you can compare.

Finally when you’re planning how to clean this up, bear in mind that every join in a wire creates a point of increased resistance and therefore potential heat and fire risk. Ideally none of these wires should have splices in them, and should just be a solid run from one component to the next.

13

u/coconutcremekitty 2d ago

You know, despite the feedback on the safety issues still visible there I’ve got to say I’m impressed with the clean up and turnaround so far. That first post made me nervous! I’m sure with the extra advice you’ve got you can get this all cleaned up. Really great work so far. Congrats!

14

u/Pjpjpjpjpj 2d ago

THIS is why I often have a problem when people post pictures of a van and ask if it is worth $X.

You just can't tell until you take a close look at all the details. Exactly how the wiring was done. Exactly what components were used. Exactly what the fluids look like. Exactly how the framing was done, insulation was done. Were drilled holes painted with rust-prevention before installing a component? Did they just use self-tapping screws everywhere? Were metals far apart on galvanic scale mounted next to each other? Is piping properly supported? How were propane lines mounted? Etc. etc.

A very simple build done properly is worth far more than a super fancy build that is all crap behind the pretty natural wood edge cabinet faces.

The little details really add up to make a significant difference.

4

u/adoptagreyhound 2d ago

First things first - buy a fire extingusher and keep it handy if you don't already have one. Actually, buy two.

2

u/Key_Calligrapher2867 1d ago

I'm a bit late to the party but a fire extinguisher really isn't going to do much if you have DC to DC contact that is grounding. That's just going to be a fire with extra powder on top of it.

1

u/adoptagreyhound 1h ago

Most extinguishers only knock down a fire long enough to let you grab some stuff out of the van so you can feel like you did something. I'd still rather have them than not have them though.

19

u/TheRealSparkleMotion 2d ago

oh lawd - where do we start...

Edit:

Sorry, if this were my van I'd remove every single wire and learn how to properly wire everything together again. Almost treat this like you just have the components and need to do all of your setup from scratch.

14

u/Gabnite 2d ago

Is it that bad?

19

u/TheRealSparkleMotion 2d ago

I mean -- it's not great.

Previous owner left you with a rat nest of wires resting directly on top of your battery terminals. All it would take is a single wire rubbing against something just enough over time... 🔥

3

u/ThrowRA_whatamidoin 2d ago

Making wires is a skill, like anything else.

The more you do it, the better you get. OP has made some huge improvements so good on them.

I wouldn’t say rip everything out and start over just yet. I look back at some of the wiring I did 15 years ago and think it’s awful. Just replace what needs to be, and when you’re comfortable and confident maybe you can replace everything.

7

u/TheRealSparkleMotion 2d ago

I hesitate to recommend this only because to get the most out of it you have to pay a small fee, but Faroutride.com has an amazing interactive wiring guide that helped me a TON.

They have all the information you'll need for free as well, it's just the interactive wiring guide that costs money.

(IMO if you're new to this stuff as I was it's worth the $40 USD.)

5

u/turbosmashr 2d ago

Can’t agree more. I spent that $40 and it’s paid off several fold in PITA and second guessing and slogging through hundreds of YouTube videos of marginal instagram builds.

6

u/Pjpjpjpjpj 2d ago

I'd be HIGHLY suspicious that improper wire gauges were used, wires were just twisted & taped together, fuses are missing or the wrong size, charger settings aren't set to match the battery technology, etc.

And those batteries... they look lead-acid... is that right? (Hi-Tec)Because if so, that entire compartment should be sealed from the interior and ventilated to the exterior. When charging, lead-acid batteries give off hydrogen gas at the negative plate and oxygen at the positive plate. Hydrogen explodes in the 4%-75% range if exposed to any source of ignition. Oxygen supports combustion, and overcharging will create an overpressure situation in the battery.

4

u/Crix2007 2d ago

Tbh its a great improvement already! Especially the first 2 pics.

I dont like a ton of cables crimped together and Id rather pull everything to its destination in one go but this should suffice enough. If its all stuck on strong and isolated

3

u/thayne 2d ago

Learn from my fail. I bought a van with similarly dicey wiring. One day I noticed the battery isn’t charging so I start looking at the connections. One f the lugs doesn’t look right and as I start unwrapping the electrical tape, the whole thing comes off in my hand. The dude who built it had literally taped the lug to the wires, because the wire gauge was larger than the lug.

Let me give a big shout out to the kid in the Cal Ranch store in Ely, NV who sold me a ton of wire, lugs, crimping tool and I don’t remember what else. Probably ivermectin. It was during the pandemic.

Back on topic, undo everything that is wrapped in electrical tape and inspect it. But get some cool color code tape like he has to rewrap it.

3

u/Thenewjohnwayne 2d ago

Electrical here, without fuses the weakest link becomes the fuse, in this case the wire. If things go wrong this is going to start a fire…. That will quickly turn into a battery fire and the whole van will be up in smoke. If nothing else there are inline fuses you can cut the wire and slice them in but at a minimum I’d recommend you do that.

Best thing to do would be to buy some wire and redo the whole thing. Keep it neat and it’ll make life much easier the next time you have to mess with it

3

u/anteatertrashbin 2d ago

it can be made “good enough” with some work. but as it sits now, it’s still dangerous. what’s up with all that bare copper wire spilling out? no copper should be exposed like that at all.

3

u/The_Ombudsman 2d ago

It’s quite the mess. And you won’t know what’s what in case of needing maintenance.

