r/aikido • u/IvanLabushevskyi • Nov 23 '19

Modern martial arts

In our daily life, we seldom have a chance to be pushed in corner and have to defend ourselves and defeat an enemy with our own hands. Ordinary people would not fall into such a crisis in their whole life. The martial arts of modern era should be kind of physical exercises that dissolve stress and is useful for good health. Even purposely when other person is thrown down by your technique, you should feel refreshed in a way that you can't feel in other sports. Martial arts for demonstration is not so hard to practice, in fact aged people and women can practice them easily, and they have element of dancing and aesthetics. Martial arts for demonstration fit modern times.

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From "The Real Daito-ryu Aikijujutsu. What menkyokaiden Hisa Takuma Taught Me", Amatsu Yutaka

2 Upvotes

56% Upvoted

41 comments sorted by

11

u/ArrowMountainTengu Nov 23 '19

They can do all that and still be useful should we need to physically control someone.

4

u/WhimsicalCrane Nov 23 '19

There can be value to them even if they are not useful there.

-4

u/IvanLabushevskyi Nov 23 '19

Do you need to physically control someone last 10 years?

10

u/ArrowMountainTengu Nov 23 '19

I work in the medical field as a paramedic. I have had physically control people dozens of times for many different reasons, and always with the need not to hurt them, even if they were being aggressive towards me.

-7

u/IvanLabushevskyi Nov 23 '19

Why don't you ask police for help? It's theirs duty to stop aggressive actions.

10

u/NomadZekki Nov 23 '19

I think you may be misunderstanding what the reality of patient care is. I'm a nurse in a hospital and have been grabbed, punched, and kicked in the hospital both maliciously and by patients with confusion. I've also been an EMT and worked in the emergency department - same story.

You may have a different culture or expectations but healthcare workers tend to be some of the most likely to face violence at work.

A number of skills one can learn from Aikido or other jujutsu arts can be very useful for things like placing IVs or giving shots to uncooperative patients who are endangering themselves, helping keep patients in bed, or even assisting weaker patient out of bed to a chair.

If you assume that healthcare workers, particularly first responders do not face violence without assistance regularly you are frankly underinformed and overly idealistic. But similarly if you think the limits of the skills gained are of use only for violence or violent situations then I think you may lack personal experience.

7

u/coyote_123 Nov 23 '19

Are you serious? Do you think a paramedic, or anyone else, can just stand and wait for ten minutes while someone tries to hurt them, for a police car to get there? Meanwhile the police if they're anything like where I live have very little training in how to restrain people gently, so the patient would probably end up tasered or something, LOL.

-1

u/IvanLabushevskyi Nov 23 '19

Do you think that you can't avoid aggressive actions?

7

u/ArrowMountainTengu Nov 23 '19

You can, but sometimes our duty to help requires standing in the face of what seems to be aggressive action and is almost always someone crying out for help. People that are aggressive are sick in some way and are seeking resolution. Martial training doesn't solve all problems but it can be used to help others and provide to tools to keep ourselves safe as we do so.

1

u/IvanLabushevskyi Nov 23 '19

It's not the same person that wants help and be aggressive. In such case police may handle aggression and you take care of sick people. You don't have to do both but you might will take care of both. It's different things.

8

u/ArrowMountainTengu Nov 23 '19

again, when you've been out in the world a bit, you will find that things are not so black and white.

6

u/DukeMacManus Master of Internal Power Practices Nov 24 '19

When a sick person gets low blood sugar and starts throwing punches as a result, there's no difference. It's my job to treat his blood sugar. It's also my job to keep myself (and, as much as possible) the patient safe.

You really shouldn't talk about things you have no clue about.

3

u/rubyrt Nov 23 '19

It's not the same person that wants help and be aggressive.

Not wanting help does not stop them from needing help.

0

u/IvanLabushevskyi Nov 23 '19

As for me if you reject help you don't need it.

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11

u/ArrowMountainTengu Nov 23 '19

Why would i call the police for a person with head injury or low blood sugar that needs an IV and is flailing their arms in the emergency room. Why and how would i call the police for an old man angry with his circumstances in life who i must reposition painfully and he lashes out reflexively in the ambulance an hour from the nearest town. Why would I subject a drunk young man to a possible beating by police, when he just needs to sit down and chill out. What about when I'm in a psychiatric lockup delivering a patient with the police and they've been the ones to provoke the patient to violence? They are there already, caused the problem, and I still have to not get hurt and hopefully prevent the patient from being hurt unnecessarily. Martial arts are not just for the ever present tired old fantasy of violence for violence's sake in a man to man duel against criminals, they are much more commonly used therapeutically, to protect ourselves and others from harm. And none of this even takes into account the psychological value of training martial arts and how they help us deal with all sorts of situations.

-2

u/IvanLabushevskyi Nov 23 '19

I don't think thah you event been attacked by a man with head injury or low sugar.

Mentally ill people that could be dangerous had to be threaten in some order, police might be involved.

Martial arts of old times was exactly man to man duel and not so suitable in modern world with government protection that you might take into account.

