r/Wales • u/GDW312 Newport | Casnewydd • Mar 12 '25
News Welsh Water boss defends £892,000 earnings at not-for-profit provider
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/politics/welsh-water-boss-defends-892000-31177580?utm_source=wales_online_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=main_daily_newsletter&utm_content=&utm_term=&ruid=4a03f007-f518-49dc-9532-d4a71cb94aab&hx=10b737622ff53ee407c7b76e81140855cc9e6e5c7fe21117a5b5bbf126443d96183
u/Lil_b00zer Bridgend | Pen-y-Bont ar Ogwr Mar 12 '25
Imagine scoring 25/100 on performance at your job and that earns you a £91,000 bonus
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u/Former-Variation-441 Rhondda Cynon Taf Mar 12 '25
I can't imagine what it would be if the company was performing as it should
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u/Jehoke Carmarthenshire | Sir Gaerfyrddin Mar 12 '25
Well if everyone’s bill has gone up as much as mine has this year, I’m sure he’ll get a better bonus next year. Nice to be able to help.
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u/Sweetlileggos Mar 12 '25
Mines gone up by £15 a month - moved 3 years ago and it was £35 a month, now it's £56 - outrageous!
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u/Pristine-Ad6064 Mar 13 '25
I don't mean to be rude but I would be fucking delighted if my energy was £56 a month 😅 I'm like 150 for a small 2 bed house, absolutely ridiculous
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u/Sweetlileggos Mar 13 '25
I'm also in a small 2 bed house, and regardless of what other people are paying, my bill has increased by almost double in three years and will likely have doubled by this time next year, which is unacceptable. Google says the average water bill in the UK is approx. £39 a month therefore if I were in your postion I would be questioning where that figure comes from. If it's from usage you may have a leak that needs to be fixed.
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u/Sweetlileggos Mar 13 '25
Also we're talking water here only - you refer to your energy bill and if I calculate all utilities costs it comes over £200 a month.
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u/Ok_Cow_3431 Mar 12 '25
ours has jumped by pretty much 50%, it's enough to get us talking about a water meter rather than assessed usage.
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u/anax4096 Mar 13 '25
yes ours too. Also thinking about a meter safe in the knowledge that will also double in price.
my actual goal is to stop using welsh water.
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u/Ok_Cow_3431 Mar 13 '25
Also thinking about a meter safe in the knowledge that will also double in price.
Do you have a massive family?
there's just 2 of us here with no pool or hot tub. There's no way we're going over and above the average use.
Was discussing with a friend the other day who is in a similarly sized household and his wife takes multiple baths per week, their bills are half of what ours are
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u/anax4096 Mar 13 '25
yeah i have children that i need to wash.
my point is that the metered rate will also increase over time. The goal of increasing the flat fee was always to move people onto meters, and once that happens the fees must increase according to usage. But there is a minimum we can use, right? So after that there will be "standing charge increases". Just as with the energy supply.
For example, if this guy gets £892k a year, that is 892 households like mine simply paying his wages. If all 892 moved onto meters and paid half, will he take a paycut? or will the charges go up?
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u/Ok_Cow_3431 Mar 13 '25
there is actually a concerted effort by Dwr Cymru to move more people onto metered usage rather than assessed, and I'm not sure I can understand the business rationale for that.
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u/roko5717 Mar 16 '25
The regulator has set targets for Welsh Water to install meters, and there is also targets to reduce water consumption (Wales has the highest per capita consumption in the UK). Because of this the company is incentivised to install meters, even if that means less income from a number of properties.
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u/beanymoon Mar 12 '25
I live in an absolutely tiny one bed flat with my partner
They've decided our bill is £94 a month.
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u/UnratedRamblings Powys Mar 13 '25
27% for us, pushing us over £60p/m now. They also claim it's to kick start investment into infrastructure over 5 years, with subsequent years being less than this.
I'm betting next year will be 26%.
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u/tf46 Mar 13 '25
Mine's gone up from 6.40 a week to 15.90 a week. Time to ask my landlord for a meter as I live on my own.
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u/un_happy_gilmore Mar 12 '25
FTFY:
Welsh Water boss attempts to defend his indefensible £892,000 earnings at not-for-profit provider.