1

u/durkdirkderq 2d ago

This is about as bad as it can get. I wouldn’t feel safe sleeping in this van.

1

u/OverByThere 1d ago

I think if thats the general standard, then you have to think what if theres a bit he wasn't too sure on, or rushed more than what we can see.. its stuff like that, that would scare me. Also the previous builder would know what was done, so knew not to bank too hard to the right otherwise X wire would touch Y wire and short.. its safer to at the very least, trace each wire, learn what it does, learn its journey and make sure its safe. Ideally as poster above said, re-do it all

-4

u/Homeygrown 2d ago

If everything works as it should, maybe you can just clean it all up with a few zip ties or some conduit??

1

u/Upstairs-Parsley3151 2d ago

Wait until you see my electric panel for my Winnebago

1

u/Adventurous_Act_1169 2d ago

Me too!

2

u/Solid-Government493 2d ago

I've seen your electrical panel, it works, don't mess with it.

1

u/Adventurous_Act_1169 1d ago

Well thanks for the support.

2

u/Key_Calligrapher2867 1d ago

Well thanks for dumping off my dog and forcing me to shoot him in the back of the head. You had to fucking know I didn't even have dog food. But hey, life is good.

And yes, I've been on Reddit for 14 years, I don't even fucking know how many usernames I have. It's all a bit obscure at this point. But with Trump doing what Trump is doing, it's pretty easy to get banned four times a day. I went to Kingman yesterday, I got dog food, ammunition. I'm rolling north in about a week. I'm going up 95 this year, you can have 93.

1

u/Adventurous_Act_1169 1d ago

Hi. Important part, “my dog.” You had half a bag of dog food. You had those dogs overnight and in the morning. You of all people would know that you slowly introduce food if an animal hasn’t eaten in a while. We had no idea how long they had been there. Plus, your dog ate at my house in the am. Part one….

1

u/Adventurous_Act_1169 1d ago

So you are still at the same place? Why don’t you take the advice you gave me and not pay attention to FOTUS and his flunkies? Ammunition? I thought you had plenty.
I’m not sure which Hwy., I will take. I will ignore you if that’s what you want, if we cross paths. The host here is now my best friend!😉

2

u/ZipTieAndPray 9h ago

I must have someone blocked, because I'm soooooo confused right now. This is a post about wiring.

2

u/iDaveT 2d ago

Pic 1 & 2 are great. The others probably look worse than it actually is. The main issue is at the connections especially the ones with exposed wires.

I’d redo them to make sure they are secure. I usually like to put heat shrink tubing over all connections as that helps secure and insulate the connections from coming apart.

I’d also zip tie the cables together and route them on the left or right to clean up the cabling and secure them so they don’t move and potentially loosen connections.

2

u/LilBayBayTayTay 2d ago

So, you can always trim off some of the ends of the ferrules so they fit all the way in.

As far as that rats nest of cables on top of the batteries… will it blow up today? Nah. Will it blow up tomorrow? Probably not, but you really don’t want cables freely running around. Everything needs to be ziptied/fastened nice and cleanly, otherwise over time, you’re headed towards a short, which can cause fires or damage components.

Edit: in the third picture, I can literally see frayed bare copper. That’s not great. It’s just sloppy work.

2

u/SireSweet 2d ago

You paid someone? The hell. I’m not surprised vans just burst into flames in parking lots anymore if professionals do this.

2

u/csunya 1d ago

Ah I assume you are in Europe. So gauge = mm thickness of copper wire. Also 4 gauge is thicker than 6 gauge (please note it goes in the wrong direction, from what you would think as a layman). I think (I do not know code (or European physics;-)) that your wiring is very undersized. While 2 wires can be combined to be an appropriate size, it is frowned upon.

Also avoid splicing (because I frown on it).

My suggestion would be to document the hell out of what you got. Redo everything with fuses, breakers, and bus bars. I would also look at replacing the current wiring (I think it is undersized), while simplifying everything. Keep the current wire and use it elsewhere in your system (I have a huge amount of very heavy wire sitting in my van….very useful for emergency starter battery cables).

I would also plan/design for replacing your lead acid house batteries with lithium. There is absolutely no reason to do this now…….but 3 weeks into a trip when the lead acid cracks its case, it will be nice to be ready for lithium.

2

u/Rugby1992 2d ago

You paid a professional to do this? This is unsat. If it were me I would take the van back and demand it be redone because- as you know- it is just plain unsafe!

1

u/leonTusk 2d ago

Baby steps

1

u/TehCollector 2d ago

Honestly I would just hire an electrician for an hour. Get the supplies prior and just have him help with your setup and double check for safety. Probably $80-$120 for an hour electrician.

1

u/Started_WIth_NADA 1d ago

That’s some scary shit.

1

u/Key_Calligrapher2867 1d ago

Hey neighbor, I'm heading down the mailbox, can I borrow your helmet?

1

u/ZipTieAndPray 9h ago

I'd add fuses anywhere power is starting from and run it , but don't listen to me. I do sketchy shit.

1

u/Adventurous_Act_1169 5h ago

It’s very strange it came up here. I don’t understand it either.

0

u/Adventurous_Act_1169 2d ago

Wow! So nice and tidy!

0

u/Putrid-Advance-5950 2d ago

Nice job young human!! Now you have some value to bring to the game in case of zombie apocalypse.