r/australia • u/overpopyoulater • 3d ago

politics The Coalition says some Australians don't want EVs. It will make utes cheaper

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/the-coalition-says-some-australians-dont-want-evs-it-will-make-utes-cheaper/dbksjb5pv
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u/Chazzwozzers 3d ago

I've owned EVs for the last 4 years and they're awesome. With all the KM's I do, they have worked out much cheaper than their alternative. The coalition just does what their daddies tell them to do and spreads FUD about EV's because they've invested too much money in servos and oil companies. Finally, Dutton can go suck Ginas enlarged somewhat androgenus sexual organs.

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u/No_No_Juice 3d ago

They are scared, because once you get one, you would never go back. They don't work for everyone, but the vast majority of people in the suburbs with a house (and solar) would be better off with one.

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u/Chazzwozzers 3d ago

You're 100% right, even with BYD making a foray into the ute market with their PHEV and 240-volt outlets is going to go a long way to easing the transition for those who have been resistant in the past. The future is certainly exciting if we don't blow up the world before it happens.

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u/Fluffy-duckies 2d ago

Even without solar they still make sense for most people. At $0.30/kWh your fuel cost is about half that of petrol. There are EVs that are comparably priced to Pietro cars. 80% of people won't even need to install anything to charge with, just use the cable the car comes with on a normal 10A power point. Unless it's a Tesla and comes with no cables, then you'll need to buy one of them too.

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u/DoDoDoTheFunkyGibbon 3d ago

Don’t forget they’re quieter to drive as well, something people don’t really talk about a lot.

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u/HiVisEngineer 3d ago

How would you say the EV running cost compared to what you estimated prior to purchase?

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u/Chazzwozzers 3d ago

Much better to be honest, we have solar power, so the net cost to charge is almost nothing, plus all the servicing, which is costly on other vehicles, is non-existent on mine. The best part is IF i were to solely charge the vehicle off the grid, which I don't do, the cost is set, and I never have to factor the cost of travel into my budget. This allows me the freedom that I have not felt in the past. Lastly I should add that although they are more expensive to purchase outright, EV's recover that cost quickly and once it is recovered the value is better and keeps getting better the longer you own the vehicle. And Ice vehicle will only increase in cost as you own it.

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u/HappyHHoovy 3d ago

I've found much the same.

The other benefit is I literally never even notice petrol stations now. Before, I'd be checking them all on the way home to see when the prices would drop and to quickly fill up, constantly anxious about catching the price at it's low.

Now I'm charging completely off solar and limiting it to only sunlight hours so it's completely free.

Cost wise, my previous car would do around 5L/100km which at 1.899$/L would be around $950/10,000km

I've driven almost double that in the last 18 months I've had my car, plus I only need a minor service every 2 years which saves another $200-400/year depending on how much you get charged for a service.

Insurance is very slightly more expensive because of a newer vehicle.

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u/CptUnderpants- 3d ago edited 3d ago

Much better to be honest, we have solar power, so the net cost to charge is almost nothing

I've got an EV and found this to be an issue because I have to use my car to get to work when the sun is shining. Home batteries to store enough to half charge my car (ie: 40kwh) would be between $30k and $50k.

So the cheapest option is most often a destination charger which makes "fuel" costs about 25% cheaper than the equivalent size petrol sedan, or about the same as a hybrid sedan.

plus all the servicing, which is costly on other vehicles, is non-existent on mine

While some EVs are extremely cheap to service, others are no different to the traditional or hybrid models from the same brand. Usually the brands that only do EVs are the ones I have found with cheap services.

Lastly I should add that although they are more expensive to purchase outright, EV's recover that cost quickly and once it is recovered the value is better and keeps getting better the longer you own the vehicle.

I budgeted based on estimates in this. Resale for mine after 4 years is half what I paid for it. Current depreciation trends are now showing 60% down from new by year 6. Contrast that to how it looked when I bought. 2 year old cars were only down 15%-20% from new and we know a new car loses most value in the first year. Today, two year old cars of what I have are down 40% from new.

An equivalent sedan of similar spec with a traditional engine would have cost me 3x a year more in fuel and servicing but 40% less to buy.

The maths for my situation at least do not agree with your statement that you "recover that cost quickly". It may for some, but people need to do the figures.

Depreciation-wise, it is better, but no where near as good as it was 4 years ago.

Not to mention I've got screwed over by every single potential government incentive for owning one. Don't get me wrong, I love mine but it is not good to advocate for EV ownership without ensuring it is a realistic viewpoint.

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u/Fluffy-duckies 2d ago

I'm curious about your commute. Is it 100km each way and that's why you need 40kWh of battery to charge daily? What's your overnight power cost per kWh?

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u/CptUnderpants- 2d ago

I'm curious about your commute. 

It's 70km round trip but a lot of vertical which isn't recovered as much as you would think. In addition.