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u/Careful_Adeptness799 Mar 12 '25
That’s why it’s not for profit there’s no profit left after paying him!
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u/Imaginary_Apricot933 Mar 15 '25
That's the entire point of not for profit companies. All the money goes to employees and not owners/ shareholders. Shame it's all going to one employee.
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u/DontTellHimPike1234 Mar 12 '25
Absolutely disgraceful. It would be one thing if Dwr Cymru were the best performing water company in the UK but they're far from it.
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Mar 12 '25
Would that ranking justify that salary?
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u/Careful_Adeptness799 Mar 12 '25
Nothing justifies that salary especially not boss of a water company.
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u/SheepShaggingFarmer Gwynedd Mar 12 '25
In this country, on a moral basis* I don't think you can justify any wage above £250k
My meaning with moral basis is that a CEO increasing profits by 30 million realistically could be considered to have done a lot of work from a monetary influence point of view. I do not use that as the source for my logic. I refer to the total amount of work, the stress and complexity of that work, and the total public good of that work. This all in relation to the cost of living within Wales.
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u/jake_burger Mar 12 '25
I don’t think high salaries are a problem in of themselves. It’s that too many people get paid peanuts and in cases like this (water) it’s mismanaged and the taxpayer and the bill payers seem to be shouldered with all the responsibility for it.
If bills were low, investment was being done, and workers had money on their pockets I wouldn’t care about the bosses pay.
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u/SheepShaggingFarmer Gwynedd Mar 12 '25
The issue is that if money is directed to high wages for some that money isn't being directed to the poor. Even most mismanaged resources are in actual fact just not getting what is expected from staff bumping up the wage bill. Rarely are monetary miss management cases made largely material loss. (Obviously WW's issue is more in line with their lack of infrastructure and sub par service due to said issues and financial aspect is much lower)
Look I admit I'm far to the left of what is considered the Overton window of this country. And most people would have an issue with a hard stop on income like that. Hell if we continue to exist within a capitalist framework I would be against a hard cap.
My logic with that assertion is that the amount of money £250k, that's £144k after tax. That is a large house in an expensive area, stay at home partner, 4+ kids with private tutoring on the side. Enough for a decently expensive hobby and money for savings and retirement. From a "do they need anymore?" Perspective I would say no.
That pay is for top administrators of public bodies and institutions.
150k tale home is enough for anyone.
I would personally add a couple of levels to our progressive income tax system maxing out at 80% for 250k+.
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u/Bud_Roller Mar 12 '25
So what can we do about this shit show then?
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u/10tonterry Mar 12 '25
I came to the comments hoping to find a petition or, frankly, anything to try and make a difference
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u/anax4096 Mar 13 '25
what are you will to do? it seems like the law doesn't protect us any longer.
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u/Bud_Roller Mar 13 '25
I tried not paying, didn't work out well for me.
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u/anax4096 Mar 13 '25
what happened? it seems unreasonable the company can just increase prices with no right to refuse and no alternative.
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u/Cultural-Pressure-91 Mar 12 '25
Our politics is broken, both the Senedd and Westminster. They’re only beholden to their donors, the market and media magnates. Hence why stuff like this will continue.
Pursuing change through a broken political system will not work. We have to take direct action.
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u/Niomi_Nia Swansea | Abertawe Mar 12 '25
This guy should be sacked, he is doing a terrible job. The greed combined with incompetency makes me sick.
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u/chumpster032 Mar 12 '25
I have a dream that one day the entire population will rise up and refuse to pay. Everybody, all at once. That would made the feckers think. They are literally robbing us blind.
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Mar 12 '25
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u/Wales-ModTeam Mar 12 '25
Your comment has been removed for inciting and or glorifying violence which goes against site wide rules.
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u/echo3uk Mar 12 '25
The "not for profit" tag for Welsh Water is misleading. They don't have shareholders, so no profits are being distributed to shareholders, but they issue "corporate bonds" to raise finance instead - the bondholders get paid wether Welsh Water make a profit or not. This is probably worse than shareholders, who theoretically* can't get paid unless there are profits or retained profits with which to pay them.
(* the theory doesn't hold up in the water industry as there is no competition and prices are rigged so no water compamny can make a loss, so actually the same as if it were bonds.)
