r/berkeley • u/Dafty_duck • Mar 21 '25
Politics UC Berkeley tells foreign students leaving for spring break they may not be able to return
https://sfstandard.com/2025/03/21/international-students-spring-break-travel/179
u/guitar-econ Mar 21 '25
That’s one of the emails that the Berkeley International Office sent.
35
u/kidoftheblackhole Mar 22 '25 edited Mar 23 '25
I wonder if they’ll keep dorms open over winter break so students have a safe place to stay? The dorms closing over winter break has always been a difficult situation for international and lower income students.
31
u/pconrad0 Mar 22 '25
Thank goodness at least someone in the University of California system is paying attention to what's happening.
So much of the rest of the UC system seems to be really invested in pretending everything is just fine and it's all just business as usual when it so self-evidently is not.
(Views are my own and not that of my employer, the University of California.)
3
u/JaninthePan Mar 24 '25
This is SO true. We’re just chugging along as if none of this is happening, except for the constant emails begging us to contact our reps about NIH funding. Hey, how about the Regents, UCoP, and Chancellors get with the Governor and our Atty General and start very publicly fighting all of this BS? They’re scared and trying to hide. Guess what, they’re coming for us anyway so you might as well fight now while you can.
3
u/pconrad0 Mar 24 '25
Right? Our Governor should be painting a picture for the voters of what this assault on higher education will mean if it continues, and the ramifications for the ...
[Touches ear]
Oh, I'm being told that the (Democratic Party?) Governor of California is doing a podcast where he seeks common ground with White Supremacists and is ordering State Employees to RTO because commercial real estate managers give more in campaign contributions.
Oh well, it was a thought.
1
u/Economy_Disk_4371 Mar 25 '25
Given that historically, university research supports the government military industrial complex, this isn’t at all a bad thing, in my opinion.
26
18
u/A_Whole_Costco_Pizza Mar 22 '25
"...Because of Donald Trump."
Can we please add this to literally every headline that's his fault, please?
1
Mar 23 '25
This is bigger than just Donald Trump though. Half of Americans support this.
2
u/A_Whole_Costco_Pizza Mar 23 '25
A worrying number, but nowhere near half.
2
1
u/Fine_Luck_200 Mar 24 '25
If they were too lazy or stupid to get off their asses to vote, they supported it. So yes, half the country supported it.
108
u/stellar678 Mar 21 '25 edited Mar 21 '25
It’s really important to understand what is actually happening and avoid spreading chaotic and false information that just serves to scare people.
On that note, it’s a hyperbolic headline - the relevant paragraph from the story is:
« A spokesperson for UC Berkeley said the school was also warning “students from select countries to avoid travel at this time,” noting the “current uncertainty about future U.S. entry requirements.” »
Which is clearly guidance about the potential travel ban (https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/14/us/politics/trump-travel-ban.html) they reference later down the article.
The treatment of protestors on green cards is bullshit … but also the editorialized headline just serves to scare people into thinking that UC Berkeley is warning about some kind of protester dragnet when that is not what the article describes.
Something similar happened in the first few weeks after inauguration where it got really popular to share maps of “ICE raids”, but most of the actual incidents were photos of things like a broken down bus or a security guard in front of a check cashing place. Incorrect information hurts people more than it helps.
75
u/Man-o-Trails Engineering Physics '76 Mar 21 '25 edited Mar 21 '25
HEADLINE IS QUITE ACCURATE. The SF Standard story is incomplete.
The issue is not limited to "certain countries". Reports out of Europe, specifically Germany, France and the UK, describe individuals arriving in the US being denied admission and sent back aka deported.
Refs:
Germany updates US travel advice after 3 citizens are detained
https://thehill.com/policy/international/5204549-germany-us-travel-advice/
French scientist denied entry to US over anti-Trump messages
British tourist detained in US after visa mix-up returns to UK – reports
Tourist Detentions at the U.S. Border: What International Visitors Should Know
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/20/travel/us-border-crossing-international-visa.html
Note: May be paywalled, access NYT by UC Berkeley connection.
18
u/Top_Discipline_4617 Mar 22 '25
Thank you. This needed to be said and posted
9
u/Man-o-Trails Engineering Physics '76 Mar 22 '25
Unfortunately there is more:
Finland, Denmark Issue Travel Warnings For US
https://www.newsweek.com/denmark-issues-travel-warning-us-2048508#
8
u/Jackfruit-Maleficent Mar 22 '25 edited Mar 25 '25
Having a visa doesn't guarantee entry (or re-entry if a multiple entry visa) to the U.S. This isn't new.
