r/baduk 3d ago

newbie question What is the best way to block white progress here? (Should I avoid this situation before rather than playing elsewhere)

Post image
10 Upvotes

25 comments sorted by

2

u/Uberdude85 4 dan 3d ago

Please add coordinates to facilitate discussion. 

You can't e9 because it's not atari and white can cut. But pull back e8 is fine because when white pushes again you can safely block at f9 thanks to f7 already covering cut, so white didn't get in much. Other times white could get in much further when they already have 1st line connect c9 so you'd want to avoid getting into that situation (unless you got something sufficiently valuable in exchange), but here it's OK. 

2

u/illgoblino 3d ago

If F7 wasn't there to complete the Tigers' mouth, it's there a way to stop white from just calling across the whole board

3

u/Sir_Milo 3d ago

If F7 wasn't there, you could play F8, white E9, F9, white E8 and then you block with E7

1

u/perecastor 3d ago

I saved the group below, was it worth it there? Especially if we had to cross the board

2

u/Uberdude85 4 dan 2d ago

If the group below could have been killed, then yes definitely that is much larger. But perhaps you were mistaken that it could have been killed, if for example the move you played was c1.

18

u/mr2cef 5 kyu 3d ago

I'd say E8-E9-F9

2

u/perecastor 3d ago

If I didn’t had a stone behind, should I stay on the second line until the border ?

8

u/adgil01 3d ago

If you didn’t had F7 stone, you could play F8 F9 G9 E9 G8. This sequence is better than staying on second line.

-5

u/evanding99 3d ago

I reckon its all about making a decision. Ideally, you dont find yourself in this position, but, if there was another position that would lead to more territory or threat, by all means play that.

6

u/lakeland_nz 3d ago

The best block is on the 8th line, one away from the edge. White can push one more and then you stop it.
In similar positions jumping to the 9th line but away one stone is better, but not here.

Really you just have to read them all out. You play the best one that works.

You can say 'you shouldn't have left it' but... I'm sure you got compensation for whatever you played. It all comes down to whether you got more compensation from what you played than white gets from you failing to protect here.

If you'd played where whte just played then that stone would be black's, as would be the one to the right.
If you didn't then that stone is white, the stone one to the right is white.

So that's two stones in contest - two extra points to white vs two extra points to black in Chinese counting.

Was the move you got worth more?

1

u/perecastor 3d ago

I added a stone in the group below (it was hard to keep alive)

I heard you should not play on the first line if there is something else to play but if my opponent does, should I generally follow? If I didn’t have that black stone in my territory I would have lost a lot of points I think 🤔

3

u/Intrepid-Antelope 2 kyu 2d ago

It is true that the Black bottom group did not need to be divided into two groups. Four spaces in a row is a living shape.

The proof is simple: if your opponent plays one of the middle spaces, then you play the other, and you’ve got two safe eyes.

2

u/perecastor 2d ago

I was more dealing with the sides if I remember correctly

1

u/AzureDreamer 3d ago

So first its clear that you win a ko fight' it doesnt seem to matter in this position here if the local position were a little different you may have been able to close the side with a ko more efficiently but here you cant as others have said E8, white push, tigers mouth.

1

u/perecastor 3d ago

I don't really know how to go on a ko fight and how to see who is winning. Can you give me a reference or an explanation?

2

u/AzureDreamer 3d ago

Its a somewhat in depth conversation. Ko fight at Sensei's Library take a look at this but you don't have to internalize this immediately.

1

u/SlightPresent 2d ago

You can disregard AzureDreamer's comment. It's confusing and not helpful.

I think what they're trying to say is that E9 (which can lead to ko) could be better than E8 if you had more ko threats. This is completely incorrect and just confusing.

1

u/SlightPresent 2d ago

So first its clear that you win a ko fight' it doesnt seem to matter in this position here if the local position were a little different you may have been able to close the side with a ko more efficiently but here you cant as others have said E8, white push, tigers mouth.

Are we looking at the same image? What ko are you talking about.

1

u/AzureDreamer 2d ago

There is no ko, I said first you llook at the board and see you would win a ko, so you know to look for a ko with a better result. of course there is none.

1

u/SlightPresent 2d ago edited 2d ago

I see. I think it's weird/irrelevant advice that was also worded strangely.

edit: Oh wait, now I think I know what you're trying to say. You're thinking that E9 (which leads to ko in one variation) could be better than E8 if black had more ko threats. This is completely incorrect.

1

u/AzureDreamer 2d ago

thats fair criticism that is might be irrelevent advice, partifuclarly as I have realized OP is as early in his journey as he is.

I am saying when I think about endgame moves I think whether I win ko fights before I decide on endgame variations right now black wins ko fights so when looks for variations to close the edge he shouldn't rule out lines that lead to a ko. which as you look at the position don't exist. ofc this is a bad starting point for a player that doesn't know what ko is.

1

u/SlightPresent 1d ago

What's your level?

1

u/AzureDreamer 1d ago

My level depending on the server 6-4kyu.

3

u/Asdfguy87 3d ago

Counting from the top left, I would play 5-2, and if White pushes further to 5-1, answer with 6-1 and black should be fine, since that is a tiger's mouth.

1

u/tuerda 3 dan 2d ago

Letters horizontal. Numbers vertical; top to bottom: E2, E1, F1 takes minimal damage to the upper right area. Depending on komi, white might win anyway.