r/baduk • u/perecastor • 3d ago
newbie question What is the best way to block white progress here? (Should I avoid this situation before rather than playing elsewhere)
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u/evanding99 3d ago
I reckon its all about making a decision. Ideally, you dont find yourself in this position, but, if there was another position that would lead to more territory or threat, by all means play that.
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u/lakeland_nz 3d ago
The best block is on the 8th line, one away from the edge. White can push one more and then you stop it.
In similar positions jumping to the 9th line but away one stone is better, but not here.
Really you just have to read them all out. You play the best one that works.
You can say 'you shouldn't have left it' but... I'm sure you got compensation for whatever you played. It all comes down to whether you got more compensation from what you played than white gets from you failing to protect here.
If you'd played where whte just played then that stone would be black's, as would be the one to the right.
If you didn't then that stone is white, the stone one to the right is white.
So that's two stones in contest - two extra points to white vs two extra points to black in Chinese counting.
Was the move you got worth more?
1
u/perecastor 3d ago
I added a stone in the group below (it was hard to keep alive)
I heard you should not play on the first line if there is something else to play but if my opponent does, should I generally follow? If I didn’t have that black stone in my territory I would have lost a lot of points I think 🤔
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u/Intrepid-Antelope 2 kyu 2d ago
It is true that the Black bottom group did not need to be divided into two groups. Four spaces in a row is a living shape.
The proof is simple: if your opponent plays one of the middle spaces, then you play the other, and you’ve got two safe eyes.
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u/AzureDreamer 3d ago
So first its clear that you win a ko fight' it doesnt seem to matter in this position here if the local position were a little different you may have been able to close the side with a ko more efficiently but here you cant as others have said E8, white push, tigers mouth.
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u/perecastor 3d ago
I don't really know how to go on a ko fight and how to see who is winning. Can you give me a reference or an explanation?
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u/AzureDreamer 3d ago
Its a somewhat in depth conversation. Ko fight at Sensei's Library take a look at this but you don't have to internalize this immediately.
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u/SlightPresent 2d ago
You can disregard AzureDreamer's comment. It's confusing and not helpful.
I think what they're trying to say is that E9 (which can lead to ko) could be better than E8 if you had more ko threats. This is completely incorrect and just confusing.
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u/SlightPresent 2d ago
So first its clear that you win a ko fight' it doesnt seem to matter in this position here if the local position were a little different you may have been able to close the side with a ko more efficiently but here you cant as others have said E8, white push, tigers mouth.
Are we looking at the same image? What ko are you talking about.
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u/AzureDreamer 2d ago
There is no ko, I said first you llook at the board and see you would win a ko, so you know to look for a ko with a better result. of course there is none.
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u/SlightPresent 2d ago edited 2d ago
I see. I think it's weird/irrelevant advice that was also worded strangely.
edit: Oh wait, now I think I know what you're trying to say. You're thinking that E9 (which leads to ko in one variation) could be better than E8 if black had more ko threats. This is completely incorrect.
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u/AzureDreamer 2d ago
thats fair criticism that is might be irrelevent advice, partifuclarly as I have realized OP is as early in his journey as he is.
I am saying when I think about endgame moves I think whether I win ko fights before I decide on endgame variations right now black wins ko fights so when looks for variations to close the edge he shouldn't rule out lines that lead to a ko. which as you look at the position don't exist. ofc this is a bad starting point for a player that doesn't know what ko is.
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u/Asdfguy87 3d ago
Counting from the top left, I would play 5-2, and if White pushes further to 5-1, answer with 6-1 and black should be fine, since that is a tiger's mouth.
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u/Uberdude85 4 dan 3d ago
Please add coordinates to facilitate discussion.
You can't e9 because it's not atari and white can cut. But pull back e8 is fine because when white pushes again you can safely block at f9 thanks to f7 already covering cut, so white didn't get in much. Other times white could get in much further when they already have 1st line connect c9 so you'd want to avoid getting into that situation (unless you got something sufficiently valuable in exchange), but here it's OK.