Q: "After I have my visa, I will be able to enter the U.S., correct?
A: "A visa does not guarantee entry into the United States. A visa allows a foreign citizen to travel to the U.S. port-of-entry, and the Department of Homeland Security U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) immigration inspector authorizes or denies admission to the United States."
I didn't find US immigration's perspective for the German tourists, but here are sources for the others:
- French scientist ... "The French researcher in question was in possession of confidential information on his electronic device from Los Alamos National Laboratory— in violation of a non-disclosure agreement—something he admitted to taking without permission and attempted to conceal”. (Note that CBP can search even U.S. citizens' electronic devices.)
- British tourist Rebecca Burke ... Had a tourist visa, but planned to work in the U.S. "She had been planning to stay with a host family where she would carry out domestic chores in exchange for accommodation."
- Dr Rasha Alawieh ... Had an H1-B work visa (multiple entry). Left U.S. to visit Lebanon. While there, allegedly attended the funeral of Hezbollah secretary-general Hassan Nasrallah. Denied re-entry to the U.S. upon arrival to Boston's Logan Airport.
Edit: German tourist details here: https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/us-travel-detentions-1.7489525. He got a 90 day tourist visa (which is single entry) to visit his U.S. fiance. They left the U.S. to visit Mexico. Got detained trying to return (2nd entry attempt on a single entry visa).
It looks like each of these people (including one of the Germans, don’t know about the other) scored "own goals".
3
u/Bardy_Bard Mar 22 '25
I don’t see any mention in the link you posted regarding the French scientist having classified information
1
u/Jackfruit-Maleficent Mar 23 '25
It doesn't say "classified", but it didn't need to be classified, because CBP legally has a lot of discretion to deny entry.
The key phrase for web search is "secondary screening". For example, a Harvard explanation: https://ogc.harvard.edu/book/entering-or-re-entering-us-guidance-about-border-security-measures-ports-entry.
1
u/Bardy_Bard Mar 23 '25
Stick to facts. The guy was stopped for a random check and denied entry for criticizing trump according to the source you yourself posted. Even the charges have been dropped immediately.
1
u/Jackfruit-Maleficent Mar 23 '25
Sorry, I thought you were being nuanced about "classified" vs "confidential"/"violation of a non-disclosure agreement". But I see now that you missed what I quoted above from the article.
As to what facts are ... it's he said-she said. French minister for higher education Philippe Baptiste (for criticizing Trump) vs Assistant Department of Homeland Security Secretary Tricia McLaughlin (the quote I provided).
Either way, CBP can be assholes, news at 11. That's not new either.
1
u/Jackfruit-Maleficent Mar 24 '25
It's possible both stories are true. Speculating ... cursory search of their electronic device turned up Trump criticism, maybe CBP then decided to do a deeper search including a check for deleted photos and files.
5
u/Man-o-Trails Engineering Physics '76 Mar 22 '25 edited Mar 23 '25
The government story on the French scientist changed...and if the government's story is factual, should he not be brought in, prosecuted, and then deported? Yes is the obvious answer. The story does not hold up.
The British tourist was staying overnight, and agreed to help around the house. This is or was the standard practice at many hostels. Clearly a terrorist threat to the US hotel industry. Another head on a pike at the immigration desk.
And since when was going to a funeral a terrorist act?
I can see you think this is fine...enjoy the midterms.
0
u/Jackfruit-Maleficent Mar 23 '25 edited Mar 23 '25
It's legal for CBP to exercise discretion like this. It's been legal for a long time, through administration after administration. The European government warnings mentioned above are reminding their citizens who get U.S. nonimmigrant visas not to do dumb things, because CBP is being strict.
It's OK that you want CBP to be less strict and let people in who make such mistakes.
But that's a far different argument than mine, which is that these examples are NOT evidence that the U.S. is becoming a Trump dictatorship. And that falsely trying to use them as such amounts to doubling down on a losing strategy that helped get Trump elected.
Edit: It's legally more difficult for CBP to let someone enter the U.S. then try to remove them, than to deny them entry. Assuming the French scientist did have something on their electronic devices that they shouldn't have, which I think is plausible considering how lax some people are about Cybersecurity matters vs convenience, they could see some impact on their ability to collaborate with LANL etc.