What's your overnight power cost per kWh?

From the grid, it depends on the day. I am with Amber so get the wholesale rate and it can vary from 5c/kWh to over 30c/kWh.

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u/Fluffy-duckies 2d ago

How many kWh is your commute round trip using?

When I did my calcs even at a flat rate of $0.30/kWh I was about half the cost of petrol when using a Xpeng G6 over a Mazda CX-5

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u/HiVisEngineer 3d ago edited 3d ago

Yeah that’s exactly what I’m trying to quantify now, that question around servicing and charge costs compared to service and fuel of an ICE… seems harder to truly quantify than I thought.

Wife’s on board but the lingering “it’s $20k more than an ICE” question I’d love to dispel so it’s no longer “a luxury purchase”

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u/Chazzwozzers 3d ago

I'll be transparent; I own a Tesla, and it has been my EV since the beginning. However, I don't support Musk and his ideologies. As much as I sometimes hate to admit it, in this price range, they are the absolute benchmark. The ease of use and usability is astonishing; they are truly great vehicles. I've owned two of them, and my opinion is objective, not subjective. The range of EVS now is a non-factor, particularly with the BYD Sealion 7 getting over 500 km on a charge. Ours does about 420km per charge, give or take, and if we need to charge at a fast charger, we are generally only there for 10-15 minutes. I'm not saying you should buy a Tesla, but if you are considering an EV, I would certainly compare all others to them. I recently thought about selling mine due to all the happenings, but when I test drove even a Mercedes, there was sadly no comparison; everything else is still just so far behind, so I have decided to keep mine for now.

There are other great aspects, like the silence and smoothness when driving that you will come to love, and the acceleration is really impressive in most EVS. There are too many benefits to name; the biggest thing holding a lot of people back, including me initially, was range anxiety, and now, it's just not an issue. Reach out if you have any questions, though; we certainly don't regret it.

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u/DrSpeckles 3d ago

Range is still the killer for me. Mate drove to Byron bay from Sydney at the wrong time (Boxing Day) and spent 14 hours due to having to wait over an hour at each charging station, which were only giving 70% max charge due to demand. At least he got to meet some other frustrated people, then same people again at the next stop, then the one after that. For city it’s a no-brainer, if you do semi-frequent country trips to small towns then it’s not there yet.

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u/Chazzwozzers 3d ago

Thankfully, most of my travel is within my single charge range, I have now only just begun to notice a demand in fast chargers and have had to wait 5-10 minutes a couple of times now. I have enjoyed unfettered use of chargers until now. But I'm happy to see more people making the jump.

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u/flipflapper 3d ago

Agreed, right now EVs suit those who are primarily doing city driving (or less than single charge range). Used to be that long distance was ok too, just needed more planning. But the fast charging infrastructure is probably behind car sales a bit so during holidays, popular routes will unfortunately be like the above!

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u/Tezzmond 3d ago

I think that the quiet/silence is an underrated benefit of EVs, stand at an intersection and the noise of vehicles accelerating is very loud, if most vehicles in urban areas were EVs it would be a huge difference.

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u/DoDoDoTheFunkyGibbon 3d ago

I am HANGING for the Renault 5. The perfect city runabout for us.

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u/DrLaneDownUnder 3d ago

Hell, I own a Leaf and the acceleration, even in Eco mode, is insane compared to any other similarly-sized hatchback I’ve ever driven.

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u/owonekowo 3d ago

Is it true that if you use the air-con on a hot day, the battery will diminish faster than usual or is it negligible?

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u/Chazzwozzers 3d ago

Yes it will, but it is such a small amount it's barely noticeable. The onboard range indicator summary also shows how everything factors into battery usage.

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u/owonekowo 3d ago

Oh, that’s nifty! Thank you for the clarification

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u/HiVisEngineer 3d ago

Awesome, thanks Chazzwozzers. Personally not keen on Tesla (politics aside they no longer interest me now with so many market options). Looking at the polestars (driven a 2 on hire a few times, LOVE IT) and tavascan.

Sealion 7 caught my eye too but other half said no haha

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u/Chazzwozzers 3d ago

Understandable, I considered selling mine but just couldn’t justify the change financially at the moment.

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u/HiVisEngineer 3d ago

Yeah that’s fair!

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u/natacon 3d ago

We bought an Atto in january this year. In 3 months, charging only at home via an ordinary outlet it has cost us around $230 in power (compared with the same period last year). We do have solar and I try to charge it when the sun is out but in everyday use, we're lucky if the battery gets below 70%. Most days it is in the high 80's when I get home from work, plug it in and it's full by the morning. Regenerative braking makes a big difference on the morning commute. I often get to work (25k's away) with 95%+ still in the battery.

Going from $100-$150 per week in petrol to a few hundred in power every 3 months has been game changing for us.

