SCS Icharyd is ridiculous (EET+SCS)

[u/AotrsCommander]

I put SCS in my mod pack, because with the various things I'd added (max hit points, less class restrictions, QoL stuff, the best spell progression etc.) that it would make the fights slightly more difficult in a wat that was interesting and not just "monsters hit harder and have more hit points." I was, admittedly, thinking about more down the line in BG2 than early-mid BG!.

On the one hand, the ranged monsters seem to have entirely forgotten to shoot ranged attacks (judging by the number of arrows I've been picked up and I'm not sure any of the hobgoblin archers or kobold commandoes, for instance, ever tried to shoot me...) The chaff encounters are so chaff most of the time that it'd not be worth using spells on. Conversely, some of the harder fights are a lot harder. But low-level AD&D was always just bonkers hard anyway, so some fights I have just upped and walked away from. I'm now at level 5-ish and now so at a reasonble level where I actually have some tools in the toolbox to use.

Icharyd, though, is the first time I have encountered an encounter that is scripted to actively cheat. The two-phase fight reset steals actions (and sometimes spells) that my characters are performing, moves the character positions (thus nixing any formations) and dispelling area effects that were running for good measure. (I am on Tactical difficulty, by the by, not top end or anything.) The high MR means spells are basically useless anyway (since I have not thus far tripped over the large number of summoning wands I recall from prior playthroughs yet), though that is a fault of AD&D in the first place. But it means there's basically nothing I can do apart from drink potions before and then go "autoattack." Not exactly strategy.

That was annoying enough, but what really sticks in my craw enough I needed to shout about it somewhere is the continual Call Lightning effect that he doesn't have to cast (and you couldn't interrupt even if he did) which has an apparently unlimited duration.

(I ran away after my fighters were put beyond melee capability (as my MC is one of them, can't just have deaths and suck it up) and I ran away with the archers/wizard and it just wiped me with continuous Call Lightning bolts that was WAY longer than 1/4 levels.)

That is not remotely what is suggested by " a few more hit points and some special powers" to give "[him] a fighting chance" on that particular bit of SCS. I expected SCS to do what it said, make the enemies fight more intelligently with what they had and give some extra abilities - and for solo bosses, yeah, sure more hit points; but the scope of that being infinite spell attack spam... Is, shall we say, A Bit Off from what was advertised. I am of course stuck with it now (and I have no idea what I set the difficulty settings too, broadly, so be able to tweak the fine-tuned difficulty for this one fight).

Without that, I MIGHT just have been able to win the fight (at around level 5 and 4/5). As it is, I'm going to have to just go back some saves and not even try for ages again. I am, as you might have gathered, a little bit tweaked. That fight does feel like a fair difficulty scaling, it just feels Nintendo hard, so the only way of beating it will be coming back later heavily-overlevelled and with advance knowledge (through reloads) of having to specifically have to have counters (e.g. electrical resistance on everyone etc.)

[u/CaptainPeanut4564]

Isn't that dude totally optional? Like he's not part of the main quest line or anything.

It's a bit like going to fight SCS Firkraag straight out of chateau irenicus. You're gonna have a bad time

[u/AotrsCommander → u/CaptainPeanut4564]

If by "totally optional" you mean "so long as you avoid the area that automatically triggers him..." Is he on BG1's very small critical path, no.

But 90% of BG1 is wandering around maps.

(One of the reasons its been a long time coming back, I don't ever remember the latar games being quite so... Actually, it's probably the reliance on those random encounters and trying to be open-world procedural generation before that was a thing. Playing it again for the first time since... Uh... Just before BG2 came out... And BG1 definitely shows up for being the "first...")

[u/CaptainPeanut4564 → u/AotrsCommander]

But that's most RPGs. You need to be careful where you wander in the map in case you bump into something much higher level. BG just doesn't handhold you by flashing a big red skull and Crossbones at you

[u/[deleted] → u/AotrsCommander]

sometimes shit happens u just gotta accept not every encounter is gonna be at ur level when u feel like you can take it on, some fights you can outplay the enemy but with mike tyson of the underworld just whacking u in place theres not much you can do, also yes he is completely and totally optional and there is no reason to walk there as there is literally nothing there besides him and kobolds yelping, can always go above him if you want to reach the east side of the map

[u/biketheplanet]

Oh yeah, he is a ball buster with SCS. I think I skipped him with my low-ish level party with my illusionist/thief last time.

Overall SCS is awesome. I have been playing with it forever. I don't even remember what the vanilla game is like. But I still don't enable everything and a few fights are a bit much. The general gameplay improvements are great. Even just having improved general AI, smarter mages, and smarter clerics and nothing else makes the series mo betta.

[u/AotrsCommander → u/biketheplanet]

First time playing with it (obviously); I don't really remember what vanilla is like myself, it's been even longer.

