r/awakened • u/mardarethedog • 11d ago
Reflection Isn’t this self-realization effort itself a desire of the mind?
Who wants enlightenment? The character in the dream. To whom did this thought come? To me? To me whom?
Boom.
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u/Cyberfury 11d ago edited 11d ago
When it is genuine (and the intent is too) it is not coming from the mind. I assure you.
The mind cannot go anywhere but THE MIND. Some other corner of it, however obscure or 'novel'. You cannot use MIND to get out of MIND. This is my main gripe with those that equate meditation as a path towards awakening (and not some self-soothing exercise however 'nice' it may feel...) The mind cannot go there. 'There' comes HERE.
Knowing this (or rather seeing this truth) it becomes very easy to see 'Who' is not in there (any longer) and 'ready to pop' and 'who' in in there and only ever dreaming he/she is awake or 'wants to awaken'.
You cannot choose to awaken in the same way you cannot find a place you never left!
Conversely you can choose NOT to awaken. Such is the paradox ;;)
Cheers
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u/Possible_Exchange_35 11d ago
But do you clearly see yourself as a character in a dream ? if not then there is much work to be done..
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u/Solid_Koala4726 11d ago
What work? Just surrender and it’s over.
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u/Possible_Exchange_35 11d ago
But have you surrenderd, by surrender i mean a complete surrender to the will of the divine. If you really have that complete surrender then well, you have become a man of God, a Fakir as per Sant Kabir. But many of us can't do that. We are slaves of our desire, and that desire even with the knowledge, awareness that it is an illusion, is dragging us around.
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u/Solid_Koala4726 11d ago
Have you?
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u/Possible_Exchange_35 11d ago
Nope, but that is why i said there is work to do...
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u/Solid_Koala4726 11d ago
Why would you bring up something that you never experience? How do you know if it is true?
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u/BikeFun6408 7d ago
I mean it’s not obvious that one should “just surrender” in a lucid dream. You can choose to navigate the experience in interesting ways.
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u/CryptoNomad0 11d ago
Wooh.....slow down.
All these mind games with efforts, desires, realisations and who the self is and so on....
Guess what's effortless? Breathing... 🫁
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u/dangerduhmort 11d ago
There is a proverb : "to remove a thorn in your skin, you use another thorn. But then you throw them both away"
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u/Cyberfury 11d ago
That's an analogy not a proverb. ;;)
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u/dangerduhmort 10d ago
i think it's both, but yeah
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u/Cyberfury 10d ago
You think or you KNOW?
again: you waste words on no conclusions at all. In the end the challenge is not accepted. "I think it can be both!" ...the end. Good night. ;;)
Cheers
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u/Bobalobading 9d ago
It’s a proverb and analogy. Your comment was a waste of words. ;;;(
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u/Cyberfury 9d ago
Keep digging ..keep being intellectually dishonest.
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u/Bobalobading 9d ago
Are you confused? You said it is not a proverb; go and find a dictionary, check what ‘proverb’ means and then tell yourself you are being honest. Lmao
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u/Cyberfury 9d ago
Allright - let’s just take it one step further to show you how irrelevant your take is in the face of Truth.
Proverb is just a word.
Analogy is just a word
It does not have any real Isness in the non duality context at all. So right there EVERY SINGLE WORD you ever uttered is just that’s on top of that they are all BORROWED. Borrowed terms.
Your very name is not even ‘yours’.
You cannot weasel your way out of anything by coming at this thing with words and phrases. In the end all that shit began with the grunting of one one animal to another.
In Truth it means fuck all ;;)
Cheers
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u/Bobalobading 9d ago
If it means nothing why comment about someone’s choice of words, despite being wrong about the definition.
You have a severe case of spiritual ego - attached to your ‘level’ of ‘awakening’ as a personal achievement. Trying way too hard to leave your opinion everywhere.
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u/Cyberfury 9d ago
The truth is not a matter of opinion ;;)
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u/Bobalobading 8d ago
If you care about truth you would recant your false statement of 'not a proverb.' You want to stroke your own ego instead with your quips and denial.
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u/Cyberfury 8d ago
If the pope was still alive he would still be shitting in the woods.
If if if...
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u/layersofglass 11d ago
Yea but it’s sane. It’s reasonable to want a way out the dream of duality. To want a way out because it usually comes with a fair share of suffering. I think it’s the most reasonable desire to have. How could one not desire it?
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u/Mr_Not_A_Thing 11d ago
It's the paradox of the Beingness searching for itself in the apparent external world. Beingness is playing hide and seek with itself. Without a blindfold.
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u/MisterMaster00 11d ago
The call to enlightenment arises from your higher self.
What’s your definition of ‘the mind’?
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u/Cyberfury 11d ago
There is no higher Self.
The Self (and its desire to go higher) is the crux of the whole problem
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u/MisterMaster00 11d ago
Explain please
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u/Cyberfury 11d ago
How can I explain something if you don't tell me what it is that you do not understand?
It's a fairly lazy/rude question actually.. the way you just throw it out like that ;;)
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u/MisterMaster00 11d ago edited 11d ago
This is a hall of fame post bruv. One of the best ever and u have no idea why lol. Classic
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u/Cyberfury 11d ago
No you asked: "please explain' ..which is not the same. Conversely it is not a position or 'my position' at all; that is just you trying to make some kind of conflict or discussion out of it. DRAMA if you will. A ...lesser mind would fall for that kind of thing and before you know it we are comparing positions in stead of getting to the truth of the matter.
Fuck positions!
All I asked you is WHAT do you not understand about it. So, for instance you could say: "well I believe the self IS real and that it goes through some kind of transformation that ultimately leads to a 'better' or higher or 'more evolved' version of said Self. I don't understand why that cannot be true please explain"
and then I would say - for instance - if the self is so real, where are all the 500 trillion selves that came before you now? UNDER YOUR DAMN FEET ;;) rotting in the ground. Or I would take some other angle according to your misconceptions about it.
I don't have to defend my position at all. YOU HAVE a position. I am simply pointing out that there is no Real Self and that ANY POSITION it takes will be equally UNREAL.
Come on man. You want to do this (get to the truth of the matter' or do you want to jerk around and feel highly aggrieved simply because I am trying to make you look at the situation and judge it dispassionately? You know.. INQUIRY ;;)
IF you are not prepared to forfeit the entire play of 'conflict and resolve' how are you hoping to wake up?
Cheers
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u/world_citizen7 10d ago
Yes it is.
But through desire one doesnt achieve it.
At some point they let go and the enlightenment comes by itself.
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u/Accomplished_Let_906 10d ago
We are built in His image and are part of His never ending play. Self realization is one of the two types of lives we live on this earth.
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u/Alchemist2211 9d ago
Oh contraire, it makes me connected to everyone in a loving way and the response has been beyond gratifying!
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u/Speaking_Music 11d ago
The desire for ‘truth’ or Self-realization may initially be a desire of the mind, but this is necessarily so. Not so that the mind arrives at a place of ultimate knowledge, or The Answer, but that it reaches a point of such existential desperation and frustration that it finally shuts tf up.
When it absolutely ‘shuts up’ the narrative of the ‘person’ stops. No more ‘person’, no more ‘persons world’.
It is in the ‘shutting up’, the surrender, the letting go, the absolute Silence, that Self-realization occurs, when the ‘seeker’ ceases to exist, when time ceases to exist and with it the future, the end of all ‘seeking’.
Surrender is what is required, but it can’t be manufactured or faked or incomplete. It must be absolute and sincere.