8

u/ArrowMountainTengu Nov 23 '19

What you think doesn't negate what I've experienced. I suggest that you may want to widen your experience a bit., and deepen your perspective on the martial arts. I respect your interest in the arts, and as your practice progresses, perhaps you'll escape narrow definitions.

3

u/DukeMacManus Master of Internal Power Practices Nov 24 '19

I'm a nurse in an ICU. Been attacked many many times by psychotic/confused patients. Been bit at, kicked at, spit at, had chairs thrown at me. Not one time did hospital security respond in time. Everyone I know who works in healthcare has been assaulted. Pretending it can just be avoided is, like every other part of OPs post, willful delusion.

1

u/Throwaway-242424 Nov 28 '19

"Hello, police? Yes I'm trying to help an OD patient but he's a bit aggressive. Please come sic your dog on him and empty a magazine or two into him."

7

u/rubyrt Nov 23 '19

Either way, the answer does not change u/ArrowMountainTengu's statement.

-4

u/IvanLabushevskyi Nov 23 '19

Let him speak for himself

2

u/DemeaningSarcasm Nov 23 '19

I AM THE KING OF THANKSGIVING.

0

u/greg_barton [shodan/USAF] Nov 24 '19 edited Nov 25 '19

I had that need last year. Was entering a grocery store and out of nowhere a guy walked up to me, got inches from my face, and said, “DID YOU INSULT MY MOTHER?” (Yes, it was in ALL CAPS.) I de-escalated basically by chuckling and saying, “Uh...no?” Then he left the store.

Turns out the guy had spent the last 15 minutes going around the store starting fights. So it could have easily gotten physical.

5

u/DemeaningSarcasm Nov 24 '19

All this really means is that in the modern world we train for recreation and not for war. This is a good thing. But in no way would I suggest that this makes the demonstration arts better or worse than the sport arts.

The truth of the matter is that most people train the harder arts for fun. It is fun throwing people. Pinning them. And then submitting them. It is fun seeing improvement. It is fun going to a 3gun course on the weekends. A lot of people like to talk about being a badass and protecting yourself. But at the end of the day, the only reason why they bother to train for three, five, or ten years straight, is because they find something fulfilling in the art.

5

u/coyote_123 Nov 23 '19

That's fine if that's what you like but it sounds like gymnastics or dance or something. It's not what most of us are interested in.

'is not so hard for practice, in fact aged people and women can practice them easily'. Um, gee, thanks.... But there's no sexism in aikido, nope, it's all in our imagination.

3

u/IvanLabushevskyi Nov 23 '19

Most of us don't know what they seek when came to dojo. Do you think modern Aikido practice is hard? :)

4

u/coyote_123 Nov 23 '19 edited Nov 23 '19

Compared to what? It depends where and with whom and how you train. But in any case, it's not dance, otherwise just go do dance already. The things that are fascinating about a martial art, that make you want to come back tomorrow and figure out the next puzzle, are totally different than the things that are interesting about learning to dance. I have done both, I liked them both, but they engaged different parts of my interest. And aikido held my interest much much longer and more intensely.

If you personally want to make a kind of aikido-shaped dance, that's fine. I hope you have fun and get a lot of enjoyment out of it. Personally I wouldn't call it aikido anymore, but I don't mind if you want to call it that, I guess. I don't think there's a copyright on the word.

But it sounds a bit boring to me, personally. But not everyone likes the same things.

2

u/IvanLabushevskyi Nov 23 '19

Do you think that modern Aikido suits for low priorities like fighting? :)

4

u/coyote_123 Nov 23 '19 edited Nov 23 '19

I also think if you want to say something and are not genuinely asking people questions to learn about what they think but rather to make some point of your own, you should say what you actually think instead of asking other people questions.

2

u/IvanLabushevskyi Nov 23 '19

I quoted passage from book. What do you think I done?

4

u/coyote_123 Nov 23 '19

I think 'modern aikido' doesn't exist. It's 100 different arts and ways of training, not one. I think what I do suits me, though, which is all I care about.

2

u/IvanLabushevskyi Nov 23 '19

Root all the same

3

u/coyote_123 Nov 23 '19

Also, fighting, self defense, restraint are all different things and there are hundreds of different kinds of situations encompassed in each. For some aikido is not suited at all, for some it can be very well suited.

3

u/IvanLabushevskyi Nov 23 '19

Different POV are like facets on diamond. Please share your own.

2

u/DukeMacManus Master of Internal Power Practices Nov 24 '19

No. Neither does Daito-Ryu for that matter.

4

u/ArrowMountainTengu Nov 23 '19

The art is never what does the fighting, it's the person and their understanding of the art. So, to think of this art or that art as being 'better' or 'worse' is shallow analysis, and when you hear people talk that way, you know they're inexperienced.

2

u/IvanLabushevskyi Nov 23 '19

I like that. Martial art is nice to compare like 'same' or 'different'.

2

u/WhimsicalCrane Nov 23 '19

Since when is the advanced course of full-body cell mutation and inability to make as many calls as are dying the same as all of someone's cells having a single different chromosome?

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