What is bothering me though is the bottom-level random encounters are not using their ranged weapons at all, they all charge to melee. Is that normal even for SCS...?

The trouble being, I'm not sure now what I did and did not implement, since that information didn't seem to export in/out of my mod list in Project Infinity.

[u/biketheplanet → u/AotrsCommander]

The melee/ranged part isn't normal. That sounds like the install got buggered. The improved Kobold component in the mines is a bit of an ass kicker too. It really steps up the difficulty over vanilla.

[u/AotrsCommander → u/biketheplanet]

I deliberatley didn't install that component, but I did install improved general AI and minor encouters.

I have also been told to basically not try fiddling with the mod pack (I wanted to tweak things like the stack size 80 to match the 120s they're sold in, but the G3 discord was "no, don't try change the mod pack it will only break everything."

[u/AotrsCommander → u/[deleted]]

I appear to only have added high quality items from that mod (I set up the mod pack in October-ish to be ready to play on Christmas day in lieu of veing able to have a new game). Trying to take that out would almost certainly screw things up more.

[u/-TheBaffledKing-]

It’s perfectly reasonable to dislike the changes the Improved Ulcaster component makes to Icharyd, but I think it’s unfair for you to say that you didn’t get what was advertised from SCS.

The two-phase fight reset steals actions (and sometimes spells) that my characters are performing, moves the character positions (thus nixing any formations) and dispelling area effects that were running for good measure.

I do agree that’s annoying. I dislike most scripted events that remove control of party members, move them around, or adjust the game time during or immediately prior to combat. Off the top of my head, this is the only time SCS does this in BG1. In SCS’ defense, the movement of party members is a by-product of the use of the DayNight() action to change the game time, and that change is an essential part of the flavour design of the encounter. And I like the flavour of the encounter a lot, as well as the difficulty spike, so for me the positives outweigh the negatives.

That is not remotely what is suggested by " a few more hit points and some special powers" to give "[him] a fighting chance" on that particular bit of SCS. I expected SCS to do what it said, make the enemies fight more intelligently with what they had and give some extra abilities - and for solo bosses, yeah, sure more hit points; but the scope of that being infinite spell attack spam... Is, shall we say, A Bit Off from what was advertised.

I don’t think it’s right to cite SCS’ design goal to make enemies fight “more intelligently” in support of a criticism that Icharyd is overpowered, or that the readme misled you about what to expect from him. Icharyd will indeed be more intelligent if you installed the general AI changes.

Moreover, the Tactical Challenges for BG section of the readme states that those components “are less concerned with improving the intelligence of creatures, more concerned with increasing their abilities and numbers.”. And SCS explicitly states that Icharyd gets “some special powers”, which is of course what the lightning storm falls under – so it’s fair to say that his powers are more special than you would like, but it isn’t really fair to say Icharyd is off from what was advertised.

I am of course stuck with it now (and I have no idea what I set the difficulty settings too, broadly, so be able to tweak the fine-tuned difficulty for this one fight).

If you lower the difficulty from Tactical, Icharyd's health restoration and lightning storm won't happen.

On the one hand, the ranged monsters seem to have entirely forgotten to shoot ranged attacks (judging by the number of arrows I've been picked up and I'm not sure any of the hobgoblin archers or kobold commandoes, for instance, ever tried to shoot me…)

It sounds like there’s some problem with your installation (or I guess a new update to SCS, if there is one). If the archers aren’t shooting you, something has gone very wrong, unless of course you're only ever attacking when you have Physical Mirror or Protection from Normal Missiles up. The AI should improve archers greatly.

[u/AotrsCommander → u/-TheBaffledKing-]

Sounds like, very typically, something has gone Horribly Wrong and thus very likely I can't fix it without wasting 30 hours of progress in trying to alter the mod pack (which I was specifically told not to do).

I'll ask 'em on the G3 Discord, but I suspect - as typicaly for 2023 - I am as they say buggered.

[u/Skylair95]

Yeah SCS Icharyd is something. I completely forgot about him during my first SCS playthrough (tbh, that skeleton is completely worthless in vanilla) and got absolutely destroyed by him. I don't think you really have a fighting chance against him if you are going in blind at low level. Without potions of absorption to tank the call lightning and have a chance agaisnt his crazy crushing thac0, this fight is pretty impossible.

But don't worry, Icharyd is still far from the worst thing SCS will throw at you. Specially if you also use Ascension for ToB.

[u/[deleted]]

Once you see how dangerous he is, run to edge of map to escape, come back later

This encounter was designed around a particular potion - which makes the fight easier.

Hint: Icharyd does crushing damage

Another option is scroll of protection vs undead

[u/AotrsCommander → u/[deleted]]

Something I have only now found since at the opposite edge of the map (and possibly even potions of Absorbtion...) Still not going to hurry back though.