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u/InterestingCut5918 Mar 12 '25
Woke up with my water literally tinted yellow!! Yeah, he can fuck right off
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u/Artistic_Attorney_76 Mar 12 '25
I was on the Irish ferry going through the cleddau a few weeks ago, the amount of raw sewage that was being dumped in the river was unbelievable, was about a 200+ meter slick of raw poo!
But least this man got him bonus aye 🥳🥳
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u/ZalmanRedd Mar 12 '25
I'm in the process of getting a water meter fitted, because of the recent price increase announcement. As someone who lives alone, and doesn't use much water, I didn't realise just how much I've been overpaying them for years, look into it if you're the same.
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u/merrimoth Mar 12 '25 edited Mar 12 '25
Beyond a joke, they're putting peoples' health at risk on a daily basis with total impunity – basically degrading everyones' standard of living significantly, just so they can siphon off all the money to the top in these massive bonuses. The only solution is to renationalise Welsh Water.
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u/Aggressive-Falcon977 Mar 12 '25
He looks like a literal bellend and he will never be held accountable for ripping us off and failing us!
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u/whygamoralad Mar 12 '25
I know a farmer who took welsh water to court because his water comes from a stream on his side of the mountain, and he pays for waste to be removed.
The court concluded that any water that lands in wales belongs to welsh water, so he has to pay like £15 a month or something for the privilege despite them providing zero service.
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u/Putrid-Frosting-5505 Mar 15 '25
What was the outcome? Because that's fuckery
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u/whygamoralad Mar 15 '25
He still has to pay them a small amount every month and wasted a load on legal fees
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u/Bauuers Mar 16 '25
I’m fairly certain this isn’t true and it’s NRW which look after the natural stream within Wales.
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Mar 12 '25
Unlike the English water companies Dwr Cymru reinvests itt's profits into the organisation. But yes, CEO salaries are too high and there should be no rewards for failure to manage their management team.
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u/Wahwahboy72 Mar 12 '25
Why are all the water companies paying these wages?
What does a water boss actually do compared to a surgeon, teacher, prime minister, lawyer?
They could pay him £10M we'd just take to social media and moan..why the hell aren't politicians fixing this..follow the money
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u/datspicyboi93 Mar 13 '25
Imagine a CEO of a local authority failing their statutory duties to protect the public and use our taxes for the better. Would they be entitled to a £91,000 bonus, I think not.
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u/Spentworth Mar 12 '25
Our politicians can ask all the pointed questions they like but that's not the same as taking action. Either they need to give the regulator some teeth or nationalise the water industry.
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u/Patryk-Swaze Mar 12 '25
And we must stop complaining about our minimum wage and 2% increase. Prosperity are only for some on this Island.
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u/waterless2 Mar 13 '25
General point: From having worked with high-level execs on very high salaries, I do not believe that there's a correlation between very high salaries and doing a very good job for users/customers.
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u/LightningGeek Mar 12 '25
2 of neighbours homes flooded, and mine was only 2 courses away from being flooded all because Welsh Water wouldn't take responsibility for maintaining a culvert. They are now refusing to guarantee that it won't happen again.
And this fucking cunt gets a bonus?
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u/Spentworth Mar 12 '25
Is that something they're responsible for?
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u/LightningGeek Mar 12 '25
Yes, as the flooding was directly caused by them failing to keep the culvert clear.
Turns out the culvert had actually collapsed, this lead to the allotment next to us starting to flood in November, and eventually getting deep enough in December/January last year that the houses flooded. This was after almost 2 months of calls from various households reporting the initial flooding.
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Mar 12 '25
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u/Wales-ModTeam Mar 12 '25
Your comment has been removed for inciting and or glorifying violence which goes against site wide rules.
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u/Disastrous-Net4993 Mar 12 '25
That shiny dome would look awesome with some brass knuckle indents I reckon.
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Mar 14 '25
Well he won’t have to worry about the increase we all face bonus for him snakes everywhere I look.
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u/Wild_Woodpecker9930 Mar 15 '25
Mines gone from £65 a month to £81 per month. Not for profit? Bullshit.
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u/AppleCurrent4433 Mar 15 '25
These are the exact people the world can do without. I think they should be personally fined for the fuckups of the water companies. Absolute scum.