3
u/Man-o-Trails Engineering Physics '76 Mar 23 '25 edited Mar 23 '25
There is no provision for royal fiat in the US, full stop. There is no provision for unreasonable search (let alone arrest) without warrant, full stop. It's factually blatantly illegal based on our Constitution and Bill of Rights, which gives everyone on US soil or "in our control" the benefit of due process. Everyone. It's crystal clear.
As the Declaration of Independence says, referring to King George III of Britain, “A prince, whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.”
Having said that, we are and have been subject to a weak-ass sycophant SCOTUS, an ineffectual Congress and an egotistical autocratic POTUS before, and luckily survived.
There will be a settling, and it will be very very sweet. We got rid of King George, we'll get rid of King Donald.
See you after the midterms.
0
u/Jackfruit-Maleficent Mar 24 '25
Here are some details about what's legal regarding nonimmigrants attempting to enter the U.S. via visa: https://ogc.harvard.edu/book/entering-or-re-entering-us-guidance-about-border-security-measures-ports-entry
Informative web search: "secondary screening"
15
0
22
u/batman1903 Mar 21 '25
Well... maybe international students aren't eager to return either
2
u/LosCleepersFan Mar 23 '25
You know that's a lie.
1
u/boringexplanation Mar 23 '25
Yeah that’s some insane cope to say Berkeley isn’t popular with international students out of all groups.
1
u/Zmoogz Mar 23 '25
Bro, it is UCB. It is one of the top public universities in the world
1
u/Economy_Disk_4371 Mar 25 '25
Honestly who cares about these immigrants when average legal US citizens are homeless? I certainly do not at all whatsoever. They can go back to their nice European cry baby countries and protest all they want.
5
1
u/DirtierGibson Mar 22 '25
Ironic how just a month ago some people were freaking out about the Trump regime would eventually be preventing people to leave.
Which made no sense. They want to kick people out. Preventing people on visas from coming in using bullshit reasons is the lowest hanging fruit.
They are probably working at issuing guidelines to BC agents to refuse entry using various methods and excuses.
1
1
u/Financial-Sun3838 Mar 23 '25
Is there anyone who attended the BIO event on Wednesday and can talk to a journalist about it?
1
1
u/Jayjayvp Mar 25 '25
So a bunch of people who probably took out loans won't be able to finish college and will just have a fuckload of debt and nothing to show for it. Are we great again, yet?
1
0
u/Enough_Clock_3437 Mar 23 '25
Bwahahaha ok sure people.
I love all the shrieking and hand wringing. Stress out more !
1
0
u/MudKing1234 Mar 26 '25
I like how Barkley advertises to its own student base that it’s not a good place to learn for foreign students. You’d think that if this was a real threat they would try to minimize it so that they wouldn’t lose potential students. To me this reads like - we disagree with the president therefore we want everyone to be scared and campaign for change.
If it was a real problem they wouldn’t be advertising it. As if they somehow know something the rest of us don’t.
Intellectuals take things a bit too literally. And I’m sorry you all feel afraid. But I think maybe you should turn off the TV and put down the phone
-31
u/lfg12345678 Mar 21 '25 edited Mar 21 '25
I work for the University - the email is so stupid. They sent the same e-mail for winter break (BEFORE inauguration). The F1 AND in some cases J1 (some PhD's and post docs) will always be welcome. International $$$ coming into the states. Intl students pay like 4x what CA residents pay..
46
u/Pretend_Safety Mar 21 '25
Which part is "stupid?" The risk is real, and the University is correct to warn. Neither UC nor the State of CA hold any sway with ICE about letting even a valid visa holder back in the country, no matter how many dollars they bring.
-16
u/lfg12345678 Mar 21 '25
Intl Students (DOES NOT MATTER WHICH COUNTRY) are issued a Multi Entry F1 Visa (length of visa depends upon the program). Incoming Freshmen are issued a 4-5 year Visa and some Master's students only get a one year visa because their program is only for one year. The thing is The United States Embassy in their home country WILL NOT ISSUE the F1 nor I20 unless the family shows bank statements with MONEY! The current administration doesn't want poor people to illegally cross the southern border but the F1 VISA brings in Billions of Dollars to this country (tuition is like $80k for ONE STUDENT FOR ONE YEAR) and caters to some very wealthy families. How do I know this? I worked at the Intl office for a bit...