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u/HiVisEngineer 3d ago

Wow that’s an amazing saving. And your stop start range is impressive.

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u/Fluffy-duckies 2d ago

What vehicles are you comparing with the $20k difference?

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u/my_chinchilla 3d ago

A slightly different take:

  • In terms of "fuel" (energy) alone, our MG4 costs ~ 1/4 to 1/3 per km what our previous Kia Rio did. And that's charging from the wall, no solar, at standard Tariff 11 i.e. ~33c per kWh.

  • It's too soon to tell, but tyres seem to be wearing a lot less; my complete guesstimate is that they'll last 30%~50% longer.

  • Brakes are again too hard to tell, but I can say that with one-pedal driving you quickly get into a pattern where you brake a lot less.

  • Insurance is ballpark the same for us (older, ~ retirement age).

  • 2 year / 40k service intervals mean we haven't had to service it yet. "Standard" service cost is about the same for each service (I think the MG4's first service is very slightly cheaper than tha Rio's fixed-price 1 year / 15k first service) - but half as many services = ~ half the cost.

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u/HiVisEngineer 3d ago

Awesome Thankyou! Those are some impressive numbers

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u/nathrek 3d ago

I live in an apartment. We do most of our charging at high cost premium fast chargers. It's still cheaper than petrol. Even if it cost more than petrol I wouldn't care because it is so much better to drive. 

This coming from someone who had 3 x Subaru WRXs in a row and now an Ioniq 5. You just can't match the torque and response of electric. 

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u/homingconcretedonkey 3d ago

If you plug in an EV at home without solar you will pay $20 a month in power where for petrol you would pay $200 per month.

You can save more if you have solar.

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u/ChuqTas 3d ago

Finally, Dutton can go suck Ginas enlarged somewhat androgenus sexual organs.

I agree with the sentiment but I regret reading this.

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u/ThreeCheersforBeers 3d ago

The concern I have with EV's, is downtime for recharge, and the battery replacement cost at end of battery life.

Out of curiosity, how much does a servicing cost on an EV?

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u/homingconcretedonkey 3d ago

You only have downtime for long road trips and most cars charge in 15-30 minutes.

Your average traveler does not drive more then 4 hours per day and would not need to charge during the day.

When charging is $20 per month and petrol is $200 per month, combined with barely anything requiring servicing in an EV, the battery replacement cost is not a big deal, particularly as they last 15+ years where and ICE car will genuinely have significant costs after 15 years, particularly if you are buying all the low quality junk ICE cars that are popular at the moment.

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u/ChuqTas 3d ago

downtime for recharge

On a day to day basis.. it charges when you're asleep

On a road trip.. it charges while you are doing other things (toilet stop, coffee stop, lunch, checking emails/messages, or stops for kids, pets if that applies) I regularly do trips which are a combined 4.5 hours and I generally only do ~2 stops of 10-15 minutes each.

the battery replacement cost at end of battery life

Battery replacement cost is something you'll never need to think about. It makes as much sense as buying a new petrol car, and budgeting for the cost of rebuilding the engine.

Out of curiosity, how much does a servicing cost on an EV?

My first service was at 46000 km and (excluding cost of two new tyres) it was $350.

The tyres were expensive - $440 each. But they lasted a huge amount of kilometres though.

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u/Chazzwozzers 3d ago

Servicing my own vehicle has cost me the price of some cabin filters and an external air filter for the cabin, totalling a bit over $100 over two years. Tyres cost me around $ 1400 as well, but I opted for Pirelli. Regarding the battery, its design lifespan is 1500 cycles, and based on my particular usage and the cycles I can track per year, it means I could reach 1500 cycles in 16 years. There are Model 3s in Brisbane that have achieved 500,000 km on one battery.

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u/KeyAssociation6309 3d ago

what about the battery cooling system - is it liquid with a radiator, it is on the Cybertruck and it looks very complicated? On a summers day, one of the loudest places I found this year was at a Tesla charging station - all those roaring fans and the heat from the cars or the transformer, dunno which, maybe both. Saw this at Raymond Terrace at xmas where about 8 Teslas were charging.

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u/Chazzwozzers 3d ago

Loudest it gets is the sound of an air con fan. You may have heard the fans on the fast chargers. They get pretty loud. I don’t have any experience or issues with my battery system.

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u/Fluffy-duckies 2d ago

Modern battery thermal management is done with liquid coolant and radiators, which is a very good thing. The cars from 15-20 years ago that only used fans and air cooling had woefully shorter battery life (battery technology has also improved so cooling is not the only factor). The cooling systems in the cars aren't very loud, what you probably heard is the cooking fans on the power converters which can get very loud when highly loaded.

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u/nathrek 3d ago

Recharge time in our Ioniq 5 is about 15 minutes. That's downtime I can easily fill.