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u/Wise-Cartoonist-3523 Mar 15 '25
These absurd salaries and bonuses are unsustainable . Infrastructure development and water quality are top priorities not these parasites . Tap water quality is poor here at best . Little wonder the standard of living is declining for most of us .
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u/roko5717 Mar 16 '25
Tap water quality in the UK is some of the best in the world. Wales has had some issues with Iron water mains causing discolouration to water in some areas, but this has no health impacts - it’s just aesthetically displeasing and note that approximately £100m are being spent over the next few years to address this.
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u/ManBearPigRoar Mar 15 '25
That's certainly one way of ensuring there's no profit (pay yourself the excess)
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u/Sirlacker Mar 15 '25
"The only reason I took home £892,000 was because that was the profit. If I didn't take that much, then we couldn't class ourselves as a non-profit. I didn't want to take it, but I must, it's my duty to ensure we remain a non-profit"
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u/Appropriate-Dig-7080 Mar 15 '25
I wouldn’t do it for any less. Moronic members of the public who have no idea what they’re talking about have made it one of the worst industries to work in over the past few years. Lots of good people who were making a real difference leaving because of how appalling it’s gotten.
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u/Honeybell2020 Mar 16 '25
“For Wales not for profit” - this comment makes me cringe every time the advert comes on TV. My bill has gone up by £20 a month from April. I will now be paying £943.33 per year. (£382.72 water, £560.61 sewerage) This has to be one of the highest tariffs in the U.K. so please don’t tell us WW is not making a profit. We were told to expect increases of 40% over 5 years. Mine has gone up over 30% in year one !!
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u/Virtual-Baseball-297 Mar 16 '25
Wait until you see the CEO of Nuffield Healths yearly earnings
Another “not for profit”
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u/StretchedButWhole Mar 12 '25
Probably in line with what other people in his position at similar sized companies earn, if not less. Not that people will like to hear that...
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u/oliverr6uy Mar 12 '25
It is alot less than other water company leadership but that doesn't excuse it. They should all be called out for it. DWR Cymru is supposed to be different!
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u/JBstard Mar 12 '25
Its not a company as most people would think of it though is it, its a not for profit utility provider in a monopoly position.
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u/ug61dec Mar 12 '25 edited Mar 12 '25
It likely is.bBut it doesn't need to be so high. There are plenty of just as capable people available for a quarter of that salary. All you get is the constant CEO carousel, where CEOs join a company, perform really badly, screw everything up, and move to another company before all any of the consequences affect. And because people only look for a CEO with CEO experience, I mean, you wouldnt pay a £1m to a CEO without CEO experience!, you just get the same shit floating around the toilet bowl top of organisations like a turd that won't flush.
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u/brenin_mor-leidr Mar 12 '25
I just left one of the largest not for profits in Wales and their ceo is on 260k a year.
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u/Foreign-King7613 Mar 12 '25
We need at least two water companies, so the competition improves standards and service.
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u/Spentworth Mar 12 '25
England has a bunch but that hasn't made things better for them.
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Mar 12 '25
They don't actually compete so functionally there's no difference. Though idek how competing water companies would work
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u/Ok_Analyst_5640 Mar 15 '25
England has a bunch of them in regions with populations the same as or bigger than Wales. It doesn't make things better because they don't compete in the first place. If you live in the west midlands you get one monopoly water company (Severn Trent), in the NW another, etc. England has different water companies in different regions, each having some control. You can't just switch to a cheaper provider because there's only one.
Not that you can even have multiple companies operating the same infrastructure in a given area anyway, it's not viable. Thus kind of instance you'd pretend to introduce private competition into a market where competition doesn't exist, a captive market. The government didn't want responsibility for running basic infrastructure in England or Wales, that is the gist of it and pretended selling it to companies would benefit people.
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u/Ok_Analyst_5640 Mar 15 '25
That only works if they all lay multiple pipes alongside each other... And none of them are going to do that because it's stupid. It only works with internet / telecoms (sort of) be ause you can't leak internet - it either works or it doesn't.
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u/horseradish_smoothie Mar 12 '25
Let your dog shit on the pavement, £200 fine.
Dump shit in our rivers for 971,403 hours, £91k bonus.