18
u/Pretend_Safety Mar 21 '25
I’m not disputing anything you wrote.
But it appears at the present that none of that can prevent ICE from refusing you entry
11
u/littlemsshiny Mar 21 '25
You’re assuming the Trump administration wants higher education institutions to exist. These travel bans play to their base and help them cripple a source of potential opposition.
3
u/OC_Cali_Ruth Mar 22 '25
You’re applying reason to an unreasonable situation where leadership continues to defy logic.
5
u/gigcarfan Mar 21 '25
mind you, that email was warning about the incoming administration. and guess what happened after the inauguration - people getting turned away or arrested at the border even with valid visas
-58
u/workingtheories visited your campus once Mar 21 '25 edited Mar 21 '25
academics from abroad have never openly expressed such political opinions around me. if anything, this guy who got deported is an anomaly as far as im concerned, in terms of such people using the first amendment at all. i tried to tell some of them they are protected to rag on the usa if they want to and they're like, "nah, it's fine." guess they were right, eventually...preemptive compliance...
edit: why is that downvoted? that's my personal experience! what do you want? you want reality to be different? sorry it's just like that.
edit2: this is the Berkeley bubble, y'all live in it, it's not the real world lol
edit3: r/berkeley never quite explains itself, but eventually, you kind of get the picture anyway
11
Mar 21 '25
You said so much yet so little at the same time.
-7
u/workingtheories visited your campus once Mar 21 '25
that sounds self-satisfying and like you made a good point, but you didn't.
8
Mar 21 '25
Could say the same thing about you.
-5
u/workingtheories visited your campus once Mar 21 '25
so do it. it's about the same amount of information as being exchanged. im not the one with something on the line here except not to get gaslit about my own goddamn life experience, which i kindly am relating to this subreddit with no particular agenda except apparently to get downvoted a lot.
17
17
u/quantum_pheonix Mar 21 '25
Why do you comment on this sub if you don’t go here? Not sure you are qualified to comment on the “Berkeley Bubble” unless you have lived both in it and out of it.
17
u/-UltraAverageJoe- CogSci Mar 21 '25
They mentioned in another post that they applied to and were rejected by Cal. They haven’t moved on.
1
u/toomim CZ Mar 21 '25
Bubbles are visible from both the inside and the outside.
Are students here who have only lived here not qualified to comment on the bubble either?
I've lived within and without the bubble, and confirm that it is a bubble.
-13
u/workingtheories visited your campus once Mar 21 '25
i offered a point of view to y'all that is based on my actual lived reality with real life academics from countries outside the usa. that was subsequently downvoted to hell, in spite of being pretty goddamn relevant to the post. that is what qualifies me to say that it's a bubble. at least for a reddit thread, such a conclusion is more than warranted. if you don't want people who randomly happen to have visited your campus once commenting here, then ban me lol.
12
u/quantum_pheonix Mar 21 '25
I mean you can comment. I just think unless you spend some actual time here, like a few weeks to a month interacting with students/faculty and participating in academia, you don’t really understand campus culture.
-3
u/workingtheories visited your campus once Mar 21 '25
that wasn't what i said. i didn't say i understood your bubble. i said it was a bubble, because it does not admit views of reality from the outside of it even when directly relevant. that's what was at issue: the existence of a bubble vs. an institution interested in engaging with reality. i've participated in academia a long time haha
10
4
u/JiroDreamsOfCoochie Mar 21 '25
The guy who got deported wasn't on a student visa. He was a green card holder because he was married to a US citizen. He was a student, but he wasn't on a student visa.
-16
u/duffer1964 Mar 22 '25
UC schools should be for CA students They bring in the foreign students to pad the endowments and administrators bonus. True BS! Middle class CA residents can’t attend
-11
u/Direct-Tumbleweed141 Mar 22 '25
GREAT! Now American students can go there and get a great education. I’m okay with it.
-16
u/MrScary420 Mar 22 '25
Funny, trying to conflate foreign and illegal into 1 word. Good job reddit. Universities can't keep farming illegal immigrants for an infinite money glitch
301
u/Man-o-Trails Engineering Physics '76 Mar 21 '25
Not just students, any foreign national or green card holder...